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Could technological advances make tulpae obsolete?


Dear One

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Does it even need emotions? Maybe there could be a variation of the Turing test: if it appears to have emotions, then for all practical purposes, it does.

 

HAL killed the Explorer's crew because he was scared. He wouldn't have done that without being scared. He thought. And I suppose while murder is a bad example of an AI's intelligence, that's still a valid point. If an AI can't do something like get angry that a solution isn't working, it'll just keep trying to walk into a corner wondering why it can't get anywhere. If it gets angry, it'll get more irrational and try something more immediate.

Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Anyway, to think an AI could ever be sentient and "human" is silly. We can't even comprehend how the human mind works or what is life. We can make a "somehow it works like that" layout, but it will always be desperately inferior to the human mind, primarily because we are basing ourselves on exterior reactions (feelings, cold logic, struggle to live, etc), and not on what is really life. Those machines may be incredibly advanced, think more quickly than the human mind, but it will never feel emotions or the like, only EMULATE them. And if you think something feels emotions because it is faking them, then you're deluding yourself.

We don't have the life blueprints and we will never have them (and with the dumb materialistic bigotry of the scientist lobbies we will never progress in this area), we are like someone who try to draw people without understanding perspective, without beginning by simple forms, etc. If one day, after years, he succeeds to draw something that looks lifelike, he won't be able to say why. This is humanity trying to to create life.

And also, those AI prophets are often close to the transhumanists, who are the worst kind of people ever, repeating every mistake of mankind (create a new man was the goal of nazism and communism), misinterpreting myths in the dumbest way possible to make them say "WE CAN REBEL AND BECOME GODS" ignoring all the myths and old wisdom (and even current religions) say "live proudly your life as a man and do what a man must do", and feeding the old lies of obscurantist Middle Ages without even knowing why (every historian will tell you Middle Ages are nothing but a Renaissance artificial construction). In other words, thinking about this shit will never do good to you. If we do, we will fall like Icarus because he forgot the wings he had were false. And we will never have true wings.

 

On a more serious note, I'm sure the rational AI has a great potential in the future, and can even take some intellectual work on a limited scale. It might also be revolutionary in the video games world (imagine galge when you CAN hang out with the characters? Wonderful but the translation will be painful). To create a successful one, I think you have to make a logic blueprint then make it have a period of "infancy" where you will help it to learn manually what it can and must do.

 

And you seem to forget we are machines (what a strange thing to say for a believer like me), not gods. Men are made to live in nature, not to recreate it.

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Sylla, looking at the big picture in vague is why you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Intelligence is a complicated puzzle, we analyze every piece before we try to construct it.

You should read some of Marvin Minsky's theories.

Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Intelligence is the capacity to understand and re-use what you see. This is something never shown in programming. A program only does what it's supposed to do, and their "learning" capacities are way too limited.

About the brain. You cannot know how it works, or "touch" a piece of the puzzle, you can only make assumptions about it by seeing the consequences of its actions. We don't even understand the brain or how dreams work, but we're already talking about making sentient AI... it shows how serious it is. And you can make a complex programs, but IF THEN ELSE will never make a living being.

You wish too hard.

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That's cute you talk about AI and sound like you only know BASIC and C-likes.

Even though I think McCarthy is wrong in some of his theories, there's a reason he conceived of Lisp.

We don't need to know the brain inside and out. We don't need programs that are hard-coded. Intelligence is an illusion, and trick. You can make a robot that looks like it has complicated hunting patterns but really it just instinctual tried to stay away from other robots of the same pack so it surrounds the pray, not even thinking about it at all. Actually that's what arctic foxes do.

So, you have fun learning the brain inside and out and hard-coding it in Java.

Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Those machines may be incredibly advanced, think more quickly than the human mind, but it will never feel emotions or the like, only EMULATE them. And if you think something feels emotions because it is faking them, then you're deluding yourself.

Would you say your emotions are real?

 

And also, those AI prophets are often close to the transhumanists, who are the worst kind of people ever, repeating every mistake of mankind (create a new man was the goal of nazism and communism)

Except nazism has actually very little to do with Nietzschean philosophy.

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"That's cute you talk about AI and sound like you only know BASIC and C-likes."

 

The formula isn't even mine. Also, I don't know magic, sorry. Everything is a variation of simple algorithms, like everything in mathematics comes from additions and subtractions. If human intelligence is a big script, it is way too complex and long to be understood, at least not before a very long time, and I doubt it would.

I'm also not used to argue in English with some sci-fi zealot, so I'll stop here. I don't even see why I should talk about the existence of something that doesn't even exists.

 

And what you're talking about isn't a trick, it's a hard-coded pattern. Do you really think you can get away with those? It will still be inhumanly hard and complex to make a robot which would be able to "think". And even if it was possible, the moment your "tricks" won't correspond to the situation and won't be able to be adapted, say goodbye to your robot.

 

Lolimancer

Of course my emotions are real, I feel them. Isn't it enough? Cogito ergo sum.

And the concept of a "new man" existed centuries before Nietzschean philosophy, I don't even see why you're talking about it.

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Of course my emotions are real, I feel them. Isn't it enough? Cogito ergo sum.

Were you an android, would you feel your emotions as real, even though they've just been programmed into your being to recreate those of humans? Again, what defines an emotion as objectively "real"? If you're denying that a machine could gain a sense of self, why do you say men are machines?

 

And the concept of a "new man" existed centuries before Nietzschean philosophy, I don't even see why you're talking about it.

Well, it's sort of a common misconception i guess, and your "creating a new man was the goal of nazism" made me remember it.

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