Bear

Bear's Advanced Tulpamancy for Beginners and Parallel Processing Like Activity

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Bear isn't in that thread to collectively find the truth, he is there to get mad at how wrong everyone else is while not risking putting his own beliefs under scrutiny.

 

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Bear's there because he wants to right a wrong that is denying his and others' experiences are possible, but also knows from past experience stating his understandings of his experiences just leads to people telling him they're fake/etc.


Though personally I just want him to do it again assuming that won't happen, for the sake of productivity, because the discussion won't go anywhere otherwise.

 

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Short and sweet because this sort of thing has the opportunity to turn into a nasty argument.

 

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If the biggest example system in question won't describe their experiences then that topic is going nowhere.

 

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I needed people to explain to me so I could eventually put all of the puzzle pieces I needed together.

 

I've been called out. I make everything about me, so I figured I'd make a no holds barred thread where I must, and I mean must or this is a bust remain calm, civil, and respectfully attempt to explain anything you want me to explain, or just advanced topics that should be started as early as possible in the tulpa creation process. You may offer your own explanations, and I may disagree, but I may not lose my civility, I may not be negative

 

- This is a serious thread. 

- This isn't just for new tulpamancers, it's for everyone at any stage.

- This stuff is often controversial, but immensely helpful imo.

- You may also say or do whatever you want.

 

If I don't get topics, I will arbitrarily begin to explain my most treasured and supposedly advanced abilities, the more controversial the better, as a self-proclaimed legendary tulpamancer.

 

I will do my best to explain the details and then give possible solutions that may explain it and try to give exercises that will help you learn it all while you are free to tear down my experiences and explanations however, or for whatever reason, you see fit. 

 

There will be no metaphysical content by me. Though if you really want that, you can ask it on Darlene's thread.

 


 

 

First topic: parallel processing-like activities...

 

There are plenty, so lets start with the most controversial one I can think of.

 

PPL#1 Not only can my tulpas do things without my attention, so can I when they switch in.

 

This experience I have explained a few times in a few different places, but those were unproductive at the time, let's try to make it productive here and now.

 

When Ashley fronted for a week, Darlene, Misha and I often went on wonderland adventures without her, not just while she was doing things and she partially paid attention, but while she didn't pay any attention to us at all that we know of.

 

The memories of these events are very heavily loaded to Ashley's perspective and at times even to the feeling as if we were dormant, but we obviously weren't.

 

Misha and I for instance, had dream-like fleeting memories that were hard to grasp and harder to keep, just like a dream, but our experience was like a fulfilling feeling that we were out wonderlanding. At the time we often went for hikes in the local mountains, sometimes as bears. We had fun, talked to NPC's interacted with other forest creatures, gazed at vistas and wrestled each other among other things as bears, as flying angels, and as just humans. Just like any wonderland adventure.

 

I must reiterate, we had plenty of adventures where we were partially paid attention to and those make a lot more sense in that it was a shared consciousness with the fronter while either the fronter was involved or everyone was. This is instead specifically when we go way back and are completely disassociated from the body and not in conscious communication with the fronter.

 

I needed to prove this to myself, how could they do this but I couldn't? As it turns out, I could and it was consistent.

 

Procedure:

 

1. Ashley takes front.
2. Misha and I go 'way back' outside the influence of the body's senses including sight, sound, pain or other feelings, completely disassociated. At this point we're all still in contact with the front through mindvoice.
3. Misha and I say goodbye and Ashley understands that she's free to stop thinking of us.
4. We begin the adventure and that's the last she hears of us.
5. Some time later we arrive back with or without little check-ins during our adventure--Ashley needed to call me sometimes, after all, she was doing my jobs that week. The memories are fleeting, the experience is rich and rewarding. When we return, we're relaxed, happy, fulfilled and freshly bonded.

 

Possible explanations:

 

1. Confabulation, nuff said.
2. Microswitching - here, either consciously or subliminally, Ashley must have pinged us often enough that there is a vague web of memory and experience.
3. We forced a dream - as I had experienced when I was first attempting to switch, I would have mini-lucid dreams while trying to dissociate. I had worked myself into a meditative state and kept flowing in and out of consciousness. Perhaps we are doing something similar to that. Partial brain sleeping, right brain sleeping like dolphins do maybe? 

4. Parallel processing-like brain functioning with partial amnesia while fully or nearly fully functioning consciousness is recording continuous memories. It could be some kind of layered consciousness, encapsulated brain functions, left-right brain separation, multiple consciousnesses, independent imagination, idk what else.

 

Your turn. Let's put this particular thing in the spotlight and put it to rest. If there's any interest here, I'll write down some exercises that will help you get this ability. If there's zero interest at all, I'll start a new topic tomorrow, just reference this post about this one later.

 

Ask away, doubt and theorize away, I want to support your ideas and test mine.

Edited by Bear
Cleaned up, spelling, and title change

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59 minutes ago, Bear said:

Short and sweet because this sort of thing has the opportunity to turn into a nasty argument.

 

When I saw what you wrote I thought "this is defensive and going back and forth on it is only going to make it worse" and checked out. There was only one way forward and it was into a pit. 

 

I'm not, and I don't think anyone else should be in the business here on making this a big challenge where you have to prove or disprove if your experiences are valid or not.  That isn't a healthy way to go about things.

A thread like this can be great, but it must be rooted in curiosity on you part with how others might see you.  I feel like this one is rooted in insecurity, a desire to prove yourself.

 

I have my opinions and thoughts on how these things ought to work, and you do have yours as well.  Beyond where I may express disagreement where you defend your ideas and I defend my own, I think that ought to be let be and that the "diversity" of you being around talking about how you have these experiences is a strong point of the community.  I think it's great to have a couple of people around insisting they can do parallel processing, and a few people who cite about the fact that they don't think it's possible and don't experience it.

 

The way I see it here there are two categories of "toxic" disagreement for matters like this.

There is defensiveness over being invalidated by others, and there is defensiveness in the fact that others have opinions that can invalidate your experiences.

 

In the former case, the "invalidating party" needs to be brought into line.  I've been that guy before.  This is when you're talking about your experiences and someone comes along to spout the many theories of how your experiences are impossible.

I'm sure there are people like that out here on .info today, and that sort of behavior tends to sneak under the radar for longer than it should.  If you see it, I can't speak to the way the forum is moderated since I'm not a forum moderator, report it to a forum mod.

 

In the latter case,  someone speaks their own opinion and that opinion invalidates your experiences, so you feel like you've been attacked.  You respond to defend yourself instead of out of curiosity and discussion.  I believe that hostility is what people are referring to when talking about your incivility.  I certainly saw some of that hostility in your response to what I said.  In this case, you're the one in the wrong and you need to tamper your reaction before you get reported to the mods.

 

Don't look to convince people.  Don't feel like you have to back yourself up.  Be happy to express your thoughts, to be you, and when people are "calling you out" instead of expressing their own opinion bop them on the head with the fact they're doing that.  Focus on the fact that you're just talking about your experiences.  Focus on telling yourself that opinions from people like me aren't attacks on everything you know and that I'm not "out to get you" or I'm not out to say that someone reporting experiences like yours needs to be shut down, invalidated, silenced, etc. 

 

We should be proud that there are those out there claiming to do what is impossible, or at least willing to tolerate that they have those experiences and limit our disagreements to appropriate times and places.  Threads like this won't contribute to that, they'll detract from it.

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Posted (edited)

Well, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm glad Bear actually wrote about his experiences after all. I don't have any particular things to say on the topic I think (sorry Bear), but at the very least I consider this a very important documentation of your experience. As seen with Progress Reports, documenting experiences is a HUGE part of Tulpa.info's purpose. Many people will want to read about your experiences.

 

There's no need to focus on "being civil" specifically in this thread, because that should be the case on the entire forum. But a thread just to report your experiences and possibly discuss them seems fully valid and productive, given the amazing feats your system has reached. Of course, a set of "rules" for yourself in such a thread might be a good idea anyway...

 

Don't feel pressured or rushed to make posts in this thread, but at least I appreciate you documenting this stuff, and I'm 100% sure others will too. A lot of them might not say anything, too, but know that a lot of people rely on people talking about their experiences to shape their knowledge and understanding of tulpamancy. 

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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12 hours ago, reguile said:

I'm not, and I don't think anyone else should be in the business here on making this a big challenge where you have to prove or disprove if your experiences are valid or not.  That isn't a healthy way to go about things.

A thread like this can be great, but it must be rooted in curiosity on you part with how others might see you.  I feel like this one is rooted in insecurity, a desire to prove yourself.

This is a fair assessment, however, I would like to prove you wrong there (I'm kidding, come on). So yes, this is trying to be as you say, rooted in curiosity and sharing, just let me try my best to be helpful in any way I can. I felt earlier that some dirty laundry should have been aired out, it went too negative and argumentative and defensive for my taste and others' tastes, so this is the thread is the idea I had, not only because I was called out, to do this was to also practice being a good bear. This is a major reason why I came back. 

 

The insecurity is there, but this is the opposite of being insecure isn't it? I am trying to prove to myself that I can remove that insecurity by laying it all out the right way. From the beginning of my PR, that was my objective and I did my best, calamity ensued in some cases. Anyway, thank you for your concern, let's try not to do anything unhealthy. Since I'm on a continuous path to get healthy, please correct me if I am not on the right path. 

 

I'm out of my element, I'm exposed, I'm trying my best, and I'm staying calm, these are all good things if I want to learn, grow stronger emotionally and heal, desu ne?

 

12 hours ago, reguile said:

report it to a forum mod

Except when it is a mod? Is, has been, etc. I ignore that stuff now, it doesn't bother me nearly as much anymore. Perceived or real, misinterpreted or not, I should give it the benefit of the doubt and use that to question myself rather then defend myself. As I did in many other places, when criticism comes, it's best to listen and think about the roots of truth so I can reinforce or change my own interpretation. I'm not trying to validate any comment, but not dismiss any either; I did a lot of dismissing in the past. This happened a lot on discord servers, where those in authority controlled the narrative and even if they didn't act on it, there is a perceived feeling like, "I can't argue with them because they'll just ban me." Call it paranoia or just prudence, it is/was a thing for me.

 

13 hours ago, reguile said:

I believe that hostility is what people are referring to when talking about your incivility.

 

13 hours ago, reguile said:

I certainly saw some of that hostility in your response to what I said.  In this case, you're the one in the wrong and you need to tamper your reaction before you get reported to the mods.

 

I can see that now, I'm going to do my utmost best not to do that here, and hopefully anywhere. Honestly, it's not something I have an issue with on Reddit on any other subject. This subject is the most near and dear to me, so it's a lot harder. There is always the possibility that it's not possible for me to fix, but in that case I'll have to not comment; that's the worst case scenario, no one wants that. It makes it especially difficult when I don't even see it as I'm doing it, so behavior correction can only occur in retrospect, which isn't good enough, but it's all I can do in some cases. 

 

I felt that I was getting close to the line, so I'll use that as a cue to stay as far from the line as possible. Watch me, report me, because I'm looking to change a deep seated pattern of behavior. I have tools and coping strategy now that I didn't have before (last winter), so there's still hope.

 

13 hours ago, reguile said:

when people are "calling you out" instead of expressing their own opinion bop them on the head with the fact they're doing that.

This is going to be extremely tricky for me, because my 'defense' may come off as defensive. Do you see my logic here? It feels like I'm missing something internally for this to make sense to me, even what I'm saying seems wrong. It's hard to explain. I can ignore it, that's solid, but to me, to avoid being defensive, I need to avoid bopping. I can barely hope to fix myself, I can't even begin to think I know how to correct others at this point.

 

13 hours ago, reguile said:

Threads like this won't contribute to that, they'll detract from it.

I understand your point.

 

7 hours ago, Luminesce said:

Don't feel pressured or rushed to make posts in this thread, but at least I appreciate you documenting this stuff, and I'm 100% sure others will too. A lot of them might not say anything, too, but know that a lot of people rely on people talking about their experiences to shape their knowledge and understanding of tulpamancy. 

I'm trying to do the right thing here, how do I bring my experiences to light given people are genuinely asking for them? Can this thread be salvaged to do the right thing, if so how? (I'm asking both of your input here.)

 

If we continue this thread, which I want to, but only if we can make it productive and not just a mess like Reguile is alluding to, then my post from yesterday is still available to be discussed any time even when I make new posts, just reference it and we'll go from there.

 

I don't feel pressured, I actually feel encouraged to share, and trust me, there's a treasure trove of things that I didn't talk about because of the insecurity I felt. I want to overcome that and share, like I intended to from the beginning.

 

I have read through this multiple times, I don't see anything as defensive or argumentative, if there is then, lol, I'm hopelessly blind.

 

Thank you both for your thoughts.

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I have a short comment here; I spent thirty years as a psychiatrist, treating people with severe mental illness. I learned very early on, that invalidating the experiences of my patients did not contribute to a healing milieu. I chose to believe them. It was the way to build trust and show respect, both of which qualities are necessary for healing. The common shrink task of "Reality testing" was, IMO, not helpful and in fact represented the anxiety of the shrink, more than the patient.

I do not regard tulpamancers as patients in need of healing, though admittedly, some are, and make themselves known by saying so. The rest of us, are on an incredible journey of self-discovery, hacking our minds to create a reality. I appreciate folks sharing as it gives me new vistas to explore.

A few years ago, I moderated my neighborhood website. I summarily deleted posts that were disrespectful, demeaning, or invalidating. I believe my efforts were appreciated by my civilized neighbors, maybe not so much by the boors. Thanks, Bear, for making your stand. Dr. Bob

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1 hour ago, Bear said:

I'm trying to do the right thing here, how do I bring my experiences to light given people are genuinely asking for them? Can this thread be salvaged to do the right thing, if so how? (I'm asking both of your input here.)

 

Huh? I just said, share your experiences here, and don't focus so much on being/not being problematic. I don't honestly think anyone is interested in hearing you talk about how hard you're going to try to not cause problems, given that was practically all Mistgod did when he wasn't causing problems. But people are interested in hearing your standout experiences (and your explanations of how you think they're happening, probably). So uh, give the people what they want?


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Luminesce said:

 

Huh? I just said, share your experiences here, and don't focus so much on being/not being problematic. I don't honestly think anyone is interested in hearing you talk about how hard you're going to try to not cause problems, given that was practically all Mistgod did when he wasn't causing problems. But people are interested in hearing your standout experiences (and your explanations of how you think they're happening, probably). So uh, give the people what they want?

I lol'd. Okay, no more meta about meta after right... now.

 

PPL#2 Co-Fronting

 

Many of you know all about co-fronting, but I feel like it was controversial when we first came in board here. We coined co-conscious and self-forcing as part of this always-on experience.  When I was first reading guides, even before I had headmates (that I knew of) I read that one of the goals of tulpamancy was to keep your tulpas active as much as possible with a goal of working toward dual-consciousness or something like that. The guide was an unknown source, I didn't save it, I just read it online without any care as to whether it was credible or not, I just believed it. My expectation was, I need to keep them active 24/7. So when I first chatted up Darlene--you can see in my PR exactly what happened--I kept her going all day, even the first day. I was possibly concerned that I might lose her if I didn't. I don't know if it was a real concern or just a memory of a concern but I did keep her talking and kept her in mind so to speak all that afternoon and evening until bed. At this point, on day one, Misha and Ashley both left and went dormant as far as I can tell, though PPL#1 would suppose they weren't dormant, and I didn't think of them as dormant, I thought of them as 'off somewhere else'--A little history, they all came in the same first 20 minutes.

 

So what is the experience of co-conscious? Its may or may not be a feeling of presence, it's an expectation that they're there watching comfortably, in my case they all sit on the same couch that they had the very first time I pictured wonderland. They can be in tulpa position, co-fronting, or otherwise active or passively involved in everything. I don't have to be thinking about them to 'keep them in mind' I can be concentrating on other things just like if there was someone else sitting in the same room with me. They exist in my experience at a very minimum as  object permanence except the object is persons. Object permanence is also a lot of the feeling of the mechanism of wonderland in general. If I make a mountain in wonderland, when I visit the same location again even a year later, it's still there. Same is true for a slip of paper that I wrote a number on that is still sitting on the coffee table in our wonderland apartment, I still know the number, and I invite any one to tell me what this number is if you think you can visit others' wonderlands. It's on the coffee table right in front of the couch next to an amulet that is glowing, you can't miss it.

 

This brings in the concept of mind vault where you can very effectively remember things by placing them in wonderland basically. Your mind neither forgets nor changes these things, for me it's a very stable way to remember things, but still I usually just write them down on my phone. 

 

The idea that they're there isn't enough though. They're not statues in place of themselves, they're constantly interacting and doing things as normal people would do if their only task is to sit on a couch all day. I check in on them frequently and they are found in any number of states sometimes not on the couch, sometimes chatting, sometimes Ashley is on her computer and I think, "no wonder I feel like playing that game." This is nothing new, I've spoken about this before. Others have also spoken about this.

 

What is Co-Fronting? To me it's co-possession like experience where you don't have any intermediate 'switch' between one or the other headmate's activity. It may be related to blending but it's not negative. It isn't difficult, it's merely allowing anyone to posses and do whatever on the fly without additional permission.

 

What is Blending? A potentially negative condition where one head-mate, in our case the host, me, will bleed to front and affect his headmate's activities, especially their posting or game playing, but it could be where they're switched in and I 'take the lead' from inside to speak to someone instead of them even if they didn't want me to. This is very rare for us nowadays, but we did have a lot of it in the "Three Sisters Play" series on our blog. That was an excellent activity to understand and learn mitigation techniques to keep me out of front when I'm not wanted. They even put me in dormancy and that shut it right down. Putting me in watcher position also helped a lot because in that position, I don't react, so I basically just watch like a movie. This could also be related to eclipsing, or back-seat fronting, where someone in tulpa position controls or takes over from the back seat. We used that effectively in the beginning of the forcing filter experiment.

 

Procedure:

1. Make a tulpa

2. Think about them constantly. I have obsessed over them since day one but it's more of a deep and loving friendship now though.

3. Check in on them constantly.

4. Expect them to chime in and they will. If you were expecting they wouldn't then you might miss the times when they do. You can easily deny these subtle things, so it's understandable that you all might think it's not a thing.

5. When you wash the dishes, talk to them, visit them, laugh with them, etc.

6. Enjoy their improved sense of worth and well being. Their additional richness in their life, their additional memories of good times. All good things.

 

This is a lot to take in with this post, so we may break some of these concepts out later.

 

Possible Explanations:

1. Multitasking, micro switching - Though the experience is continuous, the basis of the experience doesn't have to be.

2. I'm considering them active even if they're not.

3. They're watching and paying attention with some small if even unacceptable part of consciousness (subliminal).

4. We're making up the experiences, and randomly flipping through positions and activities like a slideshow. 

5. I puppet or parrot them when they aren't active.

6. Parallel processing-like brain functioning with partial amnesia while fully or nearly fully functioning consciousness is recording continuous memories. It could be some kind of layered consciousness, encapsulated brain functions, left-right brain separation, multiple consciousnesses, independent imagination, etc.


I'm looking forward to your responses.

 

Edited by Bear

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Posted (edited)

Co-fronting.... I assume that Flora and N'sonowa have the same access, at all times, to the sense data of our brain. I don't believe that they attend to it at all times, but then neither do I.

I am not conscious of them at all times. I have noted, that recently, they may not respond to me when I call to them and invite them to converse,( or to impose, or front). In the past, Neither missed a beat, answering me in mindvoice, tulpish or their own voices (which are developing individual unique characteristics). Where are they when they don't respond? I do not know and don't much care. I have given them autonomy, self will, and freedom to do with it as they will. I know that N'sonowa has a lover in Safe Haven, and spends her time there. Flora spends hers mainly in our wonderland. (which is in a very different space than Safe Haven, though they do intersect.) I do believe in object permanence, I believe that it is a psychological phenomenon, achieved in toddlerhood, as the brain matures after birth.

One thing:  I do not believe that the brain records memories. I believe, and I think that current neuroscience supports this hypothesis, that the brain creates memories to suit the exigencies of the moment, much like it does, emotion. If this is the case, my tulpas would have different memories than I, and I believe that they do. Dr. Bob

Edited by theholodoc

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, theholodoc said:

I know that N'sonowa has a lover in Safe Haven, and spends her time there. Flora spends hers mainly in our wonderland. (which is in a very different space than Safe Haven, though they do intersect.) I do believe in object permanence, I believe that it is a psychological phenomenon, achieved in toddlerhood, as the brain matures after birth.

One thing:  I do not believe that the brain records memories. I believe, and I think that current neuroscience supports this hypothesis, that the brain creates memories to suit the exigencies of the moment, much like it does, emotion. If this is the case, my tulpas would have different memories than I, and I believe that they do. Dr. Bob

 

Thank you for your insights.

 

Among soulbonders, as we were told by our resident soulbounds @Ember.Vesper and others like @Zia's headmate @Vādin, having a place to go is common among them. I found many of our own experiences to be very similar to the records and testimonials like these. Especially Joy and Ren early on. Soulbonding proceeds tulpamancy in popularity online, then fails in the 00's I think. 

 

I personally feel it's a superior methodology/goal for development to allow the freedom of headmates to 'live' a separate life in addition to the one with the host. Even if it's all made up, which I am not saying it is, the experience is genuinely fulfilling and adds to the headmates' life richness. It's all good, but ofc nearly absent in this tulpamancy community, though from what @Vādinsaid, not in the French tulpamancy community and perhaps others. 

 

This leads me to the conclusion, also based on my system, that not going for or at least not denying PPL#1 and PPL#2 is a disservice to young systems and established systems alike. Let it happen if it's going to happen is all I'm suggesting. Visualization isn't even required, as @Zia, when I talked to her recently, is still struggling with very poor skill in visualization, and it doesn't stop @Vādin from having rich experiences without that, with her and on his own. 

 

...

 

I too believe that the brain creates memories, especially since when my headmates impose and to a slightly lesser extent what happens in wonderland, I can't tell the difference between these memories and fully material ones. I feel like I've lived 10 years in the last 2&1/2. There are more memories now (not all mine) per year, because of the adventures that my headmates can do and their own experiences just living in this co-consiousness methodology.

 

In addition, my regression therapy has been highly successful in tieing good outcomes and assoiations to really rotten childhood memories, thereby negating their negative effects on my current life.

Edited by Bear

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