Dear One

Could technological advances make tulpae obsolete?

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"That's cute you talk about AI and sound like you only know BASIC and C-likes."

 

The formula isn't even mine. Also, I don't know magic, sorry. Everything is a variation of simple algorithms, like everything in mathematics comes from additions and subtractions. If human intelligence is a big script, it is way too complex and long to be understood, at least not before a very long time, and I doubt it would.

I'm also not used to argue in English with some sci-fi zealot, so I'll stop here. I don't even see why I should talk about the existence of something that doesn't even exists.

 

And what you're talking about isn't a trick, it's a hard-coded pattern. Do you really think you can get away with those? It will still be inhumanly hard and complex to make a robot which would be able to "think". And even if it was possible, the moment your "tricks" won't correspond to the situation and won't be able to be adapted, say goodbye to your robot.

 

Lolimancer

Of course my emotions are real, I feel them. Isn't it enough? Cogito ergo sum.

And the concept of a "new man" existed centuries before Nietzschean philosophy, I don't even see why you're talking about it.

 

How am I a sci-fi zealot? You're the one who thinks intelligence is some sort of inconceivable magic only God could muster.

Also holy shit. Intelligence is hard-coded? Do you even know what the brain is? I'll let you guess. Hint: It's isn't made of cogs and pullies.

We already have artificial neural networks that can recognize images. It isn't hard-coded, it isn't magic, it isn't fictional. It's a system that uses and creates patterns to perform logic. Just like organic beings.

You want to know what intelligence is? Chair is dark blue, dark blue is depressing, Chair is depressing, remove chair. Depression compromised. That's your "hard-coded enigma". Nothing but reacting to an environment, through emotions, something that can't be ignored. All processed through a big neural network, patterns. That's all it is. Patters. Concepts that are similar to other concepts. How is that impossible?

 

And, then again, like I said before, you appear to not know much about the field of AI or any of it's theories, so why would I assume you even knew what a neural network is anyway. You just look at yourself in the mirror and say "welp, I don't get it, I guess it's impossible!".


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Were you an android, would you feel your emotions as real, even though they've just been programmed into your being to recreate those of humans? Again, what defines an emotion as objectively "real"? If you're denying that a machine could gain a sense of self, why do you say men are machines?

 

You cannot prove I'm not an android, programmed to say I do feel emotions. But if you can feel yours, it means you're not.

 

Machines, but not only.

I'm saying that men are machines in the sense that they all have the same emotional system and are the fruit of their environment. The free will of men is very narrow, if it exists at all. Their goal is to live in this world and reproduce, and everything within them is made to allow them to. In this regard, they are machines, but even if they can't escape their nature, their cultures, philosophies, and need to knowledge proves they are way more than that.

I personally see men as souls within incredibly complex machines. You can translate soul as "whatever gives consciousness", and their association with the nervous system gives it the capacity to clearly think, feel, etc. Somehow like water and pipes combined to make a fountain.

 

I don't believe in an sentient AI because I think the pipes are way too complex to be made, or they will be until dozens of years, if not centuries, and even when we'll finally be able to do it, we will lack the "water". It will only be machines with the illusion of life.

I would rethink my judgement if we find a way to get that "water" and if we understand how it works.

 

Also holy shit. Intelligence is hard-coded? Do you even know what the brain is? I'll let you guess. Hint: It's isn't made of cogs and pullies.

Do you really think it's what I'm talking about? When did I say "intelligence is hard-coded"? Do you think your moronic pattern is "intelligence"? Are you a troll or just very stupid?

Can't you even understand what difficulty because of incredible complexity means? Are you one of those people thinking everything can fly as long as you attach wings at it? I don't even want to know the answer. If a man (or I don't know how many men) can write such a complex, coherent program, then they truly deserve the title of gods.

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So you basically disregarded everything I said and promptly said "no can't be done" after I gave you some valid points of how intelligence functions in addition to criticizing how you think intelligence is some sort of magic only humans can possess.

Well, I'm sorry, you're right. Nobody can write a neural network. I heard of people who have, but, they must be blatant liars.

And you know what? I don't think Marvin Minsky really exists. I think he's really just a big, elaborate hoax made by these weird cultists called "scientists". Pff, "science", that isn't real, everyone knows that. Can't fool me.


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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How more pathetic can you get, nerd? You can't even read a word right, let alone a sentence, and you're bragging about bringing "points"?

Put your Asimov books aside and read a dictionary.

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How more pathetic can you get, nerd? You can't even read a word right, let alone a sentence, and you're bragging about bringing "points"?

Put your Asimov books aside and read a dictionary.

 

Oh, wow, an ad homonym. I guess you win the argument.

Now, why not correct me in any errors I may have performed instead of further proving to me how you really have no idea what AI, programming, or intelligence in general is about and you just want to shoot your uneducated mouth off about something you know nothing about.


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Now, now, play nicely with the other kids.

 

Personally, I think true AI will never exist, but we can come pretty darn close if we try. (Although this might take a very long time) But still, I'd take tulpae > AI any day.


Name: Philip

Age: (7 June, 2012)

Form: Male teenage human, light brown hair, green eyes, jeans & hoodie

 

Name: Amalia

Age: (15 Dec, 2012)

Form: Female teenage fairy, black hair, blue eyes, white dress

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My sources are in French and I don't feel the need to translate them.

Also, I don't see why I should try to explain common sense to some retard who, reading

And what you're talking about isn't a trick, it's a hard-coded pattern.

understands

Also holy shit. Intelligence is hard-coded? Do you even know what the brain is? I'll let you guess. Hint: It's isn't made of cogs and pullies.

So for you, patterns = intelligence, even though you said

Intelligence is an illusion, and trick. You can make a robot that looks like it has complicated hunting patterns but really it just instinctual tried to stay away from other robots of the same pack so it surrounds the pray, not even thinking about it at all.

Did I say neural networks cannot be made? No, I said repetitively something entirely different. As I said, before explaining me my brain is made of neurons and that scientists exist (you shattered the way I see the world, congrats), grab a dictionary.

But anyway, I don't expect much from some sci-fi butthurt fanboy who went all "U DONT NOW ANITHIN!!!!!11!" the moment someone said he thought human-level intelligence was too complex to coded by humans.


I'm stopping here.

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Okay, so other than thinking I have no idea what I'm talking about by thinking I meant neural patterns when I said hunting patterns, you still haven't given a reason why a neural network cannot be constructed and cultured under the influence of a team of cognitive researchers and a sufficiently advanced computer. At no point did you specifically give us all the one reason why Cyc is actually a possessed computer instead of actually, by itself, realizing one thing can be similar to another (and while I think they're not going to right route with the project they are doing something). Nowhere did you refute the idea that neural networks work by comparing patters, in which not only is the brain a neural network but they can be artificially created, and not only that, self-reproduce as it gains knowledge.

 

No, your one comeback is to ignorantly call me dumb and assume you're right.


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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I dont think the human imagination will ever be obsolete. We are still discovering how powerful our minds are, and I think this tulpa phenomenon proves that reality is already stranger than we can suppose!

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Reminds me of

 

If they were able to get clearer images on the right, they'd be able to see our tulpa with it.

 

You know, if they invented something that will project the hologram of your tulpa into thin air and let other sees it...


Chloe - That cheerful girl with ponytail.

Aigis - The male cyborg that looks like raiden in MGR.

Vixen - Half dragon female who looks like Mary in DMC3 when in human form.

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