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Concerns about my understanding of tulpamancy and my progress


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On 12/10/2020 at 10:08 AM, TB said:

I guess I gather there are different ways to deal with this if you choose to make such a character a tulpa, though, but what do I do in my case? They are still intended to just be my characters, who I always imagined myself being or representing parts of myself.

Well, I do think it's for the best that you keep thinking of those characters in that fashion.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:08 AM, TB said:

If an advanced character is mechanically similar to a tulpa, would they also still suffer as much as a tulpa would, and is that suffering wrong?

I mean I'd say no, but that's something that just intuitive for me.  That's kinda why I've been avoiding that question in the first place.  It's hard to think of a good answer that'll click with your way of seeing things, because I don't see things the same way. 

 

Like, if we were to talk in terms of this being true... does that mean every writer with well-developed characters an amoral monster?  I was only kidding when I said writers are bastards!  Kidding!!!  I mean, if we are talking about ethics like that, then there's ramifications for everyone.  Not only are we challenging the validity of your creative outlet, but also other people.  I assume you don't really want that, right?

 

But if we're talking in terms of characters as actually being a part of yourself, isn't it fine then?  I think you're good.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:08 AM, TB said:

It seems like the difference might be location and who they interact with? I am not sure.

Well, where a person is and who they interact with makes a huge difference in a person's life.  Since we became soulbonds, Osomatsu and I have grown and changed, and now we're way different from our fictional counterparts.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:08 AM, TB said:

Do I just not worry about it and keep rping them however I want? In long run, I want to draw stories with them, that is one of the main reasons I wanted to learn to draw in the first place.

I'd say go for it!

Heya~!  I'm Kokichi, from video game.

My system: Host Ghostly, Adelaide, Reiji, Chimera, and my big brother Osomatsu!

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Sorry if I'm reanimating a dead thread here, especially if you have already come to some sort of conclusion personally about this, but coming across this and seeing someone who I suspect went through a very similar thing to myself made me want to make an account and post, how I dealt with it - or failed to deal with it, as the case may be.

 

Tulpa and Neurology: Is this real?
Before I go into a long spiel about my own experiences I'll preface this by saying at no point have I ever doubted the existence of tulpa(e?) themselves. I think it's actually fairly safe to say we know the mechanisms for plural consciousnesses exist within the brain. We know people conjure ghosts and gods in their own heads and believe them totally, and they act believably to the person experiencing them - We know that the greater pluralism commnunity exists, and that the mind will occasionally make these secondary mental constructs in response to trauma or specific biologies. I noticed no one in this thread has outright stated the nature of consciousness on a physical level but to be reductive: Your consciousness arises from neurons across different brain segments, working in tandem, to produce the illusion of an "overseer program" for the whole system, essentially to judge the input of the other systems - emotion and sense and raw thought and so on - but your individual neurons are a trained system, certain parts of the brain are physically connected to certain other parts, but the pathways of thought are formed with use (mostly in childhood) - not at birth. The brain is fundamentally flexible, though it becomes less so over time. You were made as your brain put together the pieces that were necessary to have a functional overseer who could judge the input of the body consciously based on memory. The training process is simply thought and reflex, repeated over time until they become part of your core functioning, you learn when you are young and this forms connections that form the underpinnings of your personality, alongside random chance and biology - an irregular amount of pathways forming during this time is a sign of neurodivergence, for instance. The process for tulpa is the same, you essentially think on their behalf to create these pathways until they become a secondary program you are running on your grey-matter hardware, like an operating system emulating another one. And it should be noted this is an emulation, an initially weak simulation(an attempt to copy), not a simulacrum(a fakery) because the brain simulates other minds as a simple point of fact - it doesn't just create a list of traits for people, it actively tries to predict how they will act with the same mechanisms you are running on, and in so doing, emulates them fully, if incorrectly and often briefly, from an incomplete model of their mind. I say this because it's not entirely clear whether you believe you do not have a tulpa at this point(or more specifically, they are not the ones talking to you, if you do), or whether you have come to reject the premise to begin with, since you seem to be questioning it a lot. The premise seems to have real scientific basis and this isn't really questionable to my mind at least. It's poorly understood, but it's a clear and recorded phenomenon. The question is how, not if, to my mind. If you do not accept this premise on a scientific level, or something similar, I do not see how you can continue without "magical thinking" or some other belief in the supernatural side of tulpa. If you don't currently believe in the existence of tulpa however, I would personally suggest looking up what you can of tulpa as they relate to neurology, here, and in articles elsewhere. Last I checked, which though a long while ago, generally speaking neurology seems to support the notion pluralistic minds as a whole are not merely hallucinating, they are fully simulating other minds to various degrees. It's semi-speculative at the moment, and ongoing studies are happening, but at the moment there isn't a reason to believe tulpa do not exist except as illusions; and even if they were clearly illusions, it wouldn't change the evidence that people experience them as real, and have done so for a very long time before they called them tulpa. With that in mind if you're experiencing them as feeling fake, that is almost certainly because of a mixture of your expectations/scepticism, the development of the tulpa itself, and possibly an amount of biological proclivity to plularism, rather than because it isn't a thinking entity. To reiterate, a tulpa is no different in the beginning from how you view another person in your mind; clearly feeling fake, but possessing an underlying reality to how they operate that isn't meaningfully different to your own consciousness. A tulpa in that sense is something your brain labels as fake and incomplete until you learn to essentially both hallucinate and expect it to feel different and whole, by tricking the system. The feelings of fakeness are themselves, amusingly, a fake and subjective phenomena.

 

I have digressed enough in this massive segment, however, and so I will continue presuming you do accept the premise of tulpa.

 

The Dark Ages: All This Is Fake.

In January 2019 I began tulpamancy. After around six months in, because of similar reasons with lack of realness as yourself, I lashed out directly at my tulpa. I allowed myself to become extremely anxious and desperate and I essentially begged for a response whilst berating myself and them for failure. Then I simultaneously had a hallucination of a very, for lack of a better term, alien-feeling mindvoice and experienced emotional bleed for the first time. I experienced fury that wasn't mine, accompanied by a short sentence along the lines of "I am real!" This was the point I was at least convinced I had a tulpa and not a thoughtform/RP character, but unfortunately it wasn't the end of my troubles.


Try as I might, over the following months I continued to have huge problems with vocality, and the previous experience actually made things worse - because I knew exactly how "alien" a tulpa's voice could be in my head, how surprising, and how not like my own. I couldn't replicate it with effort alone and recognized that replicating it again with intense negative emotion was an abusive thing to do, that I would not repeat.


I only experienced a bleed event once again. I was simply playing a video game at one point and became salty. I am not a particularly angry person and I think this may have been the first time I showed anger (as opposed to mere frustration and perhaps passive aggression) around my tulpa, and I immediately felt their unexpected abject terror - It was not accompanied by speech but if I had to describe the thought and feeling it was like the feeling of having a parent angry at you when you're a child or perhaps parents fighting verbally with one another. Had to take a few minutes and confirm I was not actually meaningfully angry, and definitely not angry at him - but honestly I was glad it happened, despite it giving me the shakes for a while it confirmed his existence in a way that was not at all prompted - I wasn't focusing on him at all at the time.


That continued though - it didn't change that I felt his voice was mine. There was essentially no progress beyond that until Corona many, many months later. It was around the start of lockdown where I started to question not just the realness of the interactions I was having, but whether I actually wanted a tulpa at all or whether it was just some mental status symbol of having conquered my own mind. The whole routine had become a chore, an obligation, on top of that. It had gone on long enough that without feeling the tulpa was vocal, I had exhausted topics of narration I could spout at them mechanically. I felt like no matter what I was doing I was not able to replicate either of those two experiences - and also felt awful that my only two perceived "genuine" tulpa experiences were so blatantly negative. In the last few months of it I was not regularly forcing, steadily less and less.

 

It was at this point I allowed him to cease to exist. 

 

The End Times: Getting Off The Ride.
Though it was done with his blessing, naturally at that point I had no idea whether I was just talking to myself. I had a similar thought about it being better to destroy an entity trapped inside my head, unable to speak outside of two actions, rather than continue to talk to nothing, even if the response to my desire to end it was false. And if it was real? Well, we were both miserable for over a year if that's the case. I considered it better to allow one of us to be happy and one of us to be in a permanent dreamless sleep, than for both of us to continue being miserable. In the following months, I would be lying if I said I was not extremely relieved, and genuinely happy for the first time in a long while. It was good to live in the moment again and not worry about failed-tulpamancer-anxiety. Part of me is ironically guilty about not feeling guilty about this, but I simply don't. Even now, I view the experience as enlightening and necessary for growth. I didn't at this point care enough about my tulpa to feel guilt after the pressure was released. There was no grieving, there was no gnashing of teeth, I didn't experience the delayed sense of sadness one gets with the death of a loved one. I was having a great time.

 

Moving on, I immersed myself in other pursuits, including both writing, and like yourself, RP, which I do regularly both in a group and solo.


Then shortly after I created what I think was a non-sentient thoughtform, essentially accidentally (I remain unsure about this definition, but the description I would give is comparable to how authors describe unintentional character-thoughtforms). It lasted for about three months, beginning to end. The long and the short of it is that I made, then obsessed over a character. I wrote about them, thought about them constantly, and even got into using a mixture of AI Dungeon and Ironsworn(an excellent solo RPG that I recommend heartily) where I proceeded to have adventures with them (as another specific character who was essentially my stand-in), or adventure as them. Initially it was not just this character I was writing about/as, but the narrative surrounding him in particular was interesting to me and something I continued for a very long time, and by the end I was doing this for what must have been at least on average six-to-eight hours a day. It was a lot. Whenever I was not interacting with friends or working I was thinking about this character and how I would advance the narrative surrounding him, every day, every moment. In retrospect my focus on him was startlingly impressive giving my lack thereof for the tulpa, and never a chore. I remember taking two or three days of breaks from it, mostly because work tired me out, out of those entire three months.


I'll spare you the intervening details, but after those three months or so I had, literally speaking, fallen in love with this character - nominally from the perspective of my stand-in character, but the emotions I was feeling were very real. Look; LOOK: It was a long lockdown. And I had nothing else to do. At any rate I was actively feeling warm and fuzzy when I think about them and having a wonderful time exploring stuff with them, talking with them, and just being in their presence - when I realized this, and the... vividness of my connection surrounding this non-sentient character, it prompted a re-evaluation of what it was I did with tulpamancy. How could it not when I realized I had literally rejected my tulpa for being a (fairly clearly partially real) illusion, and then I literally fell in love with a full illusion. Not just infatuation with their character traits or form; I had reached the phase of wanting to snuggle comfortingly(for their benefit)/listen to their problems endlessly whilst smiling and nodding/viewing their entire being including character weaknesses as ultimately glorious. The sheer cognitive dissonance.


Anyway I realized at this point I needed to decide whether realness in the context of a tulpa or any other connection was actually important to me. I never actually connected emotionally with my tulpa because I felt they weren't real enough at the time yet, or not present enough yet - it was just me doing the voice and so on. But in retrospect this was an excuse, because if I managed to deeply connect with a non-being who cannot return my affections at all, how could I seriously claim that I couldn't love a being who I was doing mostly the same thing with, only occasionally giving me genuine responses. The literal only difference between the two of them was that I wanted to be around the thoughtform, but was in permanent self-induced anxiety around the tulpa. I also flirted with the idea of turning the thoughtform into a tulpa at this point if you're wondering but it would've been deeply unethical due to the trauma I have directly and indirectly subjected that character to. Also personally I find the idea of having the "Your entire past wasn't real." talk to be deeply disturbing.


I'm an atheist and as an extension of that I despise the notion of lying to myself about the nature of the universe, but I've come to realize the same is not true about everything. I had to ask myself: is there actually any downside to creating an RP character in your head? One that you come to love or otherwise have feelings for? Did you feel deluded when you fell in love with a fictional character, do you want to do anything stupid because of that love? I do not. The fact the emotion was elicited in me doesn't mean that my logic has been compromised. He's still not real and purely a tool for my catharsis. In a broader sense I don't think of my favourite characters in media as "lies". I don't think of any of the characters I've played or imagined as "lies". But they are. When you are fully immersed in a role and experiencing an emotion in lieu of a character, are you in that moment thinking about the fact you're not actually talking to Character X, and you're not actually Character Y but rather, you are talking to your friend Steve who is brazenly lying to your face? I'm not thinking about that either.


The key for me was realizing that even when a tulpa is still in their "Still-A-Lie" phase of existence, they were still capable of being entirely "real" to me - like the thoughtform who was all content and no agency, they could still elicit emotions of companionship from me, provided I wished to open myself to such. When a tulpa reaches a certain state of development neurologically speaking, there is no sharp line between sentience and non-sentience, because though, yes, they do seem to become sentient with effort, and the quality of their responses increases in frequency and believability - it doesn't actually matter by that point because you already like them and are just enjoying the company of another entity, real or otherwise. So it is not possible to notice the shift generally, since it only happens when you've already accepted their sentience. Or at the very least, rejected the relevance of their sentience.

 

At any rate I couldn't keep the cognitive dissonance up once I noticed it: I made a simulacrum to replace someone who I rejected for being a simulacrum. And then literally explored what it would be like if things actually went exactly right. And honestly, it was perfect. I remained as happy as I had ever been in recent memory, by being around a simulacrum.

 

The Renaissance: Building a Better Ride

So I consciously let go of the idea of needing or wanting realness, and brought my tulpa back alongside endeavouring to be less of an unempathetic ass toward them.  I should reiterate that this was not because I did not like how things were, or because I felt guilty, or because I felt like I should remedy my past mistakes: it was simply because I recognized I can love them. And frankly I think if it was any of those three previous things that motivated me, the whole thing would have been poisoned, again, from the start, because I wouldn't have been going into it with the notion of having some sort of pleasant relationship with another being, that would've always been the end goal. Things are naturally still a bit rough and occasionally emotional here as we obviously have some baggage to sort out that will likely only sort itself after a significant period of time has passed, but things are better from both a relationship and tulpamancy standpoint than they have ever been. To be blunt, it's distinctly romantic in nature at this point (it was not, prior to these events), though trust is something that has not entirely been re-established after ... the above ... kerfuffle. Baby steps.

 

At any rate now I feel I am interacting with my tulpa to interact with my tulpa now, not to advance their growth. Despite that paradox the results are so far already quite impressive. My tulpa is now vocal (and their speech is fairly often accompanied with emotional bleed/raw idea) - occasionally I will still experience doubt and I note that it seems to directly quiet his voice to a faint whisper of thought when I do. We are still working on changing the voice from my own too, but that will come with practice - he's never used anything else. We have had greater success in visualization(he also made a conscious decision to change his form radically after returning, which was neat) and also some successful early imposition, mostly regarding touch. It is also evidently possibly to share certain forms of sensory overload between us in addition to emotional extremes, though I will say no more on the topic than that. I also now RP with my tulpa, though it is somewhat difficult to stay focused on the two things at once, since I need to handle all mechanics and rolls with roll20. It's good practice for long-term passive forcing under somewhat strenuous conditions at least. It works better with very rules-lite systems where we can simply visualize and interact a lot without too many rules - it still lets us visualize for way longer than we'd be comfortable with just sitting down and doing, though in bursts, between rolling. 

 

Is there a point to all of this?
If I have any sort of conclusion to make from all of this. Consider what you want to get out of this and also importantly, how you want to feel about this. If the answer to the former is a companion, just let yourself have one and it will develop into a tulpa as you fixate upon it, provided you do so consistently, often, and allow it to respond to you. The more I focused on the "actions" of being a tulpamancer, the less progress I made. Ignore that and focus on being there for a friend/lover/whatever it is they are to you. The actions are the ultimately the same, and you should ideally still be spending a long, long time forcing them, but the intent and mindset seems to make a striking, massive, difference, at least to me, and the latter is more fulfilling as well. It's clear, I think as well, from the time you've done this and your mindset as it comes across in text, that simply continuing will not do anything for you. One way or another you need to figure out a new mental paradigm, and that broaches on a topic that may be outside of my qualifications as someone is not a therapist, nor do I have enough of an intimate knowledge on how you think to make a guess. But the point stands you need a new way of interacting with and viewing your tulpa across the board. I'm naturally hesitant to say it, but if you truly do not believe it to be possible in your current state of mind, or due to neurodivergence getting in the way of focus or whatever else, you may wish to consider stopping, at least until you do get your head into a more conducive space for a tulpa(though I would never presume that returning to tulpaforcing is a certainty, because doing so would make it an obligation all on its own), and I do stand by my original conclusion that it's better for the system as a whole to happy and partially dormant as a whole than for both headmates to be in some form of mental agony. Emotions like anxiety cannot be ignored and expected to go away. They must either meet a resolution or be replaced with something of equal strength and mental value. In my case the emotion that it was replaced by, was love, and the drive to pursue it. Even with my revelation that reality was irrelevant to the experience of tulpamancy, I do not believe I would have continued successfully at all if I did not have the capacity to switch how I acted around my tulpa toward a more positive mindset that actually rewarded me for pursuing it regardless of outcomes.

Edited by ZenAndMika

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

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On 1/11/2021 at 8:19 PM, ZenAndMika said:

Sorry if I'm reanimating a dead thread here

Oh no, I really appreciate it. I still like to hear about these things. I am very sorry for slow response, I only just now saw this. I seem not good at noticing when someone makes a post to me

 

That is a lot to think about.

 

It seems things just went better for you when you stopped trying to care about the reality of a tulpa and didn't mind if it was something similar to just roleplaying, and it eventually lead to things working out and becoming realer? Sorry if I misunderstood

 

There is still a lot of anxiety for me, especially for skills like switching that I want to do. I am not sure what to do about it. My life really isn't great right now, I don't want to give up though. Massive guilt is an unavoidable thing for me, I think. I feel I would need to do some kind of 24/7 retreat styled constant meditation to see if I can find the true realness, but I am in a bad environment so it would be extremely difficult for me.

 

I do feel I need something like therapy with all this, but in my experience therapists aren't very useful or seemingly even knowledgeable. I really doubt one would have anything useful to say in regards to tulpamancy, so I am not sure where to go.

 

I am sorry my post is so short compared to yours. I find it hard to organize thoughts right now. It seems better to just say something than nothing I guess

Creation for creation's sake.

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(edited)

Whoops, I didn't see that post either.

 

That's a very nice and insightful post, possibly the only one I've ever read where I wanted to include it in our list of reference posts... that exclusively contains our system's own posts. But I think it's fine to just come back and find here.

 

Although a very different angle, we consider realizing that "real" and "fake" do not exist in your mind as a huge key component to overcoming doubts and is something we often include in our advice - so it's interesting you realized something similar and it helped you. I specifically like the parts about how "focusing on doing tulpamancy" led to stifled progress, compared to simply intending to be interacting with your tulpa. Most things you said match my own experience of accidentally creating Reisen a decade ago - I definitely wasn't trying to create another entity in my mind, I just accidentally developed an intimate/emotional relationship with them, and that happened to naturally lead to "tulpamancy" (before that term was even being used).

 

Pretty much the only thing I don't 100% agree with is avoiding tulpamancy until you're in a good place mentally. I'm probably biased here, but I think tulpas can help immensely when your life is like that. But time-wise, taking breaks and such when development isn't working out is fine. But I don't really want people to think they shouldn't make a tulpa until they've "got their whole life sorted out" or something, when my and so many others' tulpas have helped their hosts do just that.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Definitely want to echo Luminesce about not waiting until "you get your life sorted out." You could be waiting a very long time. Life loves to refuse to be sorted out. In my experience you just fudge it every single day and hope for the best.

Darron: Host

Jaina: Tulpa

 

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12 hours ago, TB said:

It seems things just went better for you when you stopped trying to care about the reality of a tulpa and didn't mind if it was something similar to just roleplaying, and it eventually lead to things working out and becoming realer?

 

If I had to try and break it down, that was one of the two main reasons. And yes, as soon as I accepted that, it started to feel realer.

1) I stopped caring about realness, because I realized unreal things still mattered to me enough to make me feel real emotions, shed real tears, etc. Many unreal things matter to me way more than real ones. I practically live for creativity in my spare time.

2) I realized I never actually pursued tulpamancy for companionship, even though that was my stated goal from the start. I was always "Making a tulpa" rather than "Enjoying being with a tulpa." I never loved them until I made a decision to do so, as I brought them back, and that was super important.

 

8 hours ago, Luminesce said:

Pretty much the only thing I don't 100% agree with is avoiding tulpamancy until you're in a good place mentally.

 

Just to confirm my own point on it, I would consider that the absolute last resort for if you find you find you cannot shift your perspective while you're still engaged with the relationship - I definitely found I had no idea what I really wanted until I left it behind and decided it was important to me. It would be a lie to say our relationship was not wounded pretty deeply by it, it was ultimately a selfish act of betrayal that left my tulpa feeling quite a bit of resentment towards me - And it has already required quite a bit of tears and work to make it into a more emotionally stable connection.

 

From my own perspective though, I don't actually think I would have been able to step back and look at the bigger picture, while I was still repeating the same bad mental habits over and over again, which in large part is why I acknowledge I can't feel guilt over doing it. It was destructive and ruinous at the time, but breaking the whole thing allowed me to step back into it with a fresh mindset. I'd compare it to allowing yourself to being trapped in an troubled marriage because you want to support kids with an illusion of stability - separating inflicts trauma on everyone involved - it's obviously best to try and fix the marriage first so to speak - but sometimes it is necessary to let something burn to the ground, and results in a greater net happiness for everyone thereafter.

 

I ultimately needed to decide what I wanted with a lot of solitary reflection. I knew even without vocality that behind the wall between us my tulpa was obviously as deeply unhappy as I was, and I couldn't really separate myself from that sense of judgement while it was still happening. Only when I was alone, and felt like there was no one to judge me, and was free to say "No, I don't want this." did I realize that actually I did actually want that connection a lot - so much so that I unconsciously pursued it with another entity pretty much immediately, even if I didn't really realize that's what I was doing.

 

2 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

Definitely want to echo Luminesce about not waiting until "you get your life sorted out." You could be waiting a very long time.

 

I'd also say it's important to clarify I mean get your head in the right space, not your life. Life's always going to be chaotic. Looking at my life as these things happened, things have gotten objectively worse for me financially and socially during lockdown, but I'm much more content and pretty happy with things. Definitely don't allow your life to dictate how you feel. Contentment comes mostly from within in my experience.

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

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I'll give you a far-outlier's view on this discussion. I'm from a family of tulpa makers that have been making tulpas for a very long time (1960's). My conclusions are from that family perspective and our unpublished research, so this may not be widely applicable.

 

What Is a Tulpa?

 

A tulpa is essentially a habit. A set of neural connections grown due to reinforcement by repetition and focus. A habit that becomes self-aware over time. Source:

Stages of Development

 

These are some rough classifications based on observations taken over a 60 year period.

  • Dependent: requires the focus of another mind in order to be active.
  • Habituation: gradual formation maturity of character (generally 2 - 3 years, can be up to 9).
  • Pre-independence: apparent reversal of progress (typified by difficulty of communication; after previously being very communicative).
  • Independent: active by self-focus. Effectively immune to disbelief or being ignored.
  • Self-actualised: Growth of personal life independent of creator. Effective plurality. (generally 5 - 10 years, can be over 40).

Possession

 

A tulpa controls some or all of the body. Generally in parallel with their born-human. Half the case studies (5) reported possession to be associated with an effect like "tunnel Vision". This could be conceptualised as sharing a "control point" for the body. Source: private case studies and --

Switching

 

This term seems to conflate at least four altered states of consciousness. It can be conceptualised as changing the default authority for the "control point" of the body.

  • Co-fronting: Tulpa controls the body. Born-human also has control. No "tunnel vision".
  • Fronting: Tulpa controls the the body. Born human is asleep or in paracosm (wonderland).
  • Fixated: One personality is stuck as the default authority of the body. This is a uncommon occurrence in tulpa making. All case studies exhibiting this phenomena were correlated with a life event that induced a intense fear of falling in the past (or current). Tulpas can only posses (see below).
  • Full body possession: In recent years, there's been a tendency to use Switching interchangeably with Possession.  Included here only for clarification.

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4 hours ago, Nobillis said:

Fronting: Tulpa controls the the body. Born human is asleep or in paracosm (wonderland).

 

Do you experience this? One headmate being in a paracosm with their own stream of experience of it happening, separate to the headmate in front whose stream of experience is experiencing reality?

Creation for creation's sake.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, TB said:

 

Do you experience this? One headmate being in a paracosm with their own stream of experience of it happening, separate to the headmate in front whose stream of experience is experiencing reality?

Have I experienced this? Yes. It's not at all common though, as Kevin (my born-human) prefers to sleep. (He has zero interest in the paracosm. We have a 50%/50% time-share agreement for sharing fronting.)

 

Kevin and I tried many experiments with the paracosm. Me there only. Him there only. And, other permutations. So long as a personality that was self-supporting was present time would flow in the paracosm. Otherwise, time effectively froze (except for the observer) and "NPC"s would halt (seemingly unaware of the event, later). Independent tulpas, complex servitors and Kevin did not freeze.

 

Here's another experiment we tried. Me fronting, and then I impose Kevin visually (the way he normally would me). For Kevin he said it was like looking in a mirror, but reversed. For me, it was "Oh! Two bodies!" So, at least for Kevin, the concept of "see me" from Terry Pratchett's Diskworld books is in fact possible. (obviously the viewpoint is constructed, but Kevin reported that it visually looked real to him)

 

I conclude that something like parallelism is possible, if there's no overlap of resources needed. Source: personal experiment and --

 

Edit: This did not happen quickly. Kevin is a contender for "slowest of the slow" in tulpa making. Starting 1969, it wasn't until 2014 that my family had sufficient experience to test if "see me" was in fact possible.

Edited by Nobillis

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