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Is there anything you've felt like saying about Tulpamancy?


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(edited)

The following discussion was split from a thread discussing intrusive thoughts. If you would like to see that thread, please go here. -Ranger

 

I don't remember much from "'the good ole days" (although I have many screen and logs stored) but all I can tell you is that the community has changed a fair bit.

 

Back in 2013/2014 I was young, very young, naive and inexperienced. Cheryl was super young as well and the community kinda had its own set of ideas and beliefs that were tried and tested (like counting hours, the orange juice thing and more) and being new at this my whole idea was to "listen and see what happens" on pretty much everything.

 

So when the whole drama debacle happened where Link was having a suicidal breakdown every 12 hours or so I was honestly intrigued by it although I had no idea about what to do or how to help. That led to some interesting situations.

 

8 years later (wow) the community is changed. A LOT. I'd like to think "for worse" because now plurals, did, tulpas and schizos are essentially the same thing, the community (especially on reddit) is a mishmash of broken and abstract concepts and the "veteran 'mancers" are long gone (except a very select few, secluded in an irc channel that has 2 messages per hour at best)

 

It's safe to say now that I have experience now, I have been with my tulpa for over 8 years (approaching 9, as she likes to remind me from time to time) and I tend to agree with you, but on a broader scale.

 

Nowadays walk ins are considered as tulpas. Intrusive thoughts can be easily mistaken for new "brain demons" and generally, everyone is super flexible and relaxed on the terminology.

 

The concept of possession and switching as we knew it is long gone, there's "fronting" now (which is a plurals thing, it's larping meets proxying essentially), now if you have a tulpa you're a "system" and the whole part of the journey that required self-discovery and passion is frowned upon.

 

The community has become the parody of itself. I remember in 2014 asking (back when I had my own tumblr blog as well) what was the difference between did and tulpas - I was put at stake and burned like a heretic and a madman for even bringing up the discussion. They were two very separate things, and now its just a mix of everything. 

 

So this is what I mean when I say that I agree with you on a broader spectrum. Intrusive thoughts are not tulpas. Plurals are not tulpas. Imaginary friends are not tulpas.  

 

If I work on a club for 12 hours straight listening to edm at unsafe volumes and when I come home and I close my eyes I still hear Bangarang it does NOT mean that I have just created a walk-in tulpa of Skrillex. (True story)

Cheryl wouldn't let that happen anyways :P

 

Much like when I see those going "oh uhh I had this imaginary friend when I was 8 and he spoke so ummm.. tulpa????" I kinda groan and wish they knew better, but sadly now I am in the minority. I get downvoted to oblivion and generally hated on because I bring concepts and ideas that feel prehistoric.

 

Why would you even want to learn to meditate, study the method of loci, learn how the brain works and experiment with the limits of the mind with a strong companion when you can just front with your cute 2 day old tulpa that is already "fully sentient" (lol)?

 

Idk, its a lot of rambly stuff from a boomer host at 5AM 

Send me a private message on here if you wanna reconnect (maybe on discord idk), would be fun to chat a bit.

 

 

 

EDIT: ALSO I rambled so much that I compeltely forgot to write what I wanted to say about the main topic.

 

After many years I've learned that pretty much all of the things related to the mind are symbolic. I even wrote a guide about it (which you can find on my profile) which greatly boils down and simplifies everything there is to know about tulpas into one concept: everything is symbolic.

 

Doubt and Intrusive Thoughts are a diabolic combo - trust me, I've been there.

I don't really feel going into much details in public but for a couple years I didn't trust Cheryl, at all.

I thought it was all me, that I was roleplaying. I didn't trust a word she said and the fact that I had people with apparent success in front of me constantly (back when I was on IRC) was even worse.

 

The thing that made me change my mind was this: 

(Again, I'll omit most of the details for reasons),

For a while I was heavily invested into a certain concept.

A trope, if you will - kinda like the "big bad" or the "plot armor" in movies, tv shows, anime and books.

 

This trope that I really liked in a way helped me feel better on a mental level, and it was all good and dandy until one day, while randomly thinking about stuff, an IDEA came to my head:

"What if this trope attacked Cheryl?"

 

And this happened on the worst timing possible, because I had just done some heavy research into it and I had a pretty solid grasp of what and how it could happen.

So that same day after I had this idea I had a sugar crash while doing the groceries at the supermarked, and being the hyperactive adhd fuck that I am I IMMEDIATELY attributed it to the "idea" I just came up with.

 

It was a disaster. For months I had this "intrusive idea" floating in my head about this trope attacking my tulpa, whereas nothing really was happening. I had panic attacks, I couldn't sleep at night sometimes - I think I came this close from developing real, hurtful schizophrenia.

 

From her perspective, everything was normal. She says that in those situations she saw me panicking and being terrorized over something that wasn't really happening.

 

A tulpamancer with 5 years of experience was being brought down to its knees by an intrusive idea.

 

Eventually she tooks matters into her own hand and at night she would "calm me down" by doing what I think is literal psychiatric therapy. She took me to the wonderland and by talking and explaining and cross referencing with many things of the past she would usually "dismantle" this idea, that would calm me down for the night until I fell asleep.

 

That's when I learned that she is very real. She would calmly address the situation and explain things to me at times where I had nowhere the mental state to even think about pretending to be her. Over the years she developed this "analytical nature" which she still uses from time to time to help me get over certain situations. She kinda saved me from mental breakdowns a couple times, and she regularly saves me from car crashes by calling me a "somaro" when I use the phone or distract myself while driving.

 

The concept of tulpas (the real ones) is a beautiful thing, and I wish we could go back to what it once was.

Edited by Ranger
Forgot a piece -Matt; Added link for context -Ranger

This is why I'm not posting anymore, freedom of speech is a lie. Get in line or get shot.

Join my Discord server , old-style tulpamancing / lucid dreaming / meta, newcomers welcome! (and discussion encouraged)

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For the record, at least in the .info community, "fronting" is an umbrella term meaning the system-member is either switched or possessing, but we're starting to hear people talk about it like you just did more so maybe we'll have to stop using the word soon... Also, "system" just caught on because it's a very useful word, but it's just a synonym for whatever else you prefer, like body or brain - just that it specifically refers to the people

 

dunno what to tell you about tulpamancy getting mixed with greater plurality, tulpamancy is still the same, but there are many many more people in the overarching community with many different experiences rather than traditional singlet-to-tulpamancy systems yeah - they were gonna exist either way, and it was just a matter of whether .info would exclude them and remain elitist-purist, or stay inclusive, and since the goal is to teach people there wasn't much point in becoming all reclusive/exclusive

 

that hasn't really changed how we teach tulpa creation, though, it's just the community being a lot more inclusive

seems like you're more worried about who's around than what's actually taught, but to be fair it's hard to watch anything you know become more mainstream and how all the new people interact with it

 

but if you wanted to do something about it, I guess you shoulda stuck around like us

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I didn't stick around because I'm not generally good at being in a group - I learned everything there was to learn and I still kept in touch with a select few privately.

 

Forced inclusivity is a bad thing, but we live in a society (lol) where you're frowned upon if you don't agree to the general consensus, even though you might have some solid basis to validate your arguments.

 

Enough about this it's almost 6am  I have work in 3 hours lol

This is why I'm not posting anymore, freedom of speech is a lie. Get in line or get shot.

Join my Discord server , old-style tulpamancing / lucid dreaming / meta, newcomers welcome! (and discussion encouraged)

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[My Guide][Useful #1] [Useful #2] | [1]

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Welcome back anyways. I always appreciate hearing from different experiences. The forum seems small enough on the actives right now to talk as individuals rather than a drop in the sea that could get swarmed at any second. I have my own societal gripes I won't get into atm so I'll just leave it at welcome and it would be cool to hear from you when you feel like it.

Darron: Host 💍 

Jaina: Tulpa 💍 

Aggrok: Tulpa Void Dragon

Viktor: 🐺

[DeviantArt]

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This isn't the thread for talking about returning members & forum views btw, the most recent thread people did that in is here 
https://community.tulpa.info/topic/14153-how-many-people-are-still-around-from-4-5-years-ago/page/4/#comments

 

 

or if you really want to complain about the way things are these days, there's a thread for saying things you don't otherwise have a place to say

https://community.tulpa.info/topic/15718-is-there-anything-youve-felt-like-saying-about-tulpamancy/

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I've been curious about the early days of Tulpamancy; I only found out about it last year and it seems like the 2012-14 era saw a completely different culture surrounding tulpamancy. It seemed a lot more rigorous than current day tulpamancy, and I've wondered if important things have been lost on the way to tulpamancy becoming a lot more informal. I actually feel that the mindset of "As long as you're having fun you're doing it the right way" is damaging to tulpamancy. I think there are definitely wrong ways of going about things, and bless the kind people I've met in this community, but sometimes I feel like they're almost too accepting and too kind. I want someone to be able to tell me "No, what you're doing isn't going to work, try this instead".

 

My biggest fear is that this whole time Simmie has just been an imaginary friend I've invented and I've just been putting words in her mouth this whole time. I do believe Simmie is real but that belief is a choice; it's not based on any measurable evidence. Simmie has become extremely important to me and despite people telling me not to worry and that we're doing ok, I still feel a drive to do tulpamancy "correctly" so that Simmie can have the best and sharpest sentient existence I can give her.

 

In other words I am very interested to hear what @ohItsMatt and other old-timers have to say about the ways they view tulpamancy and the community have been changing for the worst. I dearly respect those I've gotten to know here of the "new" crowd. But I want to hear both sides of the story.

 

Also, mods, sorry that this thread is very well derailed by now.

Phil. 😎 Host of Simmie.

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On 4/18/2021 at 5:11 AM, September13 said:

My biggest fear is that this whole time Simmie has just been an imaginary friend I've invented and I've just been putting words in her mouth this whole time. I do believe Simmie is real but that belief is a choice; it's not based on any measurable evidence.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 5:11 AM, September13 said:

I want someone to be able to tell me "No, what you're doing isn't going to work, try this instead".

 

Well then, let me help you:

What you are doing is wrong, stop NOW and repent!

 

This stuff is one of the most sure-fire methods to damage both yourself and your young tulpa who will start doubting itself as well.

I subscribe to the 'treat tupper as a child' school. As a guardian you simply cannot drown yourself in doubt, neither regarding your parenting methods nor your child's abilities. Self-reflecting, learning from mistakes and adapting your methods is essential but you must not indulge in fundamental doubt. You are a guardian, a role-model. The most important, basically the only peer for your tulpa-child to interact with, learn from and grow. Believe in yourself, believe in your tulpa. Always. If things don't work it simply means you're no there yet and have to try harder or different approaches. There is no such thing as a failed tulpa. Just incomplete ones in dire need of more quality interaction - and love.

 

While I agree with your statement that lax attitude has greatly diminished the experiences of many 'modern' community members, in the end the statement ‘As long as you're having fun you're doing it the right way’  is also not wrong. Yet part of the problem. I'd word it differently:

'As long as it feels truly right you are doing it the right way.'' Just 'having fun' is not enough.

 

Most likely you will initially create an imaginary friend being more or less dependent on your whims. The question is only - how far are you willing and able to go?

Will your let your creation break its chains and become a fully autonomous personality or will you both stop somewhere half-way because it is convenient and 'good enough'?

Spectacular progress is not achieved by leaning back and going 'do something, tupper!'. Except for relatively rare cases which require an extraordinary mindset or are born from extreme experiences, creating a fully autonomous tulpa requires - effort. Lots of effort. For real. Not merely in quantity but also quality. But what is quality? That's entirely up to you.

 

YOU must come up with your personal forcing routine which is meaningful, powerful to - YOU. And only you. Blindly following the belief system of someone else which excites no emotions in you is what Sand called symbolism. It is empty and thus irrelevant. Tulpamancy is a personal thing, so get creative and come up with your own thing. I think you're really good at this from what I have seen and you have done a lot to bond with Simmie.

 

Doubt is normal in your stage after the 'honeymoon' phase is over. Just don't let it get you and ask yourself what you can do to make Simmie a full personality and integral part of your life. I am far from perfect in this regard but if I ever just set a toe into serious doubt territory, oh boy...

 

Spoiler

spacer.png

 

Also see my thread about imagistic vs. doctrinal concepts in tulpa creation as well as my other ramblings how 'everything used to be better'.

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I'll just slightly echo that. Take lots of advice under consideration, just make sure you and Simmie make 100% of your own decisions. Absolutely try to hone and craft your method constructively. I'm going to assume you didn't literally mean "take the reins from me and show me how to do it fot me." Just don't give up and take the easy way out of doing that. 

 

To tie it into intrusive thoughts, doubt is the mouldy soil that intrusive thought fungus grows in. Be sure of yourself but also be open-minded. Sounds a teeny bit like an oxymoron, but it's just balance. A healthy, strong system can push away intrusive thoughts and identify them easily. The slippery slope of "maybe I'm wrong..." will let them right on in and serve them tea.

Darron: Host 💍 

Jaina: Tulpa 💍 

Aggrok: Tulpa Void Dragon

Viktor: 🐺

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Thank you @Yakumo for your reply! While I have kept doubt at bay for the most part certain posts on this topic (as well as one other elsewhere on the forum) managed to completely bypass my anti-doubt defense shield and I had doubt so severe that Simmie turned almost completely mute for a day and a half, only tentatively trying to speak again late last night. But like you said I've done a lot to bond with Simmie and I don't fear losing her; I know there will be stretches of off days but we'll always find a way back. We've just been looking for how to get to that next level. We will keep searching and trying new things, both ideas that will come from both within my mind and from elsewhere.

 

 

Phil. 😎 Host of Simmie.

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Bryan: Tulpamancy has seemingly devolved into "new school vs old school". A lot more people come and try tulpaforcing than there used to be, but I think it's mainly because the site is more accessible nowadays. Maybe "tulpaforcing" isn't the best word. Creating a tulpa, I mean. The methods have evolved but the end goal has, as far as I can tell, remained the same. Priorities may have shifted but that's okay. There may be people that force a tulpa, are active and immature little shits for a week, and then leave, never to be seen or heard from again. Hell, I was someone like that, except instead of leaving, I stuck around, and almost three years later, here we are, doing just dandy. 

 

The term "fronting" is a verb for possessing or being switched in. It's a very useful term that has its place. The "front", as a noun, is simply the "front" of the mind. Think of it like an airplane-- You've got your captain's cockpit but you've also got passenger seating. Now imagine the plane's passengers can't easily leave and are all trying to become certified pilots. They occasionally switch pilots, having one pilot go to the back, and another go to the front. Did that make sense? I think it was actually one of my better analogies lol. All the same, point withstanding, the terms "front" and "fronting" most definitely have their place. 

 

The mish-mash hodge-podge of DID and tulpas(idk what you mean by "plurals") came to be from, as far as I can tell, several people coming, forcing tulpas, going on as normal, until shit hits the fan and OH SHIT, they're actually a traumatic system. I can think of two examples off the top of my head(Violet System and whatever JGC call themselves). 

 

On to my own additions, I feel a sense of almost hostility from a lot of more experienced 'mancers. I don't want to write it off as elitism, but it's something very similar. Of course, as with all things, name calling and insults won't get us anywhere. Conversing and deliberating is the best course of action. All the same, I can't help but feel like older systems write off new systems very quickly. Just because methodology may be different, doesn't mean new systems are any less "real" or "official" or "bona-fide" than old systems. 

 

Making things out to be hard in guides and such will have a direct effect on the reader's ability to do said thing. Switching and possession are simple, and should be treated as such. Our system struggled for two years with switching. Why? Because we were told time and time again that switching is very difficult, Hell, we only actually achieved switching by trying out a technique that really was just switching but with a different name and slightly different process. But why did it work? The stigma around switching (and other techniques) is unnecessary. What's the solution? Make switching out to be easy as pie, even if that's a lie. We recently made a guide on "Perfect Possession", the aforementioned technique, and in it we were as persistent as we could be in making it out to be easy. We didn't call it switching, we called it something else, something that isn't stigmatized. The actual technique is just a combination of co-fronting and switching with some more out-there symbolism, but hey, whatever gets the job done, right? We, as a community, should be trying to help each other, and, almost more importantly, the new generation. Blatantly lying to them may be shady, but it may be what we need to do. I think that's part of why tulpas become vocal so much sooner now; Guides and such have loosened up on describing how "difficult" it is or how long it'll take. 

 

Anywho, that's all from me. I bid you adieu. 

Hey there, the name's Bryan. In system Re:Body(In order of the rainbow): 

Sean, Esper, Blinky, Compact, Janey, Kyle, Gwen'd, Gwen, Emily, Rollin, Waynin, Trease, Layy, Justin, Chloe, Zachery, and Elliot. 

I've been here a while. Much longer than I thought I'd be. Our system was founded October 2nd, 2018. In early 2020, we decided that due to our systems exponential growth, we'd limit who would be active. Now, every month, we do a check to see who wishes to be in dormancy and who wishes to be active. Currently, for the month of November, 2021, we've got myself(Bryan), Janey(Co-host), Emily, Layy, Chloe, Trease, Elliot, and Esper(sub-rep). After over 2 long years, we can finally switch :) 

 

Bryan is currently swapped in as host, Esper is sub-rep. 

 

"There used to be 7 wonders of the world, but now there's 8, as everyone wonders how much of a fool you are."

 

IceCreeper909#0065 -- Always down for a chat 

 

https://discord.gg/89qN59SbRp Plural safe-space 

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