Matsuri

Individual headmate with counterproductive persistence

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Okay so, we have met trouble in our endeavors that seems almost impossible to surpass with our methods and what we've tried, and I'm getting kinda impatient trying to wait for miracles and for it to solve on itself, feels like something that eats our systems from inside

 

So we've had doubts before, sure, the basic stuff. And we've had some experience with a full hard episode of pure cognitive dissonance, but that went away and things got better and more stable it seemed. Now, we've had another revelation that really drags me down, a headmate who is pretty much fully certain that all plural stuff we've done since we joined two years ago is delusional. When he co fronts, he does everything to "break the illusions" and he's pretty calm about it, he's certain he's right. My emotions that he also feels tells him nothing either, and let me tell you that those emotions are strong

 

When he manages to front, he does a lot just to "erase" us and the ideas that we are separate, telling himself that everything was him and all, trying to dismiss other headmates thinking and stuff. Still avoided things that could trigger other headmates but he have that already rationalized too

 

This seems like a complicated issue, we haven't found any answers searching around and it seems like our problem is very specific


Hi! I'm one of the most active fronters of Unicorn Cavalry. I like timey wimey stuff and blue boxes. Make it timey wimey blue box stuff and we're set to explore all time, forum and space!

My system mates on here: Kurisutina, Xarbern

 

>Come talk, ask or just casually vibe with us

>Season 2 Progress Report

 

"Does anyone know this song? It goes: ue ue ue, heeeeee, Kalinka Kalinka Kalinka x3"

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Disbelieving in tulpas is the exact opposite process of believing in tulpas, you make them real in the opposite way you make them "just delusions".

 

The answer is that real and fake do not exist in the mind, only your experience. Tulpas can be real or fake depending on one's belief in them. This is basically objective fact - that the mental part of a human's reality is not objective. 

 

The only question is whether one wants the experience of having tulpas or not. "Real" and "Fake" experiences do not exist.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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@Tewi Our issue is pretty complex though. Simply put, Xar is the only one being certain that we're fake and nothing since we started has been real and blabla.. Me and Kuri are still certain on our plurality and don't wanna be singlets

 

If anyone's aware of Jungian psychology and archetypes, there's something called "shadow work", and I found that we've long done something like that without thinking about it, with Xar representing the inner shadow. But first off, we've not done it properly even if doing that at all might sound a bit cruel for people here. We've tried to avoid avoiding plurality, and the easiest way has been to avoid letting Xar front or think

 

So I've thought about it with the shadow work, if we should go into it a bit more because it felt like we might've gotten more control over it yesterday when we played with the idea a little. The questionable thing might just be morality, and what the consequences might be, both good and negative


Hi! I'm one of the most active fronters of Unicorn Cavalry. I like timey wimey stuff and blue boxes. Make it timey wimey blue box stuff and we're set to explore all time, forum and space!

My system mates on here: Kurisutina, Xarbern

 

>Come talk, ask or just casually vibe with us

>Season 2 Progress Report

 

"Does anyone know this song? It goes: ue ue ue, heeeeee, Kalinka Kalinka Kalinka x3"

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Posted (edited)

Oh man, yikes.

 

I have had intrusive thoughts of what if for some reason Cat decided to say tulpamancy isn't real, and I decided that Cat can't get rid of me even if she wanted to.

I have had my identity threatened before, only it was accidental. That experience made me second guess myself, but I realized whatever I am, I am real. And no, I'm not going anywhere and nothing will change my mind about it.

 

No matter how any of you guys see tulpamancy, there's no way he get rid of you without your consent.

 

I gave this argument at some point: If we're the same person, what if I am the "real" version of us? How about I take credit for everything Cat did, her beliefs, her family, her passions, her memories, and call them mine? How would he feel if you, Matsi, were the one integrating him into yourself?

 

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

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Well, the advice I gave was for any doubters in your system or anyone else's systems. If someone doesn't want tulpas, there's literally nothing we can do about that. But if they don't believe in tulpas, I want to make it clear that your belief should be determined simply by preference of having them or not, since tulpas cannot be "real" or "fake" as a purely mental phenomenon. If you experience having tulpas, you have tulpas, and there is not anything more to it than that. Hopefully that would help Xar see sense, but if he actually just doesn't want to be plural to begin with.. I can't help.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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3 hours ago, Ranger said:

I gave this argument at some point: If we're the same person, what if I am the "real" version of us? How about I take credit for everything Cat did, her beliefs, her family, her passions, her memories, and call them mine? How would he feel if you, Matsi, were the one integrating him into yourself?

 

I would feel bad, and tbf, my plan with that Carl Jung shadow thingy was somewhat to make him integrate in a productive way for potential self-improvement, but I'm gonna put that idea on ice because it does sound pretty tragic, and perhaps it would make things worse and even more complicated.

 

3 minutes ago, Tewi said:

Well, the advice I gave was for any doubters in your system or anyone else's systems. If someone doesn't want tulpas, there's literally nothing we can do about that. But if they don't believe in tulpas, I want to make it clear that your belief should be determined simply by preference of having them or not, since tulpas cannot be "real" or "fake" as a purely mental phenomenon. If you experience having tulpas, you have tulpas, and there is not anything more to it than that. Hopefully that would help Xar see sense, but if he actually just doesn't want to be plural to begin with.. I can't help.

 

I'm afraid if that not wanting to be plural is the core reason he's persistently in denial. It makes sense and we share similar sentiments too for why he wouldn't want to be plural, but he's the only one who doesn't want to be plural, while I and Kuri are aboard the plural train and I don't plan to give up.

 

Here's old threads that delivered some interesting perspectives and discussions about somewhat relatable things

 

I'm hoping all talk and reading just being present in the memory banks might help somehow.


Hi! I'm one of the most active fronters of Unicorn Cavalry. I like timey wimey stuff and blue boxes. Make it timey wimey blue box stuff and we're set to explore all time, forum and space!

My system mates on here: Kurisutina, Xarbern

 

>Come talk, ask or just casually vibe with us

>Season 2 Progress Report

 

"Does anyone know this song? It goes: ue ue ue, heeeeee, Kalinka Kalinka Kalinka x3"

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Matsuri said:

I'm afraid if that not wanting to be plural is the core reason he's persistently in denial. It makes sense and we share similar sentiments too for why he wouldn't want to be plural, but he's the only one who doesn't want to be plural, while I and Kuri are aboard the plural train and I don't plan to give up.

You're two against one, what would weigh more? and at this point, is it really Xar's life to decide if the brain remains plural or not? I know a lot of people say that if the host doesn't want to be plural anymore, they're in their right to stop being so, but that's pretty selfish imo. Creating a tulpa in bad times and then things get better and host wants to be host again, that doesn't sound fair at all (I know it's not your case, just an example)

 

But remember that you've been fronting for at least 2 years while Xar hasn't, so it's pretty safe to assume that even if he wanted to get rid of any of you, he wouldn't be able to, since you're the one the brain defaults to. And at this point, the brain has enough things associated to you to trigger you awake anyway.

Edited by Mirichu

Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

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A host who specifically doesn't want to be plural anymore can still choose to never make their tulpas active. We could do that in our own system, even one of us tulpas, because the others don't become active particularly well if we don't specifically talk to them.

 

Anyways, if it's not a matter of belief (which I feel like it is) but instead one of wanting to be plural or not, you'll have to talk it out with your host. But if it is of belief, sorting out your systemwide beliefs in tulpamancy can still help. Having the same understanding as our system would do wonders for any system, I think.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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The way I think about it is that none of them are actually "real", including the original ego of the system that develops over your life. Your brain is just a bunch of connections that react to the environment in a deterministic manner, you have no say in what you actually experience and learn. What you call "me" is just a learned process. Think about it, if you weren't taught a language and given a name you wouldn't understand the concept of being "you", "you" wouldn't exist. You'd be just a reactive creature without ego, like a dog or a fish. Many times my tulpa asked me "am I real?" I always answer "no, neither am I" or "you're just as real as me". Don't know if that makes it better or gives you an existential crisis.

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On 5/15/2020 at 12:35 PM, Mirichu said:

You're two against one, what would weigh more? and at this point, is it really Xar's life to decide if the brain remains plural or not?

 

Exactly! I think it's pretty clear that majority of us wanna be plural, and even though Xar has tried to unpluralify us, it never works out even in heavy denial. Denial could be a cause from him him not wanting to be plural, and him not wanting to be plural is still almost a mystery, but it might be some underlying issue there too because the sentiments he brings up feels pretty mutual but that's things that I can accept but he can't

 

On 5/15/2020 at 3:25 PM, Tewi said:

A host who specifically doesn't want to be plural anymore can still choose to never make their tulpas active. We could do that in our own system, even one of us tulpas, because the others don't become active particularly well if we don't specifically talk to them.

 

Anyways, if it's not a matter of belief (which I feel like it is) but instead one of wanting to be plural or not, you'll have to talk it out with your host. But if it is of belief, sorting out your systemwide beliefs in tulpamancy can still help. Having the same understanding as our system would do wonders for any system, I think.

 

Again, denial makes sense but I don't think it's that easy for us. Talking with Xar seems to be difficult for me when he's in denial, but sure he seems to have no problem interacting with outside people smh. Anyhow, he listens and reflects when people directs to him even when he's not fronting. So, one idea is to have him be social more with other plurals, but we'll see about that

 

18 hours ago, neo said:

The way I think about it is that none of them are actually "real", including the original ego of the system that develops over your life. Your brain is just a bunch of connections that react to the environment in a deterministic manner, you have no say in what you actually experience and learn. What you call "me" is just a learned process. Think about it, if you weren't taught a language and given a name you wouldn't understand the concept of being "you", "you" wouldn't exist. You'd be just a reactive creature without ego, like a dog or a fish. Many times my tulpa asked me "am I real?" I always answer "no, neither am I" or "you're just as real as me". Don't know if that makes it better or gives you an existential crisis.

 

Thanks for sharing. I'd try to do something like that if it comes down to it, like telling him that he's an delusion too or something like that, asking the deep questions approach ; p


Hi! I'm one of the most active fronters of Unicorn Cavalry. I like timey wimey stuff and blue boxes. Make it timey wimey blue box stuff and we're set to explore all time, forum and space!

My system mates on here: Kurisutina, Xarbern

 

>Come talk, ask or just casually vibe with us

>Season 2 Progress Report

 

"Does anyone know this song? It goes: ue ue ue, heeeeee, Kalinka Kalinka Kalinka x3"

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