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Is full host dissociation possible?


HollowHaw

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Hello there. I have been creating my Tulpa for almost a week now with slow but steady progress, and since around 3 days ago I have been wondering, are the stories and claims I have seen of people fully disconnecting from their senses true, or is this just some type of odd delusion? 

Part of the reason I am doing this is to help prove a metaphysics theory I have been working on, and if this truly is possible and not just some form of lunacy it would be *extremely* helpful in that endeavor. 

I also wonder; If it is real, how long does it take to learn such a skill, typically? Weeks, months, or years? I am not in a rush but it's good to have a timeframe to avoid discouragement.

Thank you in advance for any responses. Personal stories/experiences doubly appreciated.

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Do you just mean a host dissociating from body senses and nothing else, or do you imply that after doing that, the tulpa takes control and does stuff?

 

I can't answer about the latter, but it isn't something I have done. Though if you just mean for the host to be fully awake, yet completely dissociated from the senses, then I believe so. Meditating in jhanas 5-8 should have that experience, and it isn't uncommon for experienced meditators to get there. I haven't done that either though, but am working on it.

 

Getting to such high jhanas in meditation probably takes some years I reckon, at least 1 perhaps, I am not really sure. Probably depends on if you go on retreats or not, and if you have a proclivity for it or not. I am sorry for vague answer, it is territory I have yet to been able to explore

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4 hours ago, HollowHaw said:

how long does it take to learn such a skill, typically? Weeks, months, or years?

 

You've probably already done it. Have you ever zoned out while walking or driving and ended up at the wrong destination? That's full dissociation. You have zero memory of the travel time and you weren't associated with your body at all. The body (BodyOS) doesn't record memories, so you can 'daydream' to a point that you're immersed in your mindspace and not associated to the body. Association to Reality <--> Immersion into headspace. 

 

The memories of events can get to the point that they're indistinguishable. This can be an escape, and it has been used as an escape by many in odd places and situations. I use it for fun and to spend time with my headmates, it's not really an escape per say because my life is also fine.

 

Take a breath, you just associated to your lungs, before that you likely weren't. Can you feel your heart beat? Probably not and even if you could, few can associate to the heart muscle and do anything with it, but with biofeedback it's possible to learn this. Every muscle and sense of the body can be associated and disassociated. The distraction can be zero mindfulness or immersion into something else like mindspace. Meditative states can achieve this and of course when you sleep or dream, you're normally disassociated with material space and body.

 

Yes, I can do this on demand and it's especially useful to 'reset' emotions. Emotions are tied to the body chemically and mentally, when you remove the mental association with the body the emotions quickly unravel.

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3 hours ago, BearBeaBeau said:

Emotions are tied to the body chemically and mentally, when you remove the mental association with the body the emotions quickly unravel.

..Really? Now THAT is an interesting concept I will need to test, as it goes directly against my expectations. Thanks for making me even more excited to try this.

 

I maybe should have perhaps been more clear, I do know the actual concept is possible as demonstrated by sleep an anesthetics etc, my skepticism is if it can be induced intentionally in a waking state, as I figure it would require a ridiculous amount of focus to distract yourself so greatly that you forget your body.

Maybe I am just more doubting my own ability than the possibility itself, though... I have very (sometimes annoyingly) strong senses, I can feel my heartbeat as well as sometimes even the pulsing of my veins almost constantly, as well as a very strong sense for emotional/spiritual energy if you believe in that stuff (that "universal feeling" in the chest, the tingling in the skin, etc) so it seems almost insurmountable to escape all that. I've suffered from insomnia my whole life for the same reasons.(though regular meditation has helped somewhat, as I have at least learned to quiet my regular mindvoice)

 

Anyways very sorry for the tangent, I can go a little overboard sometimes. My ultimate goal is to be able to enter the mindscape and stay there, as I feel that will be incredibly useful for an untold number of applications. I already have an EXTREMELY strong imagination.

Do you have any advice on how I could overcome my obstacles and achieve my goals? 

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I feel like someone has to add in the opposing argument, here.. But as with all meta endeavors, feel free to ignore my skepticism and shape your own reality.

 

Old 2012 tulpamancers sometimes claimed they could switch out into their wonderland (or basically just the mental space visualization takes place in), experience it in much higher quality and immersion than normal visualization, and..... their tulpa they switched with could go on living their life in the meantime with all normal mental faculties.

 

I see this as complete BS (namely, the vividness of the internal experience occurring simultaneously with unimpeded mental faculties), explained as "confabulation" ie making up the memories afterward, or strongly embellishing them to yourself (so you still believe/remember as if they happened that way, when they didn't).

 

In my model of understanding, "consciousness", as in the overarching ability of your brain to manage perception and thoughts and all that, belongs to your brain as a whole, while you and any of your tulpas or other thoughtforms simply exist within/as part of it. A singlet (and really, a lot of tulpamancers) sees consciousness as them and expects it to go where they go at all times. However, when we switch in our system, all that really happens is that I leave the "driver's seat" of the mind/consciousness and one of my tulpas takes my place, leaving me in the same state as my tulpas normally are, and my tulpa in the same state I usually am. The brain continues consciously experiencing in the same scope it's always been, although it'll be strongly influenced by the new fronter to perceive and think differently - the point is that I did not bring "my consciousness" with me, fully experiencing my brain as I always have but suddenly in the wonderland or something. I just experience from the same state as my tulpas normally do, instead of the "driver's seat" of the body/mind. That means I'm only indirectly connected to the senses (if active, I would know if we experienced pain, but I wouldn't be the one reacting with an "OW!", the fronter would - I would just feel bad for them, as an observer). It also means, at least in our system, that I rely on the new fronter to keep me active, or to decide to visualize the wonderland or such - I can't go off and do that on my own while my tulpa does my homework. Unless they were splitting their focus (or rather, the brain's overarching consciousness's focus) between the homework and the wonderland, but still, that accomplishes no superhuman feat I couldn't have just done myself.

 

A lot of tulpas claim to be active in the wonderland 24/7 without their host's awareness, while their host retains full mental faculties and hasn't a thought in their mind about their tulpa. Your belief on this concept is likely what will determine what you experience - I consider the explanation confabulation, that the memories are either made up on the spot, or happen through minor split focus and are simply embellished and believed as such. But if you truly believe tulpas can experience like that, maybe you'll "experience" it too.

 

I'll have my own explanation for what I think you experienced, but the reasoning for the first line of this post is that - to you, only your experience matters, for events taking place solely within the confines of your mind. No matter how anyone explains them, if you believe you experienced something, that is your experience. Maybe you really can experience your inner world as lifelike as reality while your tulpa does calculus homework in your place, or maybe you only convince yourself that experience was so great (or that it happened at all) after the fact. But to a lot of people, all that really matters is what they experienced, or think they experienced. Maybe it'll work for you.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Well you are certainly right that belief has great power, however you are wholely wrong imo on what consciousness is.

I get what you mean by active memory rewrite, I can do that at will, but it is not exactly the same. I have a very high resistance to things like hypnosis so I can tell the difference between real and imagined to be real experiences.

Even if looking at it from a non-meta perspective, it makes perfect sense to be able to do both. Dreams are immersion in the subconscious, and things like lucid dreaming are well documented. There is no reason you could not immerse yourself while a different consciousness is awake.

Alas, I doubt I will ever convince you of my position, or you mine, as expectations = reality with these things most of the time so if you believe you are right you probably are, from your frame of reference. 

Anyhow, thank you very much for your input!!

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1 hour ago, HollowHaw said:

Thanks for making me even more excited to try this.

 

 

1 hour ago, HollowHaw said:

my skepticism is if it can be induced intentionally in a waking state,

 

It's still a waking state and the body can reach a point where it "times out" or "reports condition" like destination arrival or unexpected stimulus. A nagging pain can get washed out like turning down the volume but a new pain or recurring sharp pain will "report as new" if it's unexpected. The rules aren't cut and dry here, but I can dissociate from pains like a headache or dull ache.

 

1 hour ago, HollowHaw said:

My ultimate goal is to be able to enter the mindscape and stay there

 

This is a short term solution. Depending on what you're trying to escape from, if you are, if it's actively occurring it will be passed on to the next one. Certain conditioning will be systemic as well because of the strong associaton of you-ness to the body in the long term. To avoid this, you'd need to have a headmate fronting a pretty long time, enough to imprint the body to them. I've been told by my headmates that this body feels like a truck initially but eventually feels like a warm and musty animal. Since my headmates are not accustomed to an animal framework, it ends up feeling like me, and they feel influence even when I'm not there. Something things may be hard wired and effect everyone.

 

1 hour ago, HollowHaw said:

Do you have any advice on how I could overcome my obstacles and achieve my goals? 

 

See the link above. I have another link but it requires mature headmates who are on board with it.

 

36 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

But as with all meta endeavors

 

There's nothing metaphysical about what I posted, don't paint it that way. I know that it's hard to explain and interpret, you and I have been at this quite a while. I don't do metaphysical anymore. I don't need to.

 

This is pure perspective shift, daydreaming, and meditative states.

 

36 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

experience it in much higher quality and immersion than normal visualization

 

I'm not claiming this, my visualization is always pretty good it's not necessarily better unless we're talking hypnagogic, dreams or other meditative visions. Those are rare for me, not every day.

 

36 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

I see this as complete BS

 

Whatever conceptualization you have of it is likely the issue. I think you've overblown what they were describing i m o. As you know.

 

36 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

my model of understanding

 

Models fit data, if you exclude data, the model isn't as good as it could be.

 

I don't agree with any explanation or model that includes confabulation or parallel processing as it's defined here.

Edited by BearBeaBeau
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10 minutes ago, BearBeaBeau said:

There's nothing metaphysical about what I posted, don't paint it that way. This it pure perspective shift, daydreaming, and meditative states.

 

While it's true this topic isn't innately meta.... I was responding only to the OP who cited interest in this subject in order to help with their "metaphysics theory" they were working on. Also.. I didn't even read any posts other than the OP, so I was certainly not replying to anything you said.

 

10 minutes ago, BearBeaBeau said:

I don't agree with any explanation or model that includes confabulation or parallel processing as it's defined here.

 

Given what I've said about how expectations and beliefs shape your experiences, and how more than I consider possible may be possible, I understand taking the full opposite stance here - that everything should be considered possibly legitimate.

 

I don't like hitting extreme amounts of false positives, though, so I'll keep my stance. I've never been given reason to believe somebody's actually got two brains' worth of power (to continue fully consciously experiencing waking life's complex tasks and simultaneously a trance-like state's incredibly vivid visualization), and if that's ever proven, it's not me they should tell, it's scientists - who will tell the entire world after studying the phenomenon and its results. It sure would be great to just have as many brains' worth of processing power as we wanted. It would also be nice to fly by flapping our arms really hard.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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I dont think I said you claimed anything, rather I claimed something. I imagine it at least to probably be similar to lucid dreaming which as I described is much much more vivid and real, in my limited experience. *I* am saying that it is an esoteric thing, we can both be right or wrong at the same time on that so it is really not worth discussing.

To be clear I am curious about the emotional effects for research reasons, I already have very good emotional control.

I could understand why you would think I am trying to escape something, but I am not. Only an asshole would ask something of their subordinate that which they would not do themself. Rather, I want to do it for both of our benefit. They are only partially vocal at the moment but every time I have brought the idea up I have gotten a strong positive emotional response.

 

Could you please link that other thing you have? There's extremely little reason to withhold information imo.

 

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The pertinent links are:

 

 

In this thread, we figured out how to dissociate and eventually switch. We did this to help me with moods and triggers. It led to autoreset.

 

 

In this thread we explore what's left when the host goes dormant. Or is otherwise in mindspace and completely dissociated, what we call "way back" position.

Edited by BearBeaBeau
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