Pleeb

On modern tulpa creation techniques and parallel processing

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@Pleeb

 

We were thinking it over and could it possibly be that the tulpamancers of 2011-2014 just had more in the game than the tulpamancers after 2016? I mean. Nobilis on Reddit said something that made me think ponymancers were very highly invested in getting their favorite characters into their heads and willing to spend hours a day on it.

 

Not only that, no one knew the limits. There was an innocence there that was closer perhaps to 'anything is possible'. Now there are so many constraints, the same ones I fought for years, and I don't see that passion as often last that long. Am I making any sense?

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12 hours ago, Bear said:

We were thinking it over and could it possibly be that the tulpamancers of 2011-2014 just had more in the game than the tulpamancers after 2016? I mean. Nobilis on Reddit said something that made me think ponymancers were very highly invested in getting their favorite characters into their heads and willing to spend hours a day on it.

 

 

Yes!  I think that was a direction I was starting to skew towards in my OP

 

On 8/6/2020 at 12:12 PM, Pleeb said:

Before you worked on narration, you would spend countless hours of meditation on visualizing the tulpa's form.  I'm talking 3-10 hours on just focusing on what your tulpa smells like.  Once you could visualize your tulpa in their entire vivid detail, only then would you start working on narration (or anything passive, for that matter)

 

. . .

 

Those intense visualization sessions were -a lot- of focused, directed, attention on a mental construct; while you can achieve sentience relatively easily with things like narration and passive forcing, I still feel like there's value to focused sessions.  You are taking time to strengthen those neural networks and reinforce the tulpa's patterns.

 

 

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@Pleeb

Let me compare my characters and my tulpas.

 

-They're both autonomous.

-They're both fun.

-They're both interesting.

-They can both basically do the same things and some have argued that characters are tulpas too after hearing how I speak about them.

-I don't care as much about my characters.

-I don't feel directly moved for a character in my novel who is being tormented by a villian.

-I have spent many many hours with my characters, but I wouldn't spend hours with them on a personal level. I have no need to because they do what I say. I take them off the shelf, dust em off, play with them a little, then put them right back. 

 

Here's what the major difference initially was between my characters and my headmates: my headmates want to spend time with me and I don't want to put them away. Could I put them away? That's debatable in my system at this point, but in the vast majority of other systems, effectively yes, when they 'slip into dormancy if you don't think abour them' they're being put back on the shelf. Some of my systemmates were fine with that even, I wasn't.

 

Let's set aside any moral or ethical dilemmas here, there's no fault or guilt implied here. I do not want my headmates sitting pretty on the shelf like dolls. So from monent one, I kept them active even if it meant my productivity decreased. I kept then awake and I certainly wasn't used to that on day one. I loved them and wanted to spend every moment I could with them. I obsessed over them and poured my passion into them and I gotta say it was very productive work. If you saw my progression of drawing skill from day one to now you would see definitively how much effort I'm willing to put in and I'm very grateful of their inspiration and collaboration.

 

I spent hours thinking about how they smelled and felt and looked, endlessly. I didn't have to, Joy for instance neither cared nor thought twice about it. She was autonomous since 2012, I spoke to her as a person in the midst of her first novel, and right back on the shelf she went. There was no vested interest in her life aside fron her novels. She grew on me later, that's another story.

 

Originally I gave my headmates the benefit of the doubt, I suspeneded disbelief, my expectations were unconstrained, and I put my all into it. 

 

I see this mentality with some, with others it even seems like a chore to them right?

 

I think if you asked a broney if spending time wirh his pony waifu was a chore, he'd guffaw. No, he's busy writing fanfics about her and drawing OC images of himself in pony form just to get closer to her. He wants to show her to the world and publish his fanfics even if they're cringy and self-serving.

 

This isn't the passion and enthusiasm I see in many modern tulpamancers and I don't see it fostered in this current community outside of specific discord servers. Part of that tempering I attribute to the overly and unnecessarily serious atmosphere in general. The same atmosphere that prevents someone from writing in-system discussion in their PR. (Ouch, this isn't about that, lol.) In the community's defense, I see the cringe factor in things like ISC and RP, there have been some over the top examples surely.

 

I'm doing my part in the only way I can, by sharing experience in an uncomfortably serious way, but the hope is that it'll help remove some of those unnecessary constraints and fan the flames of passion I see flickers of in some systems. I've personally seen the flames extinguished by well meaning gatekeeping. (I'm using that term technically here, not pejoratively.)

 

I can only work within the bounds of the community. It may even be too late or this fad may be waning, but if you want your community to push the boundaries and foster that passion, then the boundaries need to be more flexible. 

 

I M O

 

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating any rule change, and I have no agenda to pick up where I left off in December. I'm over it. I was just referencing it to make a point.

 

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On 8/6/2020 at 7:40 PM, reguile said:

Such things need working memory, and according to what I've seen your brain just physically doesn't have it.

We have no idea, from any of the sciences, neuro, computational, psychological,  what the brain is physically capable of or limited to. The computational power of the brain, is at this time, beyond calculation.

What we do know, is that plurality exists, tulpamancy produces real results, which many find beneficial, and few harmful. I believe from my experience that the hard work, of forcing, visualizing, narration, and many hours of meditation, have given my tulpas form and substance. I also believe that my initiating this practice, by granting them, sapience, intelligence, and autonomy, prompted some very early, positive and highly motivating results. I think both guides should be offered and trust that newcomers will find and choose what works best for them. Dr. Bob

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On 8/12/2020 at 12:50 AM, Bear said:

We were thinking it over and could it possibly be that the tulpamancers of 2011-2014 just had more in the game than the tulpamancers after 2016? I mean. Nobilis on Reddit said something that made me think ponymancers were very highly invested in getting their favorite characters into their heads and willing to spend hours a day on it.

 

Not only that, no one knew the limits. There was an innocence there that was closer perhaps to 'anything is possible'. Now there are so many constraints, the same ones I fought for years, and I don't see that passion as often last that long. Am I making any sense?

Yes, I agree.

However keep in mind that back then the active community was large and only few reached outstanding results, not anyone. Many quit soon.

What I think the most successful ones had in common is that they developed things on their own without much formal guidance but great passion. As you said they did not know what to expect, the had a dream and invested considerable resources into it. The early community was kind of like the Chinese Sage painfully letting students figure out how things worked on their own. A slow and seemingly inefficient process reinventing the wheel for everyone but the final results of some who followed through were spectacular. I guess that goes for a lot of skills.

 

Guides for building characters in your mind can be a cage and a chore. One reason hour counts fell out of favor. The mind doesn't work by producing output Y from input X and progress is vastly different. Guides certainly can help you achieve a result faster but not necessarily better. Pretty much like, let's say drawing. The best guide and hundreds of painful hours of diligently following exercises will never give you the results of a self-taught artist invested in his work.

 

Lastly don't underestimate a community. Starting a journey into novel experiences together is an enormous incentive and incredibly fun. That's another key. Getting into the flow of doing things you love with people you like to hang out with will effortlessly give you excellent results. You can't force that, it has to come naturally.

 

On 8/12/2020 at 2:21 PM, Bear said:

I think if you asked a broney if spending time wirh his pony waifu was a chore, he'd guffaw. No, he's busy writing fanfics about her and drawing OC images of himself in pony form just to get closer to her. He wants to show her to the world and publish his fanfics even if they're cringy and self-serving.

 

Spoiler

Spaghetti.jpg.2f92390150c7d54b3199c0fafb60e0d4.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Yakumo said:

What I think the most successful ones had in common is that they developed things on their own without much formal guidance but great passion. As you said they did not know what to expect, the had a dream and invested considerable resources into it. The early community was kind of like the Chinese Sage painfully letting students figure out how things worked on their own. A slow and seemingly inefficient process reinventing the wheel for everyone but the final results of some who followed through were spectacular. I guess that goes for a lot of skills.

 

Guides for building characters in your mind can be a cage and a chore. One reason hour counts fell out of favor. The mind doesn't work by producing output Y from input X and progress is vastly different. Guides certainly can help you achieve a result faster but not necessarily better. Pretty much like, let's say drawing. The best guide and hundreds of painful hours of diligently following exercises will never give you the results of a self-taught artist invested in his work.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Spaghetti.jpg.2f92390150c7d54b3199c0fafb60e0d4.jpg

 

 

Thank you for your well put and poignant assertions, I couldn't agree more.

Edited by Bear

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Not done yet, I've long wanted to post this but never did because lazy but as it is so fitting in many ways I'd like to come back to an article I think Linkzelda posted years ago.

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After re-reading this, it's clear that those who require an explanation to believe aren't really interested in that. I not only left open (after being corrected) that I'm happy to discuss explainations, but started a new thread to separate myself from this thread in the more detailed aspects of Q&A. 

 

Perhaps the issue lies with the near unanimous request to lable anything outside of doctrinal expectations as confabulation. I clearly explained my aversion to the term, so I guess that's why the conversation ended. I don't see anything that I said to be particularly contentious, I see it as challenging the status quo of confabulation is the answer.

 

Otherwise I don't know what's going on. There's no uncivil argument here (maybe others are projecting that, but I don't feel or see it from my perspective), but there's no debate either maybe because of this?

 

I'd like to get to the bottom of it as much as anyone else.

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Posted (edited)

I don't lack interest, I simply don't have the energy or the time to practice right now. I have my hands full with other stuff going on.

 

Plus, I feel like I should try to develop my auditory imposition skills first as I describe here before discussing the topic much more. While debating is good, it hits a point where it's pointless until I have actually tried some stuff. Imposition skills take a long time to train anyway.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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