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Can you switch with a character just like with a tulpa?


TB

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It worked for me anyway, but I'm a Mary Sue trope


In my use of the term, as there is no better term that I could find, it's not necessarily dizzying or a bad thing.

 

Maybe call the bad form 'blending', and the good form, synergizing aimlessly. Idk.

 

We don't mind it, it doesn't happen anymore though other than its similarity in our lock merges.

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I think if you switched with a character, odds are good you would accidentally create a tulpa. I'm aware of one system who left their front empty for several hours because they didn't want to be switched-in and created new headmates accidentally. I don't think having a character switched-in would be much different from that.

 


 

A long time ago when I having a mental breakdown, I decided to entertain a delusion that I was a little girl named Bonnie. I had a different form and mindvoice and I felt I was "inside" my new form.

 

It helped me in the short term. Gray coaxed me out of it about 18 hours later, I never acted as Bonnie infront of other people. It felt like shedding a skin or an outer layer. I then moved on, Bonnie never became a headmate.

 

From this, I think it's possible to change yourself by believing you are now someone else. This lead me to conclude that a headmate doing something like this might be healthier than creating another headmate outright. Essentially, the perk of changing your personality with the benifit of you can undo it if you want too. As long as you don't see this shell as another person, you may be in the clear.

 

I've never seen anyone do this before, so I can't say what the drawbacks and risks are. I think my use of Bonnie was not going to work out long-term, but my situation in the first place was me having a mental breakdown, not trying to change myself to become more resilient. I think there are limits to what changing your personality can achieve, but as long as you understand depression will still be a problem you have to work with, it could be helpful in the long term.

 

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And also it would be devastating to your system's stability of belief and identity, so I recommend this less than any concept I've ever heard of. And I bet for someone dealing with any kind of mental disorder, this kind of thing could lead to a total breakdown that totally messes up their life, until they rebuild their sense of self/identity again from the ground up with professional help.

 

So, yeah, just about the worst idea in practice I've ever heard. Interesting to talk about why though!

 

I agree that tampering with your personality like this shouldn't be taken lightly. For instance, if someone was in my mental state when I became Bonnie, I would highly discourage them from pursuing this. I also agree that having a professional to oversee this process would be a good idea.

 

TB has struggled with treatment resistant depression and anxiety for a long time. I don't think changing their sense of self to believe they are a character will make that problem go away or even make their condition easy to cope with. But if it makes enough of a difference to make their condition easier to treat or makes it easier to cope... It comes across as a potentially therapeutic alternative to me.

 

This article Gray found a long time ago came across as deeply disturbing to us. It's horribly outdated and I don't know how much science is even relevant here, but the concept of commiting egocide for therapy is as disturbing to me as a host committing egocide and being replaced with a tulpa. I think believing you're a character still involves enough 'you' that you don't have to completely destroy your sense of self to get the benifit of having an easier time coping.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's cobud (tulpa), and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

Blog | Not So Temporary Log | Switching Log | Yay! | Bre Translator | Art Thread

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7 hours ago, Miichu said:

TB, why don't you just pretend you're the way you want to be and... that's it?

As far as I can tell that doesn't work at all. It seems to be fake it till you make it method, but that doesn't really stop me from having poor control on how to react to upsetting stimuli, and having paralyzing fear.

 

I feel like if switching is real, something substantial and dramatic has to be taking place in the brain somewhere that should turn off all these normal response pathways to replace with the tulpa's (or in my theory, a long term character I've thought about a ton), so if it is a method to do that, I thought it might be the only way to have a quick behavior change. I have already tried just working on changing myself with other means, but like I said, therapy is useless as it appears it is too difficult to find a therapist who is competent, and doing it 100% by myself is so difficult to the point my efforts for the past several years haven't gotten me to where I need to be because of what I suspect is my toxic environment. (It is unbelievable how much happier and more functional I am when I am home alone away from toxicity for an extended period of time, and how fast my world falls apart again when they come back)

 

Rena (or my character Byakko), if they are who I made them to be, should be basically immuned to being so greatly affected by others (and not necessarily a trait I think is super human or angelic, I think there exists humans who are this healthy?). They wouldn't let another person control them, and while they might be annoyed, they wouldn't be at risk of becoming as angry as me or having no good way to deal with it. I have a personality type that just suffers and flails despite my best efforts to make things better. They should have personality types that just remedies things and it becomes over and history. All I need is for that to happen so I can start working on myself in a living situation it might actually come to something great.

 

Basically I am not a Saiyan, I can't seem to get radically stronger in the middle of getting my behind kicked. I have to train in private first if I have hope to do that, I think.

 

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

But if it makes enough of a difference to make their condition easier to treat or makes it easier to cope... It comes across as a potentially therapeutic alternative to me.

You seem to be less against the idea than Lumi was?

 

I also had another idea, I don't know if it makes anyone more comfortable. It seems some systems in plural community have headmates that don't necessarily exist permanently in the head, and they come and go from other worlds? I created Byakko to be happy and give her a happy life that she is satisfied with and finds fun. The nature of that RP world is also weird, and is already heavily about getting mixed up in different realities. Also, I myself (though very divergent at this point) exist in that world as a friend of hers. So she technically already knows me, and also is use to ending up in weird places and situations. Would it not be possible to have her come to me in my body, and help basically control me to get through some things, and then go back when I don't need her anymore? It wouldn't be too dissimilar of what I did for her, I think? I am not sure, I can also see how it might be really weird, but is a thought. I am not really that much of a meta person but I have a somewhat open mind, but at the very least I think there are people who claim these things, and if so, apparently this is at least happening in their mind if not reality, and it seems to even people here that is all that matters for something to be totally real. And if it works, it works, I guess.

 

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

This article Gray found a long time ago came across as deeply disturbing to us.

Kind of reminds me of something one of my favorite meditation teachers said. If someone is seriously considering suicide, besides getting professional help and such, they should also be aware there are alternatives, such as basically committing spiritual suicide, and that that would be greatly preferable. I guess that is what I am doing now (unrelated to these switching things) as they are talking about awakening I assume, but like I said my situation makes it hard, my mind struggles with the psychological ethics side of things, even if I did achieve awakening right now, I would be very unwell adjusted, and I am afraid of having such an experience with my current mental state

 

Beyond everything else, there is also this I found again sometime ago, I think it was one of the first things I read on tulpamancy, and where a lot of my initial ideas of what it was came from, I think.

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa

Is this article of it all wrong? I assume whoever wrote it would have known what they were talking about, but everything it says seems to be so different from this site. In topic to this thread, switching:

Spoiler
Fully defined switching

This level is achieved when the host is completely dissociated from the physical body. If there is any awareness of the body, it is comparable to the perception of one's physical body when dreaming. The host may lose awareness in this state, resulting in a blackout until something triggers them back into awareness. This may initially be disconcerting for the host as one may not realize a blackout occurred until emerging from one. The memory of the time the tulpa was in control may be blurry or non-existent. The use of meditation techniques may assist this process.

This level can occur nearly instantaneously. Accidental or triggered switches are often much faster in onset, accompanied by a quick disconnection from the physical senses. Internal hallucinations at this level are all-encompassing, detailed and dream-like. The disconnection from physical stimuli greatly increases immersion in wonderland. One may experience lucidity or dream-like plot acceptance and may get distracted by the content of the hallucinations. These hallucinations may be well-defined yet lack the vividness of reality or lucid dreaming. One's sense of time in this state is distorted as one may drift out of lucidity or remain disconnected for several hours. Switching is experienced as comforting and serene. The duration and stability of this state are dependent on practice or natural skill.

Here it specifically points out the host's awareness will turn off or move into an internal hallucination like a dream, which implies heavily that tulpas have a separate awareness from the host, which was my initial assumption in tulpamancy, but it seems like I've had to learn that tulpas do not have their own awareness, and if that is the case, then this should be impossible? I don't know, it really bugs me. Either way, it is made out to be very rare due to being extraordinarily hard, so it is skill gated and thus maybe not very useful to me right now, but it is something I am just curious about.

 

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Though some can be very insistent and probably should be given the shadow of the doubt, in your case, you probably shouldn't worry because you're really good at doubting and your doubt would effectively protect you from this.

Spoiler

tenor.gif?itemid=5266504

 

I can doubt "in reverse" too, lol, like how I have doubt if Eara and Tayomi are merely characters, but I am not sure. That is a huge rabbit hole for another place perhaps, though

 

Creation for creation's sake.

 

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Resident Dojikko

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@ the quote about switching, that's how they described switching in 2012. Unfortunately, .info has over time created a version of tulpamancy with as little BS as possible, making it far easier for critical-minded people to learn and accept. As great as fully immersive wonderlanding sounds, I could never support the concept of blacking out/having memory loss and loss of physical awareness.

 

Believe it or not, I don't consider tulpamancy unhealthy in any way shape or form. But you can definitely add disruptive, dissociated-from-reality, or other logically unexplainable beliefs to it - but it's no longer a "tulpamancy" I support at that point.

 

I do personally experience a strong need to explain everything in my own mind, though, so maybe some people can stand living in a reality with holes and cracks in it, but I will never recommend it

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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If that is the case, then there was no one who actually experienced such things that wrote it, or was consulted in the writing of it, meaning it was totally made up, which is extremely annoying to me, and I believe if true should be removed. Having physically unattainable expectations is one of the most damaging things that can happen, I believe.

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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2 hours ago, TB said:

I also had another idea, I don't know if it makes anyone more comfortable. It seems some systems in plural community have headmates that don't necessarily exist permanently in the head, and they come and go from other worlds? I created Byakko to be happy and give her a happy life that she is satisfied with and finds fun. The nature of that RP world is also weird, and is already heavily about getting mixed up in different realities. Also, I myself (though very divergent at this point) exist in that world as a friend of hers. So she technically already knows me, and also is use to ending up in weird places and situations. Would it not be possible to have her come to me in my body, and help basically control me to get through some things, and then go back when I don't need her anymore? It wouldn't be too dissimilar of what I did for her, I think? I am not sure, I can also see how it might be really weird, but is a thought. I am not really that much of a meta person but I have a somewhat open mind, but at the very least I think there are people who claim these things, and if so, apparently this is at least happening in their mind if not reality, and it seems to even people here that is all that matters for something to be totally real. And if it works, it works, I guess.

 

You know what, maybe characters is what you need. You seem more positive/less anxious when it comes to characters. Don't worry so much about labels and definitions and pursue the ideas that make you happy. That's what I did recently and it helped way more than I expected, you can dm me about it if you're interested, it may be helpful to you as well.

 

That said, the toxic living environment you mentioned, is there anything you can do about that? It seems like the number one problem, and the fact you felt happier when those toxic people weren't around, staying in that environment just seems like it will perpetuate the anxiety and depression.

Host: YukariTelepath

Tulpas: Aya, Ruki

 

Imposition log

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(edited)
1 hour ago, YukariTelepath said:

 

You know what, maybe characters is what you need. You seem more positive/less anxious when it comes to characters. Don't worry so much about labels and definitions and pursue the ideas that make you happy. That's what I did recently and it helped way more than I expected, you can dm me about it if you're interested, it may be helpful to you as well.

 

That said, the toxic living environment you mentioned, is there anything you can do about that? It seems like the number one problem, and the fact you felt happier when those toxic people weren't around, staying in that environment just seems like it will perpetuate the anxiety and depression.

I sent dm!

 

Maybe I will keep looking into what I can figure out might be possible with characters, then. Thanks, I am glad you found something to work out for yourself so well, I hope I can too

 

And yeah, I think everything would be far better if I could get out. I don't know what I can do. I've tried building self up to get job and leave but those have failed, I also am trying to get SSI and working with case manager about situation, but that is proving difficult and not going well, and even if it does work out I am not sure how possible it is to live on such a small amount of money. There doesn't appear to exist the kind of assistance or support for someone like me to get on their feet would need. That is why I hope switching can allow a mind that is not damaged to work on the situation as I already am pursuing all avenues I know.

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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1 hour ago, TB said:

If that is the case, then there was no one who actually experienced such things that wrote it, or was consulted in the writing of it, meaning it was totally made up, which is extremely annoying to me, and I believe if true should be removed. Having physically unattainable expectations is one of the most damaging things that can happen, I believe.

 

Some of the old 2012 tulpamancers claimed to experience "lifelike wonderland visualization and immersion" when switched out. There have been immensely large discussions on this topic, but the TL;DR is that we (most of the .info community) don't generally believe those experiences were what they thought they were, but rather "confabulated" or made up after the fact, assuming they weren't just flat out embellished, which we do usually assume they weren't.

 

Also, while I don't support living in fantasy, screwing with your identity, or believing in meta, all of those are choices for every individual to make. But I think any of this stuff will only be damaging to you and will need work to undo in the future once you're in a better situation.

 

There's a weird line between using placebo and unrealistic inspirations to help encourage or change yourself for the better, and escapism/destructive practices like trying to instantly change who you are somehow. I'm not trying to shut down this entire spectrum of possibilities here, only the more damaging forms.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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9 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Some of the old 2012 tulpamancers claimed to experience "lifelike wonderland visualization and immersion" when switched out. There have been immensely large discussions on this topic, but the TL;DR is that we (most of the .info community) don't generally believe those experiences were what they thought they were, but rather "confabulated" or made up after the fact, assuming they weren't just flat out embellished, which we do usually assume they weren't.

 

I see. It would be interesting to talk to some of these people I think, if I was good at talking and could ask questions and try to get to the bottom of what is happening to my own satisfaction, because I feel such an extreme experience would be difficult to confabulate or mistake. So far it feels like the more I see of people talking about and describing tulpamancy, the more I can kind of see it gravitating to one experience being talked about with different words. I would like to be able to see if there is really something outside with what they say or not

 

13 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Also, while I don't support living in fantasy, screwing with your identity, or believing in meta, all of those are choices for every individual to make. But I think any of this stuff will only be damaging to you and will need work to undo in the future once you're in a better situation.

 

There's a weird line between using placebo and unrealistic inspirations to help encourage or change yourself for the better, and escapism/destructive practices like trying to instantly change who you are somehow. I'm not trying to shut down this entire spectrum of possibilities here, only the more damaging forms.

 

I see. Well, I am trying to have best intentions I can, at least. I just know switching seems to be a phenomenon in this community, and it seems to have very powerful applications for many users of the technique, but I struggle to accomplish it, and the more I learned, the more I struggle to actually see the literal and substantial difference physically/biologically whatever in the brain from switching with a character or tulpa, as a difference between the two things isn't exactly explained to my satisfaction in my experience, and seems to be a how you mentally decide to treat them thing. If I treat Rena as someone who is real and could be hurt by failed switching attempts, and a character as a static fantasy, maybe it would lower whatever psychological block my brain might have that seems to not allow me to deliberately switch with Rena. And my purpose for it isn't to be in some crazy delusion, but to view the world with a perception that stops it from freakishly over reacting in ways that prevent good behaviors and cause bad ones. And it isn't a way to ignore trying to fix myself or give up at life. I have extensively worked on stopping these freakish reactions on my own, and I am still waiting. If switching is a true ability as people describe, it might get something done where I so far haven't been able to. At least that is a line of thinking that I have. I do not really know exactly what I plan to do or what I think is true right now anymore.

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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