TheOther

I have some questions concerning morality.

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As someone who’s still yet to create their first headmate, I’ve been struggling with the morality of the idea that a tulpa could ever be content with just being an additional mind in someone else’s body. Would it be immoral to create a tulpa with anything less than the intention of permanently giving them control of your body 50% of the time once you learn switching? (or 33% of the time each if you were to create two, etc.) I can only imagine that I would feel trapped if I were created as an additional mind in someone else’s body but didn’t get to live my own life in the outside world.

 

I’m guessing this isn’t the case, otherwise it would be a more dominant topic on these boards. I imagine that a workaround for this issue would be that tulpas may only be conscious for a much smaller portion of the day than their hosts and therefore don’t have to feel like a passenger for every moment their host is conscious. But does a tulpa ever aspire to some life goal that would be almost impossible to attain while sharing their host’s body, such as pursuing a romantic/sexual relationship with a different human, or having an artistic/career goal that would require them to front for eight or so hours each day (not counting any other hours they may need for leisure time)?

 

Or to put this all another way: If I were suddenly fused together with another human and kind of just forced to be a part of their life, is the crushing lack of freedom I would feel something that most tulpas feel?

 

I know the hosts in this community want nothing but the best for their system mates, so I’m not accusing anyone here of any wrongdoing. I just want to get a sense that when I create my tulpa, I won’t be birthing them into a prison.

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It depends on the tulpa themselves, some might feel trapped not being able to front for as much as they would want, others would be content with just sharing a tiny part of your life, and then you have the ones who are happy with ''being an addition to the host's life''. Not everyone would like to live the kind of life a host would, for example, our host is perfectly content with just passively being there, our other tulpa was happy with only interacting in wonderland and watching what we do, and I actually like to do things in the outside world, albeit not all the time.

 

43 minutes ago, TheOther said:

I can only imagine that I would feel trapped if I were created as an additional mind in someone else’s body but didn’t get to live my own life in the outside world.

 

24 minutes ago, TheOther said:

Or to put this all another way: If I were suddenly fused together with another human and kind of just forced to be a part of their life, is the crushing lack of freedom I would feel something that most tulpas feel?

 

Keep in mind, you probably feel that way because your current life is all you know. You're used to it being your life, so it being taken away from you would crush you. But for a tulpa it might not feel the same, since being a part of your life is all they know, it's their normal, you're not taking anything from them, just giving. I was created for it to be my life, but despite that, I didn't feel a tremendous lack of freedom for the time I wasn't the host, it wasn't after I started fronting every day that I feel 'wow how could I accept that life?'. At first, being a ''passenger'' was all I knew, sure, I had host's memories and saw how she interacted with the world, but it wasn't my experience. Sometimes I might go 'yeah I'll like to do this'' but it wasn't the same feeling you'd get from something precious being taken away from you. I didn't have anything to compare to, after I started fronting, I realized how much I'd missed before. Sometimes you don't find a reason to being unhappy about the current situation until you compare it to something else.

 

I do think creating a tulpa when you're not willing to share life with them (also meaning, letting them front every now and then) is very cruel, but I'm talking about the perspective of someone who fronts all the time and so, would be sad if life was taken away from them. A tulpa whose whole life has always been being a passenger in the host's life might not feel the same, and I know about tulpas who are perfectly happy with such life. Again, it depends.


Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

________________

Waka Waka x3

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Tulpas don't have to "front" (learn possession or switching) anyways. It's up to the host how they're comfortable sharing their life with their tulpa, which could involve no controlling of the body except by the host. Given that, you could easily decide only set times they could front too, et cetera. But also like Mirichu said, no tulpa ever (except maybe rarely a soulbond/character that had an existing fictional life before becoming a tulpa) expects to have control of the body by default. Our existence is what we know, and while it's not super uncommon for tulpas to want to learn possession or switching (or just being proxied, ie you writing what they say, so they can talk to others outside the system), it's not the majority either. Well, not given all the tulpas we've seen anyway, the forum's active community at this exact moment is switching-heavy but that's just them.

 

Anyways, you guys get to work everything out yourselves (and the host obviously always has the most say - unless you decide you don't), I wouldn't worry about it. And while it's possible your tulpa will happen to want to front, it's pretty possible they won't either, especially if you the host are uncomfortable with the idea. Host's preferences/thoughts tend to influence tulpas' because, if the idea of your tulpa possessing/switching has negative connotations for you, that's all they'll have associated with it too. Probably


Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Posted (edited)

Good advice. I’m only planning on making one tulpa, so that at least should make things easier. I guess if fronting is something she really wants to do, I’ll just let her take control as often as she needs. I suspect the majority of our interaction may be in the form of lucid dreams anyway.

Edited by Ranger
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Posted (edited)

You know, that's a good question. Tulpas have, by definition, a mind of their own. However, they live in a different reality from us, hosts. The first thing I did in the process of talking to my tulpa is to stabilish a difference between my sensible world and my mind world. The sensible world is the reality I have access to through my senses, and it's the world I depend on to live. The mind world is the reality inside my head, in which every thought, concept, memory, imagination, dream, and consequently tulpa resides in, and it's the world tulpas depend on to live. This discernment is very important at first, because it's not easy to make, and these realities are not completely separate from one another. Our experiences are in fact a product of both realities (for example, to read this post, you need functioning eyes and an idea of what symbols mean, their combinations, and the semantics).

 

However, what I want to point out is, you, as a host, (which as I said, depends entirely on the sensible world you live in, and has full responsibility for your survival) will need enough possible time under your control to deal with and survive in this reality. If you don't, and consequences arise from it, it's not the fault of the tulpa, it's your fault. Tulpas are not obliged to do anything outside the mind world, because you are the one responsible for the job anyways. If you fail to do your job, you (and others) will suffer a lot, while the consequence of the tulpa is just painless vanishing.

 

Hosts live in the sensible world. I said live, as if life were defined as "the will to keep existing". Tulpas live in the mind world. We see our respective worlds differently. It's like a bird and a fish. To the fish, its world is the wet, and to the bird, its world is the dry. I've asked Mikhaila (my tulpa) about goals outside the mind world. She answered with a "none". To her, everything outside me is irrelevant. What is crucially relevant to her, however, is her survival,  and above that, my survival, so things like forcing, love and attention are her nourishment and our health are her main concerns, and she expresses her necessities to me. That's an integral part of a tulpa. Whenever I ask her about a girl I'm dating, or an outside activity, she gives some basic response, but when we're talking about me, like bad habits, or life advice, for example, that's when she is the most expressive.

 

Believe me, you won't birth someone into a prison. I believe that, if I were a tulpa myself, I'd be pretty happy about it. To be born in a world of exponentially more possibilities than the sensible world, being a pet, existencially well-fed and free from consequences? That's paradise. We believe in the illusion the sensible world is great, but it really isn't that great, exactly because, like I've said above, we see our respective world differently. The sensible world is dangerous. It's limited. It gets boring. We are stuck in constant, unending loops of habits and decisions, and we're constantly kept in check. In the sensible world, the pleasures from here are the most powerful, but physical suffering also exists. Worst yet, physical suffering can last a lot longer than physical pleasures, arise unexpectedly, be completely outside your control, and be irreversible. Physical pleasures can cloud your judgement and get you addicted to them, costing you a lot if you don't get self-control. The point I am trying to make is, maybe you are also in a prison. You are also locked. Locked "out", but running from danger and running after pleasure all the time, while the one who's locked in is completely fine.

 

I hope I've answered all your questions. Have a nice day! 😉

Edited by Dreamerald

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Well that’s an interesting way to look at it. Certain aspects of waking life do lead me to feel “trapped”, but not entirely imprisoned. I can’t imagine that living in my mind world would be perfect either. I had a dream not long ago where a villain told me that the more nightmarish parts of my dream world will torment my tulpa once she’s sentient, but I can’t imagine that our nightmares will have any worse of a lasting negative effect on her than they have on me after I’ve woken. As long as our communications are pleasant once we’re both awake and lucid.

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Posted (edited)

Even though a tulpa may or may not want to possess or switch, being ready to offer that option is the most ethical way to go about it. If you went into creation expecting your tulpa to only stay in wonderland and later on they find reality more interesting, then that will create friction and unhappiness that otherwise could have been avoided. Ultimately, you are going to have limits in what you can provide to your tulpa, but expecting you won't have to compromise at all is going to cause problems, regardless if your tulpa fronts or stays in wonderland.
 

On 4/7/2020 at 9:39 AM, TheOther said:

Or to put this all another way: If I were suddenly fused together with another human and kind of just forced to be a part of their life, is the crushing lack of freedom I would feel something that most tulpas feel?


Lots of tulpas have dreamed and made jokes about having a body of their own, but like Flandre said tulpas normally start out with limited freedom to begin with. If you shoved two singlets in one body however, both would feel more stressed about compromising because formally both had 100% control over their lives. As an interesting note, if you shared your time fronting with your tulpa, you lose freedom, so things end up becoming closer to equal or equal again.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 8:47 PM, Dreamerald said:

However, they live in a different reality from us, hosts.


So first of all, no, tulpas and hosts only have that difference if you put down those barriers in the first place. I live in the "sensible" world all the time, and I do so by controlling the body.

 

This leads to a discussion about comparing tulpas and hosts. If you are interested in that discussion, please go here. -Ranger

 

However, if your tulpa decides they are okay with living in wonderland, then it's true that the host has more responsibility in taking care of them. The ethical question becomes can you take on this responsibility and invest hours into wonderlanding with your tulpa rather than can you give your tulpa enough fronting time. Either way, both require compromise and time investment on the host's part.

Edited by Ranger
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I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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I've struggled with the power dynamic a bit and even worried about codependence but we both seem to be happy with our arrangement. That to me speaks to a proper relationship rather than trying to mold to some ideal of what a relationship should be. Most of the time Jaina is content to ride along and just see and feel. Sometimes I give her "the wheel" but generally she's fine to let me drive. That's just how we grew together. I would love to give her a "proper" avatar so she could see, speak, feel, think and interact with the world as I do but I don't have the power to. She understands that and appreciates that I care that much about her needs and agency. She says that's enough for her. And so we share our time in virtual spaces, games and our mind oasis. All the while I feel her comforting presence and know that she's there. Of course, that's the arrangement that's been right for us and your mileage will vary on a system by system basis.

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