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Can you switch with a character just like with a tulpa?


TB

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And if so, would it result in them becoming a tulpa, or would they stay a character?

 

Would this skill translate to switching with a tulpa, or is switching a thing that is learned separately with each switching target?

 

I also am still not clear on how to tell if something might be some kind of blending, or if it is just a limit to switching potential, or if there is no way to know for sure? What is difference between blending and a mass of unavoidable traits?

 

Creation for creation's sake.

 

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Resident Dojikko

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Definitely read the above thread, including my own response in it

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Characters are not tulpas, or at least mine aren't. I can't "switch with them". But with all my experience, I can create a new tulpa on the spot out of a character/idea of a person I know really well though - and could I switch with them? Putting aside the part where this would destroy all semblance of stability and immersion in our entire tulpamancy experience, maybe. I'm sure as heck not going to try. 

 

I imagine it wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience to switch with a ~tulpa who had zero preexisting development as an individual with their own experiences and all. Just because you know a person doesn't mean your brain is set up to work as if you've experienced all the things you know they have. So you really would get something as cheap as a mask, at best.

 

And also it would be devastating to your system's stability of belief and identity, so I recommend this less than any concept I've ever heard of. And I bet for someone dealing with any kind of mental disorder, this kind of thing could lead to a total breakdown that totally messes up their life, until they rebuild their sense of self/identity again from the ground up with professional help.

 

So, yeah, just about the worst idea in practice I've ever heard. Interesting to talk about why though!

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Sometimes, when Miri was a child (and up to this day), after watching a show/movie, she would automatically act as X character from said show. It wasn't something she did consciously, it was on autopilot, almost like a reflex? And she felt like she was said character, but that's different from switching with a tulpa. When she ''became'' other characters, she felt like she was the character, like someone else had taken over, but it was still her actions, nothing outside her control. Compared to me fronting, it feels similar yet different, because deep down, Miri was still Miri, despite how real the character felt. When I took over, identity changes and actions are outside Miri's controls even if it feels like it's still her.

 

I guess that's the difference. If you were to pretend for long enough, who knows.

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On 5/29/2019 at 1:15 PM, Luminesce said:

Hmm, when I hear experiences like this these days I tend to think more "Tulpamancy can be a lot of things and a lot of ways" than "Oh, another facet of tulpamancy/plurality". Like I've kind of given up on new labels because you're just cutting a slice of cake into smaller slices, if that makes sense. It's not really accomplishing much to keep making smaller slices and is actually getting harder to work with..

I am not sure if I comprehended everything well, but I also got a sense of it being like 2 hammers, and one is used to drive in nails, and another is to break open coconuts, and for some reason calling the second hammer something new just because it was used differently.

 

2 hours ago, Luminesce said:

And also it would be devastating to your system's stability of belief and identity,

Why exactly would it do these things? My biggest fear was it potentially leading to a tulpa unintentionally, and it seems the linked thread may imply that would happen, so I guess that might be a disaster. Though the more I read, the less I understand the difference of tulpas to other mental phenomenon or what sentience is even supposed to be, which doesn't feel good, but seems to be the result of learning things

 

2 hours ago, Miichu said:

Sometimes, when Miri was a child (and up to this day), after watching a show/movie, she would automatically act as X character from said show. It wasn't something she did consciously, it was on autopilot, almost like a reflex? And she felt like she was said character, but that's different from switching with a tulpa. When she ''became'' other characters, she felt like she was the character, like someone else had taken over, but it was still her actions, nothing outside her control.

Feeling like said character is important to me, since I have characters that feel a lot better than I do, and feeling like them would imply I do not feel like myself, and to feel like myself is unproductive

 

What I am considering seems very similar if not exactly the same as deity yoga, which I have gained interest in

 

I am not completely sure yet what I would do with it, but for one, I was hoping it could be a safe way to figure out to the best of my ability the difference between blending and switching, and what the limit is on what things of my mind that can be removed or changed. If I could switch with a character that has a lack of intrusive inhibitions, and experience the disappearance of those inhibition, I'll better know what I should expect with other switches, and not have to feel like I am mangling a sentient tulpa in the process

 

I also feel my first switching experience was different than the rest, and I do not know why that is. I didn't get a large opportunity to test the first one so I can't know for sure, but I felt very different. It is later attempts that felt dangerous and unsatisfying, and it is uncomfortable to perform with an entity I perceive as having to experience pain in order to attempt it. Doing it with a character, there should be nothing to hurt and thus no stakes

 

Also if switching with a character were to work, I would not need Rena to do anything for me anymore. The character can do it, and the knowledge of how to switch could be used entirely for Rena's leisure instead of for her to assist me

Creation for creation's sake.

 

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Resident Dojikko

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I don't really know what to say other than I'm fully against this concept of switching with "characters".

 

Even taken out of the scope of tulpamancy, "channeling enlightened figures" and all that is totally placebo and does not give you any of the mental wiring those people may have had to live and act as they did. It's a farce, and it never goes well, because there's no actual substance to it.

 

Finding a mental excuse to try out new traits is good if you can find a way to do it, but "switching" or thinking that you're someone else won't just work. Also, there's no reason any of your characters would not be affected by your life in the same way as your tulpa and yourself, harkening back to my posts in your previous thread.

 

The only reason switching works in tulpamancy is because the act of creating and interacting with a tulpa is tied into teaching your brain how to be that person, how they think and perceive and all that. Without that, neither switching nor any other concept (channeling, hypnosis, et cetera) will display any significant changes to how your mind actually works. It'll purely be the placebo of thinking you're someone else. Maybe that could be a start to working on actually changing yourself, but it's flimsy, and would be far easier done by just working on yourself, as yourself. Or if your well-developed tulpa wants to try and help, then they can try and help.

 

No matter what, you need to be involved as a willing participant in your personal growth and development.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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I see. I don't know anything about channeling. With deity yoga, as far as I understand, you just replace your self image and internal talk with whatever it is you are intending to become, and eventually you feel like them, which seems kind of precisely how initiating switching seems to be for me and I think others. Just the same level of substance as anything else I thought, though of course it needs to be a target that you are invested in and have a thorough understanding of, whether it is real or fake, or the understanding of them is correct or not. There should be a deep seeded idea of whatever it is inside the brain. I would not be able to do it with a character or archetype I do not know, but I like to think I know my characters. I've attempted it a few times before making this thread actually, partially because I was hoping it would lead to dreaming as them, though I also thought I saw other potential to investigate, like the switching practice or using their healthy conditioning for better behavioral outcomes. I suppose I am reluctant to continue exploring it now though if you think it will end horribly.

 

                                                                                                                                         

 

The only question I still have left for now then is still the one about how to know if one is blended, and how to avoid that mixing. I am not sure if it has been answered, and it is the biggest obstacle between simply working on switching with Rena at the moment. I'm not sure if that question has been acknowledged, or if it was answered and I missed it/didn't understand. It is weighing heavily on my mind, so a clear answer to how to diagnose for myself this issue and a fix for it would be appreciated, and then I'll just focus on working on that for a while.

 

(To look back, the closest thing I think I can see to a response to the question is Miichu saying they believe I am switching. I am not sure if anyone has specifically explained the difference of blending/me unintentionally interfering, versus a 100% switch but the remaining behavior being truly the body despite my personality completely suppressed/out of the way. The reason I am so concerned is that that appears to be a big deal, and surrendering to the notion that the severity of my issues being the body and not me, or alternatively also a part of Rena, (even if she has displayed no evidence of it as a tulpa) when these aren't actually the case, seems like it could be a big mistake and tremendously damaging, when the potential to achieve Bear's success of personality suppression and tulpas taking care of unmanageable situations could be an option. That would be such a massively missed opportunity, and I feel going a long time internalizing the belief that Rena might be as anxious and inhibited as me may actually transform her to be that way when she might not be right now. As such, I need to know if I can be like Bear, or if I am just a system that has this limitation)

 

I am sorry if I am obnoxious in any way. It is just that it is important to hear a clear response to. I would like to achieve what Bear did, and if it isn't possible for me, I would like to be absolutely sure that it isn't possible, before I go and do something that may have permanent changes to a person. (A highly secure person becoming highly insecure, would be very hurtful, even more so if unnecessary) As such, if there was anything to respond to, the contents/questions relating to the last 3 paragraphs would be most important and highly appreciated. Thanks for all of the responses so far

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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8 hours ago, TB said:

[1. ]And if so, would it result in them becoming a tulpa, or would they stay a character?

 

[2. ]Would this skill translate to switching with a tulpa, or is switching a thing that is learned separately with each switching target?

 

[3. ]I also am still not clear on how to tell if something might be some kind of blending, or if it is just a limit to switching potential, or if there is no way to know for sure? What is difference between blending and a mass of unavoidable traits?

 

1. Tulpas are created when you use intent to make them an independent person. Even if they're autonomous, they're still just a character unless you choose to bring them in. Though some can be very insistent and probably should be given the shadow of the doubt, in your case, you probably shouldn't worry because you're really good at doubting and your doubt would effectively protect you from this.  Actors everywhere would be tulpamancers otherwise.

 

2.  Though switching has been described loosely as "getting into character" it's distinctly different than speaking to yourself or play acting. Based on my own feelings, I don't feel like these are related.

 

3. Blending is a soup of traits and thoughts from two or more headmates. Usually unable to tell them apart. A conventional merge is a new entity that doesn't even have to share traits with constituents. A lock merge(tm) is a mix of traits and forms, more like a blend than a conventional merge. A mass of unavoidable traits are probably also mixing in intrusive thoughts or the inability to recognize or to separate out intrusive thoughts.

 

 

 

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Blending is when one system member unintentionally thinks or feels like another system member. It's not a "state", or at least, "being" blended is like "being" dizzy, ie not literally being merged

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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