anashyean

i keep subconsciously sliding back into front if i dont put 100% attention on being switched out, how to stop this?

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[Fish] What you are experiencing is something that I experience normally. My hosts call it full body possession. I can feel like I'm totally alone, typing like this, and then suddenly my mind drifts and I lose the front. Gray ends up gaining control for absolutely no reason. Different people have called this switching or possession, so watch out for that.

 

This doesn't matter so much for me because I'm happy with what I can do with this, but it made my other host Ranger really upset because he would lose control of the body during class and whenever he wanted to space out and relax. He decided he wanted to learn how to "switch", and eventually he figured it out. In this new state, he not only has full control, but he's more sensitive to bodily sensations like weak pain and can watch TV without struggling or losing control.

Without learning how to "switch", Ranger would describe going to class as fighting Gray away from the front. He would lay down triggers or reminders to wake himself up, he would ride out moments he felt like he was blending with Gray, and he would tell Gray to "go to sleep" to try and reduce Gray's interference. Avoiding activities like watching TV, playing certain mindless activities, playing video games, etc. all helped him keep the front. Controlling the body for long periods of time also helped.

Ranger wrote a quickie guide on how to "switch" on Discord, but it's not really in-depth:
 

Spoiler

[Ranger] The method we use:

1) Consent. I ask if Cat consents to switch (out) and she asks me if I consent to switch (in). If there is any uncertainty, we discuss it before moving onto the next step. (We also do it the other way when I switch out)
**edit: By focusing on each other, we tend to dissociate at this step. Our visualization also tends to be sharper than normal.
 

2) Confirmation. I tell myself "I am the host, I am one with the body, I am switched-in". The order doesn't matter and you don't have to use the word "host", just some phrase to tell yourself that you're switched-in. I also like to imagine my form filling the body, but that makes me feel better, I don't think it's required. Another optional thing is before this step, Cat will imagine walking away as if she were one of my other headmates.
 

3) Association. I focus on what the body is feeling. I think about what is touching my hands, if I am in any pain, how dry my mouth is, are my clothes too tight, etc. This helps me stabilize the switch.
 

After that, I'm switched-in. I believe the actual switch happens around step 2, but sometimes it seems to happen around step 1 or 3. There isn't a click to tell you the switch was successful, and for us this doesn't feel different from possession immediately.
 

Once I'm switched-in, I start to notice little things. Cat didn't steal the front from me. I stubbed my toe and it hurt! I don't feel like I have to fight Cat. etc.

Once you do this, you may notice these small things or you may not. Cat and I suspect we practiced this a few times and then had one experience where we noticed a change. Give yourself an hour or two for the switched-in headmate to feel around. Even if you guys don't feel confident in your switch, do the same process anyway to ensure you guys have good switching hygiene. It may take a few tries before you guys notice a change.

 

On 2/28/2020 at 4:10 PM, anashyean said:

if im in a state to easily dissociate, we find it much easier to stay switched. but most of the time im not able to easily dissociate and not in an environment where i can easily meditate.


[Fish] We find talking to each other can cause us to dissociate. If you are in a busy place, focusing on your headmates can make it easier for you to forget about the environment around you. Gray has managed to dissociate by talking to my headmate Hope while on a crowded train. He used sunglasses though, so using a blindfold or something can help.


Sub. Rep., Spirit, Gerodious, Dark Gray, Fernardo, Jasper, Hope, Moltosha, Blue, Evergreen, Fish, Red Gray, Chrome, Bune, Exabier, Duck

Gray/Cat_ShadowGriffin- host, Ranger- basically host
[Click Here!] [We have an ask thread now!]

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On 3/2/2020 at 3:54 AM, Shadow System said:

[Fish] What you are experiencing is something that I experience normally. My hosts call it full body possession. I can feel like I'm totally alone, typing like this, and then suddenly my mind drifts and I lose the front. Gray ends up gaining control for absolutely no reason. Different people have called this switching or possession, so watch out for that.

 

This doesn't matter so much for me because I'm happy with what I can do with this, but it made my other host Ranger really upset because he would lose control of the body during class and whenever he wanted to space out and relax. He decided he wanted to learn how to "switch", and eventually he figured it out. In this new state, he not only has full control, but he's more sensitive to bodily sensations like weak pain and can watch TV without struggling or losing control.

Without learning how to "switch", Ranger would describe going to class as fighting Gray away from the front. He would lay down triggers or reminders to wake himself up, he would ride out moments he felt like he was blending with Gray, and he would tell Gray to "go to sleep" to try and reduce Gray's interference. Avoiding activities like watching TV, playing certain mindless activities, playing video games, etc. all helped him keep the front. Controlling the body for long periods of time also helped.

Ranger wrote a quickie guide on how to "switch" on Discord, but it's not really in-depth:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

[Ranger] The method we use:

1) Consent. I ask if Cat consents to switch (out) and she asks me if I consent to switch (in). If there is any uncertainty, we discuss it before moving onto the next step. (We also do it the other way when I switch out)
**edit: By focusing on each other, we tend to dissociate at this step. Our visualization also tends to be sharper than normal.
 

2) Confirmation. I tell myself "I am the host, I am one with the body, I am switched-in". The order doesn't matter and you don't have to use the word "host", just some phrase to tell yourself that you're switched-in. I also like to imagine my form filling the body, but that makes me feel better, I don't think it's required. Another optional thing is before this step, Cat will imagine walking away as if she were one of my other headmates.
 

3) Association. I focus on what the body is feeling. I think about what is touching my hands, if I am in any pain, how dry my mouth is, are my clothes too tight, etc. This helps me stabilize the switch.
 

After that, I'm switched-in. I believe the actual switch happens around step 2, but sometimes it seems to happen around step 1 or 3. There isn't a click to tell you the switch was successful, and for us this doesn't feel different from possession immediately.
 

Once I'm switched-in, I start to notice little things. Cat didn't steal the front from me. I stubbed my toe and it hurt! I don't feel like I have to fight Cat. etc.

Once you do this, you may notice these small things or you may not. Cat and I suspect we practiced this a few times and then had one experience where we noticed a change. Give yourself an hour or two for the switched-in headmate to feel around. Even if you guys don't feel confident in your switch, do the same process anyway to ensure you guys have good switching hygiene. It may take a few tries before you guys notice a change.

 


[Fish] We find talking to each other can cause us to dissociate. If you are in a busy place, focusing on your headmates can make it easier for you to forget about the environment around you. Gray has managed to dissociate by talking to my headmate Hope while on a crowded train. He used sunglasses though, so using a blindfold or something can help.

i dont really understand what youre trying to say, im the host and i keep sliding back into front when trying to be switched out

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, anashyean said:

i dont really understand what youre trying to say, im the host and i keep sliding back into front when trying to be switched out


[Fish] During our full body possession, my host does what you do, she can accidentally slide to the front. I don't usually have trouble with it when I'm typing, but I bet if I sat down to draw something, I would lose the front to her.

Ranger's solution to this problem was to learn how to control the body in a different way, what he and Cat call switching.

[Cat] I used to think of myself as "front-stuck" for a long time because I would accidentally take over a lot. It hit a point where Ranger was better at keeping me at bay to where he could talk to other people without losing the front, but we found the best solution was to learn switching. Fish listed off Ranger's strategies for keeping me from stealing the front.

 

[Ranger] During possession, I do all of the work to keep Cat from sliding to the front. With full body possession, the goal is for Cat to be quiet and not pay attention, with me doing all of the thinking. If I am struggling to keep the front, I am usually fighting Cat's minimally conscious thoughts, and if I were to make Cat aware of what was going on, there's a good chance she would slide even closer to the front. As a result, I learned that Cat was incapable of keeping away from the front by herself.

 

In some cases, there was nothing I could do to keep Cat from taking the front. If she didn't like what I was doing or felt physically uncomfortable, she would easily take the front from me despite the fact she wanted nothing to do with the front.

Edited by Ranger

Sub. Rep., Spirit, Gerodious, Dark Gray, Fernardo, Jasper, Hope, Moltosha, Blue, Evergreen, Fish, Red Gray, Chrome, Bune, Exabier, Duck

Gray/Cat_ShadowGriffin- host, Ranger- basically host
[Click Here!] [We have an ask thread now!]

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7 hours ago, Shadow System said:


[Fish] During our full body possession, my host does what you do, she can accidentally slide to the front. I don't usually have trouble with it when I'm typing, but I bet if I sat down to draw something, I would lose the front to her.

Ranger's solution to this problem was to learn how to control the body in a different way, what he and Cat call switching.

[Cat] I used to think of myself as "front-stuck" for a long time because I would accidentally take over a lot. It hit a point where Ranger was better at keeping me at bay to where he could talk to other people without losing the front, but we found the best solution was to learn switching. Fish listed off Ranger's strategies for keeping me from stealing the front.

 

[Ranger] During possession, I do all of the work to keep Cat from sliding to the front. With full body possession, the goal is for Cat to be quiet and not pay attention, with me doing all of the thinking. If I am struggling to keep the front, I am usually fighting Cat's minimally conscious thoughts, and if I were to make Cat aware of what was going on, there's a good chance she would slide even closer to the front. As a result, I learned that Cat was incapable of keeping away from the front by herself.

 

In some cases, there was nothing I could do to keep Cat from taking the front. If she didn't like what I was doing or felt physically uncomfortable, she would easily take the front from me despite the fact she wanted nothing to do with the front.

thing is, none of my headmates have the kind of control/influence on the system needed to be able to keep me at bay, because usually if we're like trying to have a fronter other than me play a videogame, usually what happens is my mind starts wondering while playing the game on autopilot, and then i realise im fronting again. my headmates are unable to make me be "kept at bay", because i simply just have wayyy too much uncontrolled influence over the system. people keep telling me to "let your headmates do their part", but they literally cant, it has to start with me.

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59 minutes ago, anashyean said:

thing is, none of my headmates have the kind of control/influence on the system needed to be able to keep me at bay, because usually if we're like trying to have a fronter other than me play a videogame, usually what happens is my mind starts wondering while playing the game on autopilot, and then i realise im fronting again. my headmates are unable to make me be "kept at bay", because i simply just have wayyy too much uncontrolled influence over the system. people keep telling me to "let your headmates do their part", but they literally cant, it has to start with me.

 

If I played a videogame while possessing, I would have to remind myself I'm me every 5 seconds. I would struggle with blending and I would be more focused on that instead of the game I'm playing.

 

If I didn't worry about it, I would eventually lose the front to Cat's "autopilot" and she would realize she took the front.

 

I was able to keep Cat at bay like this through practice possessing. I had fronted for almost a year before having my first English class, where I possessed for the entire semester. Through experience, I had an easier and easier time keeping Cat in a trance state, to the point where I achieved doing something Cat doesn't like through a struggle fest.

 

Possession is exhausting, and the best solution is to learn switching. This may happen accidentally or you may have to learn it the hard way.

 

Some people find that working on strengthening your possession can lead to switching. Even if it doesn't, it will make it a little easier for your headmates in the long run. First, figure out what your headmates don't struggle with and compare that to doing things like playing videogames. Next, you can find a new activity that shouldn't be too hard for your headmates to keep in control. Once they get used to that situation, keep slightly increasing the difficulty. When I first started, I couldn't talk to other people. After getting used to walking by people and speaking in the body's voice, I was ready to talk to strangers. I then moved up to talking to friends and family (when the assumption was they are talking to Cat).


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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10 hours ago, Ranger said:

 

If I played a videogame while possessing, I would have to remind myself I'm me every 5 seconds. I would struggle with blending and I would be more focused on that instead of the game I'm playing.

 

If I didn't worry about it, I would eventually lose the front to Cat's "autopilot" and she would realize she took the front.

 

I was able to keep Cat at bay like this through practice possessing. I had fronted for almost a year before having my first English class, where I possessed for the entire semester. Through experience, I had an easier and easier time keeping Cat in a trance state, to the point where I achieved doing something Cat doesn't like through a struggle fest.

 

Possession is exhausting, and the best solution is to learn switching. This may happen accidentally or you may have to learn it the hard way.

 

Some people find that working on strengthening your possession can lead to switching. Even if it doesn't, it will make it a little easier for your headmates in the long run. First, figure out what your headmates don't struggle with and compare that to doing things like playing videogames. Next, you can find a new activity that shouldn't be too hard for your headmates to keep in control. Once they get used to that situation, keep slightly increasing the difficulty. When I first started, I couldn't talk to other people. After getting used to walking by people and speaking in the body's voice, I was ready to talk to strangers. I then moved up to talking to friends and family (when the assumption was they are talking to Cat).

you may have to clarify what you mean by "switching". to us, we would switch, not possess, to do something like let somebody play a videogame.

 

we can way more easily stay switched by being triggered to switch, rather than doing it intentionally. but as i said, intentional switching just goes to my autopilot and then me, no matter what the body is doing.

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34 minutes ago, anashyean said:

you may have to clarify what you mean by "switching".

 

Our switching is like turning on a subconscious setting for one headmate and turning it off for another, so the switched-in headmate has a different experience with the body and the mind than the switched-out headmates. Therefore, me being  "switched-in" means I have something turned "on" that allows me to be the default personality in the mind. When switched-in, I am more sensitive to the body's sensations, I have the ultimate say in who I do or don't talk to in my system, and if I zone out or let my mind wander, I will snap back awake as myself. I also influence the body and mind's habits in this state. Controlling the body while switched-in is a side effect of being switched-in, but I do not need to be switched-in to control the body.

 

Our possession is our headmates controlling the body with this setting being "off" for them, regardless of how they are controlling the body. We experience both partial and full-body possession. With partial possession, one headmate would control an arm or something while the other switched-in headmate assumes control of the rest of the body. With full-body possession, one headmate would control the entire body, but that headmate is not switched-in and therefore will have a more limited experience. Since the possessing headmate is not switched-in, they are prone to losing the front or being denied the front by the switched-in headmate.

 

Our switching does not mean taking control of our body. If Cat is switched-in and I want to control the body, I would use full-body possession. If Cat wanted to take over or accidentally take over, I would stop possessing. When sharing control of the body with my headmates, all of us possess Cat, and bodily control is effortlessly achieved by whoever has the desire to move the body. Since learning how to possess for a long time, possession is automatic and I and my headmates don't have to think about controlling the body very much to achieve it. Sometimes possession is given automatically to whichever headmate is the most active or is doing the majority of the thinking.

 

On 3/1/2020 at 10:54 PM, Shadow System said:

[Fish] Different people have called this [our system's full-body possession] switching or possession, so watch out for that.

 

Just in case it isn't clear, Fish is one of my headmates. He has never switched-in, but he has used full-body possession multiple times.

 

You may have learned a different definition for switching or have a different type of switching. We have been told our possession sounds like switching because there is frequently overlap between our possession experiences and other system's switching experiences.

I have heard of another system who's switching seems a lot like possession, but they don't have the same problem you are experiencing. They "switch" when the other headmate does the majority of the thinking, but they got rid of any subconscious leverage given to either of them through training and blame anything not done as either of them on the body's autopilot. If either of them lose the front, they effortlessly "switch back" and the problem is resolved.
 

1 hour ago, anashyean said:

to us, we would switch, not possess, to do something like let somebody play a videogame.

 

I can play a video game both switched-in or via full-body possession, but I would prefer to do the former because I wouldn't have to worry about losing control of the body or blending with Cat. Despite our full-body possession's limitations, I can do things like type on the forums and chat online easily with full-body possession, so I don't have to switch to do those things. As I described before, it depends on the activity.
 

1 hour ago, anashyean said:

we can way more easily stay switched by being triggered to switch, rather than doing it intentionally. but as i said, intentional switching just goes to my autopilot and then me, no matter what the body is doing.


We do not have non-consensual switching. We have a consent ritual every time before we switch.

 

I know other systems that switch accidentally or use non-consensual switching. If I recall correctly, that other system I mentioned is capable of non-consensual switching in the moment, but both headmates agreed to that in advance. However, I have never heard of a system report unintentional switching is stronger than intentional switching.

I can however possess the body accidentally. This usually happens when I am really invested in what I'm thinking about to myself, but I only have an advantage as long as Cat has no desire to take the front or if no one disturbed us. I don't know enough about your system's fronting habits to know this relevant, but I wonder if your accidental switching is stronger because you're more likely to be quiet in the mind and enter a trance state than if you were letting a headmate switch in intentionally.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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@Ranger

so all in all, are we supposed to just keep practicing being switched, until im able to be pushed out into a "trance" state? im not sure how id be able to do that, because as i originally said, just to be intentionally switched out i need to be focused on it, and that trance state is what causes me to accidentally take front.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, anashyean said:

so all in all, are we supposed to just keep practicing being switched, until im able to be pushed out into a "trance" state? im not sure how id be able to do that, because as i originally said, just to be intentionally switched out i need to be focused on it, and that trance state is what causes me to accidentally take front.


If your headmates practice switching, my feeling is it will only reduce the problem, but not get rid of it entirely. Ultimately, you are better off learning a different kind of switching.

 

You have 3 options:

1) You can learn switching from the other system I mentioned. I can give you their contact information and they can help you train your mind to get rid of the problem of you accidentally taking control.

2) I can show you more about how we learned switching, but I'm not sure if our switching style really clicks with you. If you would like to learn more what we do, let's move it to PMs or something other than this thread.

3) You can ask other systems about their switching experiences and ask others for their advice. You won't agree with everything you hear about, but you may get a better understanding on how you can solve this issue.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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9 minutes ago, Ranger said:


If your headmates practice switching, my feeling is it will only reduce the problem, but not get rid of it entirely. Ultimately, you are better off learning a different kind of switching.

 

You have 3 options:

1) You can learn switching from the other system I mentioned. I can give you their contact information and they can help you train your mind to get rid of the problem of you accidentally taking control.

2) I can show you more about how we learned switching, but I'm not sure if our switching style really clicks with you. If you would like to learn more what we do, let's move it to PMs or something other than this thread.

3) You can ask other systems about their switching experiences and ask others for their advice. You won't agree with everything you hear about, but you may get a better understanding on how you can solve this issue.

i mean, how we switch is that we just hand over control of the body and dominant thoughts to the frontrunner, but my thoughts start to dominate when i wander off so id like to get in contact with option 1

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