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Anybody here heard of Khechari mudra? (Very weird topic)


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Earlier this week was having a lot of head pressure due to extended periods of visualizing, so as the pressures became annoying and persistent enough, I thought I should address it.

I've noticed before that my head pressures are related to the way I was flexing my tongue muscles really hard and pressing it against my palate inadvertently.

I have tried many times visualizing without doing this and, it works momentarily but whenever I stop paying attention to my tongue, there it goes again pressing my palate really hard once I start to concentrate into the visualization. I only notice that I'm doing that after I already start to feel the head pressures. By that time it's too late and it's already bothering me.

 

So after two days of attempting to visualize with my tongue relaxed without success I thought that I should probably google that.

So there I go googling the terms "tongue" and "meditation" and I came across this:


https://www.easyayurveda.com/2020/01/31/khechari-mudra/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khecarī_mudrā

 

Very weird, right? That's what I thought too.

Basically, they stick the tongue up into the nasal cavity above the palate and use that to aid the process of meditation.

So of course I went down this rabbit hole and found out that some people seem know how to do this naturally.
This girl is an example of someone that has this ability naturally:

https://youtu.be/ijpBUfOTBT0

 

Also other people report having head pressures identical to what we see in tulpamancy in this practice, here's an example of someone describing their head pressures in the context of Kriya meditation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/kriyayoga/comments/mgpk73/tension_in_the_head_during_dhyana/

 

Described as "tension in the head that is somewhere between no pain and the pain you experience during a headache."

This seems to me like it's the same kind of head pressure we experience in tulpamancy. At least to me.

 

Also I forgot to mention that, they say THIS GIVES YOU IMMORTALITY.

Which, of course, is bullshit otherwise there would be 1000 year old yogis walking around.

Then I thought it would be a good idea to ask around here because, well to be honest, the people that practice this don't know how to explain it without anecdotes and dogmatic stories. Which is fine for spiritual people but I want to find what part is real and what part isn't. Or a deconstruction to find the line where the anecdotes end and the actual benefits of this practice begin. Or if there are any benefits at all.

 

Here is a small list of claims about this technique: (which I have absolute no idea if it's true or not)

 

-Helps you overcome hunger and makes it so that you go extended periods of time without food.

-Gives you access to DMT that is stored in your pineal gland. By licking it directly. (yeah gross, the girl in the video seemed to get very high from doing it, she even says she's high afterwards)

-The practitioner doesn't suffer from decay, disease and death. (this part I think it's flat out not true)

-Gives you immunity to snake poison. (This one I think it's sorta possible, because some snake poison triggers your immune response and the response of the body is what kills the person not the poison itself, so technically by controlling your immune response you would therefore not die from the poison)

 

So my questions are:

 

1-Does anybody else experience their tongue forcing up the palate unintentionally while visualizing or concentrating really hard?
2-If so, do you think this is related to Khechari mudra? Or is it just tension and I'm looking way too much into it?

3-Are those just stories and not meant to be interpreted literally? (If so people are doing a bad job at explaining that)

4-Is there something to this at all? Is it a practice worth looking into?

 

Just thought it would be cool to ask here, since if I asked on their forum they would either not tell me because it's a closed practice, or even if they did tell me I wouldn't understand because the vocabulary they use is very far removed from anything I can contextualize.

 

So what do you guys think? Is it all nonsense or not?

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First of all, I've never heard of this before, but it seems to me kind of disturbing and maybe dangerous. Though I can't say for sure anything about it as you probably know more about it than me technically.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it does give a spiritual experience, but I think one can probably attain similar experiences without having to do that to your tongue.

 

There seems to be multiple spiritual practices around the world that claim those kinds of benefits and experiences, and I think they all touch on something similar by doing different things. I don't think any of them actually give you an undying physical body or have you live 100,000 years, but I think it does likely involve crazy internal experiences that lead to such language being used to talk about them.

 

4 hours ago, neo said:

1-Does anybody else experience their tongue forcing up the palate unintentionally while visualizing or concentrating really hard?

 

I've heard of pushing the tongue on the roof of the mouth in meditation, but in a forward position, not like this mudra. I've experienced unconsciously tensing up of my bottom lip, or my eyebrows, but when I notice it I just relax them and go back to the practice.

 

4 hours ago, neo said:

2-If so, do you think this is related to Khechari mudra? Or is it just tension and I'm looking way too much into it?

 

I imagine it is likely just tension, but what do I know.

 

4 hours ago, neo said:

3-Are those just stories and not meant to be interpreted literally? (If so people are doing a bad job at explaining that)

 

My hunch is that they aren't fabricated from thin air, but I would think it unwise to take literally. Certain meditative states or even psychedelics can make you have experiences of timelessness, and that might make someone feel they are immortal somehow. I also think people who happen to manage to live to very old ages in ancient times and have overseen multiple generations (like making it to 80s when everyone else is dying young) might get mythologized. So you get your archetype of some kind of sage.

 

5 hours ago, neo said:

4-Is there something to this at all? Is it a practice worth looking into?

 

I think certain spiritual practices can be worth looking into, but I wouldn't try this in particular personally.

 

I think my post is pretty opinionated and comes from not having much information, but I can't imagine many others here having heard of it either. I don't feel comfortable speaking about something I know so little about, but I didn't feel comfortable ignoring it either, so I come with a lot of guesses. I'd be interested if someone else knows more about it

 

Creation for creation's sake.

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This is the second most ridiculous thing I've heard this week, and the first was borrowing infinite-energy technology from people who live billions of years in the future.

 

Any effects greater than regular meditation people claim are placebo or exaggerations, obviously. Your tongue can not get anywhere near your pineal gland. 

 

People make up ridiculous stuff like this all the time, that doesn't mean there's something to it. People regularly claim to be able to predict the future, and then they just make up excuses as to why they're wrong about things or just don't talk about it.

 

For basically all ridiculous stuff like this, you can safely assume there's nothing to it or humanity would've thoroughly explored it by now and it would be common knowledge.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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9 hours ago, TB said:

First of all, I've never heard of this before, but it seems to me kind of disturbing and maybe dangerous.

 

I thought that too, some even cut the skin under the tongue to make it so that they won't have to stretch it.
And if you don't have that thing under the tongue this can lead to swallowing your tongue in your sleep and choking to death.

This is advised against too, but a lot of them still do it like it's not a big deal.

 

9 hours ago, TB said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it does give a spiritual experience, but I think one can probably attain similar experiences without having to do that to your tongue.

 

Sure, I'm thinking more that there are a lot of nerve endings in that area and it could possibly provide access to triggering parts of your brain that you wouldn't otherwise have conscious access to.

 

9 hours ago, TB said:

I've heard of pushing the tongue on the roof of the mouth in meditation, but in a forward position, not like this mudra. I've experienced unconsciously tensing up of my bottom lip, or my eyebrows, but when I notice it I just relax them and go back to the practice.

Yeah this is the weird part, it seems like the tongue is involuntarily trying to reach for that spot in between the eyes when I visualize. There is a forward position too, forward is for visualization and upwards is for the pineal gland I guess.
This can be a coincidence, I'll have to know how common this is. But I couldn't yet stop myself from doing it yet so I'll still get head pressures if I go on for too long.

 

9 hours ago, TB said:

My hunch is that they aren't fabricated from thin air, but I would think it unwise to take literally. Certain meditative states or even psychedelics can make you have experiences of timelessness, and that might make someone feel they are immortal somehow. I also think people who happen to manage to live to very old ages in ancient times and have overseen multiple generations (like making it to 80s when everyone else is dying young) might get mythologized. So you get your archetype of some kind of sage.

Maybe you're on to something there, I didn't think it was literal either but then I saw the snake poison thing and I was like wait hold on...
It also mentions a state of breathlessness. Which can be a little bit of hyperbole. Or perhaps you will experience some form of immortality without necessarily meaning your body will become immortal, but then the next paragraph they say the body becomes more vitalizes.

 

So it goes either goes from literal to metaphorical without explaining it, or it's all literal.

 

9 hours ago, TB said:

I think my post is pretty opinionated and comes from not having much information, but I can't imagine many others here having heard of it either. I don't feel comfortable speaking about something I know so little about, but I didn't feel comfortable ignoring it either, so I come with a lot of guesses. I'd be interested if someone else knows more about it

Well considering the claims that are being made I suppose a little bit of skepticism is warranted. Considering that they are teaching you a way to ignore hunger or maybe (possibly) making someone think they're immortal. This can lead to severe consequences for that person.

So that's the reason for my attitude towards religious thinking, dogmatic thinking has killed a lot of people and it continues to do so on a daily basis. We should not take those claims as something that's not serious because people do in fact believe in them, and they live their lives according to those beliefs.
But at the same time there are real benefits for some of those practices which is why I haven't discarded it entirely yet.


8 hours ago, Flandre said:

Your tongue can not get anywhere near your pineal gland. 

They stretch it for months before this is not something you learn and then do it in a day.
here's some guy teaching people how to stretch you tongue for this purpose on youtube:
https://youtu.be/gCI8UJ76FEM

 

8 hours ago, Flandre said:

People make up ridiculous stuff like this all the time, that doesn't mean there's something to it.

Yeah but there is something to meditation and visualization, and I want to experience the parts that are true. This involves digging around a bunch of nonsense to find the stuff that it's real.

 

8 hours ago, Flandre said:

would've thoroughly explored it by now and it would be common knowledge.

Isn't this what we're doing right here? I would agree with this statement if it was something like telepathy or telekinesis that's easily demonstrable, but not for subjective experiences. I mean if you were to discover something new I could say the same thing right?

Years ago if I ever heard of tulpas I'd just discard it as nonsense yet here I am today knowing it's a thing.

So a process of investigation is required whenever something seems worth looking into.

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There is absolutely something to meditation and visualization, lots in fact. There are tons of different benefits, achievable through many different kinds of meditation. Sticking your tongue up your nose isn't one of them.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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6 minutes ago, Flandre said:

Sticking your tongue up your nose isn't one of them.

Considering the promises that are being made I'd say that's a low price to pay.

If I were to offer you a hundred thousand would you do it? What about immortality?

Still kinda weird though. But I don't think this is just a symbolic thing. I also don't think this makes you immortal so I'm trying to find the reasonable middle ground here.

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46 minutes ago, neo said:

But at the same time there are real benefits for some of those practices which is why I haven't discarded it entirely yet.

 

I agree. Though it can be really dangerous at the same time without good discernment. There is certainly wonderful things meditation can offer, but this mudra in particular isn't necessary to get those, and I also would not do these things in hopes of actually getting immunity to snakes or things like that. Most of what spiritual practices provide are internal experience and satisfaction related.

 

If you want to look into such experiences, I would look into learning about access concentration, jhanas, awakening, and just develop a serious meditation practice. It can take a lot of work and time, but it is worth it, and there aren't really shortcuts. I would avoid any sort of spiritual practice that has you damage or warp your body.

 

If you look up Shinzen Young on youtube, you might find interesting the things he has to talk about.

 

Quote

Considering the promises that are being made I'd say that's a low price to pay.

If I were to offer you a hundred thousand would you do it? What about immortality?

Still kinda weird though. But I don't think this is just a symbolic thing. I also don't think this makes you immortal so I'm trying to find the reasonable middle ground here.

 

That's not a good way to think about these things. That is really how some people prey upon others. I can't say if the people doing this practice are malicious, but I personally do not think it is healthy, whether or not it has some benefit. Whatever benefit it might have is not worth doing that for, and I am very confident you can get far greater benefit without harming yourself in anyway with just sitting and focusing on your breath. Get good enough at that and you will be shocked what can actually happen, counterintuitive as it is.

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

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10 minutes ago, TB said:

in particular isn't necessary to get those

I agree that this is most likely not necessary.

 

12 minutes ago, TB said:

If you want to look into such experiences, I would look into learning about access concentration, jhanas, awakening, and just develop a serious meditation practice. It can take a lot of work and time, but it is worth it, and there aren't really shortcuts. I would avoid any sort of spiritual practice that has you damage or warp your body.

I do those already, but I disagree that there aren't any shortcuts. The whole point of teaching the practices is to give the student the instructions that they would otherwise waste time trying to figure out on their own. By definition this is shortening the path of time it takes to reach that goal. Drugs are a shortcut often used too. Other paraphernalia like bells or youtube white noise, those are also shortcuts. I wouldn't discard something because it looks ugly and weird. If there's really something to it I wanna find out.

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Well, I'd consider meditation to be a path to such experiences/attainments, and instruction to prevent time wasting being guidance to stay on the right path. So it is short in comparison to walking in literal circles, but the path itself isn't shorter, as one still has to go down it.

 

Drugs like psychedelics are an easy method to get a hint of these things but aren't the things in and of themselves.

 

Also with meditation, I think there is benefit to being able to do it without auditory aids and such, especially since it is ultimately ideally done anywhere, but it also depends on what you are doing specifically I suppose.

 

21 minutes ago, neo said:

I do those already

 

 And oh, lol, if you actually can reliably perform jhanas, I envy you. I am on the struggle bus lol, though I think I've tasted them before.

 

I am curious what specifically you are searching for in these practices you are looking at

Creation for creation's sake.

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1 minute ago, TB said:

And oh, lol, if you actually can reliably perform jhanas, I envy you. I am on the struggle bus lol, though I think I've tasted them before.

No I just meant I do regular meditation and kasina for imposition. Only in the past two days that I've been getting really strong shifts in perception but also head pressures so I decided to look further into the traditional types and what they teach. 

 

2 minutes ago, TB said:

Well, I'd consider meditation to be a path to such experiences/attainments, and instruction to prevent time wasting being guidance to stay on the right path. So it is short in comparison to walking in literal circles, but the path itself isn't shorter, as one still has to go down it.

Sure, I don't think of it like an exercise like you're accumulating muscle mass, it's more like you're accumulating information about how to get there faster. Its like we were saying about this method. It's probably not necessary, sure. But is it not necessary in the same way I don't need a plane to go to mexico, I could just walk there technically. But if you wanna get there you would prefer to take the plane 100% of the time. Or is it more in the ballpark of symbolism? That's my question here, really.

 

7 minutes ago, TB said:

I am curious what specifically you are searching for in these practices you are looking at

I want to know what is it like to experience those higher states of awareness, those experiences that they say to be heaven like. To see what it's like to feel the things that they say it cannot be described by words.
I don't want to reach the end of my life knowing that I could have experienced a subjective form of heaven and chose to not do it. The same reason we do wonderland and stuff like that.

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      We imagined that I stayed behind in our apartment, though I must’ve been somewhere in headspace the whole time. Maybe a wonderland version of the apartment? We didn’t know enough to ask that question, then.
       
      I couldn’t make up my mind, until the second I got home, opened the door, and realized how afraid Shizuku must’ve felt while I was out thinking about whether I should try to erase her. My heart sank through the floor. I did my best to apologize, though I didn’t know if it would help.
       
      She replied: “I was sad, but I wasn’t scared. I trust you.”
       
      Okay. If she had been afraid, or angry, I would have felt bad enough. But that packed a punch.

       
       
      That day, we promised each other that we’d stay together and try to make this “tulpa” thing work, for better or worse. Not to jinx anything, but six months later, “better” is definitely winning out.
       
      Our long-term goals
       
      (1) Become able to split fronting time 50/50 (or whatever arrangement winds up working for us). I expect it’ll be a long time before we can actually do this, but hopefully not too long—if possible, we’d like to get to this point within a year or two. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a 50/50 split, but I don’t want to feel like Shizuku is prevented from doing things she wants to do by us not being good enough at tulpamancy.
       
      (2) Learn to co-front and keep Shizuku active (as close as possible to?) all the time. We spend a lot of time together, but I still get distracted and forget to check in with her more often than we’d like. Eventually, we’re hoping she can stay around all the time (or whenever she wants to, at least) and get my attention whenever she has something to say.
       
      (3) Stay a two-person system, if possible. I know there are a lot of large systems out there who do perfectly fine, but my instincts say that it would be more than we could handle. Besides, I already feel like I love Shizuku too much for it to be fair to whoever Headmate Number 3 would be. 😂
       
      I do have one soulbond-ish character (using the terminology from Bear’s PR) from my own writing. We’ve talked things over with her in WL, and she’s adamant that she is not interested in becoming a tulpa or participating in the system. (This checks out with what I know about her character, too.) If things change, there’s a slim chance that she might join us, but I doubt it. Either way, I can’t imagine us going any further than that.
       
      (4) Help Shizuku find life goals of her own, and figure out how to rearrange my our life so that we can both do what we want to do. At the moment, we’re just doing regular forcing to try and help her grow as a tulpa. The vague plan for this one is to eventually learn how to switch, accomplish goal number (1), and then let her follow her interest and try a bunch of different things.
       
      Current forcing practice
       
      Working on senses in WL: we’ve been doing our best to spend an hour each day focusing on visualizing Shizuku in wonderland, and also practicing one other sense per day. Wonderland sight and touch have started to show some improvement recently, but overall it feels like we still need a lot of work. Conversation: We also do our best to talk as much as we can each day. We’ve been working through the Tulpa Vocalization Practice worksheet when we can’t think of any other topics. Diary writing: Shizuku writes a diary entry most days. This is something I picked up from the Japanese tulpamancy community, though I think I’ve seen it recommended in English guides too. It’s a lot of fun—somehow, reading through the things she’s written (by proxy or possession, at this point, though our possession game is still pretty weak) does a lot to help me fight off doubt. Imagining Shizuku in stories we’re reading/watching: This has been pretty fun so far, too—right now, we’re rewatching Hunter X Hunter. As we watch, we try to keep up a “mental fanfic” where she’s running around with the main characters. Passive forcing as much as possible: Taking inspiration from the method I used to learn Japanese, I’m doing my best to find ways to involve Shizuku in everything I do. We’ve had some success reading, studying, watching things, and playing games together, but in particular, staying aware of Shizuku during work that I really need to focus on and conversations with other people has been a killer—I haven’t had much success in these situations yet.  
      To anyone who slogged through all of that, thanks for reading! This post already goes on for a million years, so I’ll try to write some (hopefully shorter!) summaries of our progress so far in other updates.
    • By Cosmic Cuttlebone
      Well, I've lurked, and I've lurked, and then I've lurked some more.
      I've read pretty much every guide there is. But now it's time to actually get to work
      Problem is... Well, you see, I'm lazy. Like, really really lazy. I also have a habit of hesitating and second guessing myself. I can also get a little distracted. Sometimes.
      So, I'm starting this little journal here.
      I'll try to add a post here periodically, even if it is relatively short. At least in the beginning. Cultivating this small habit will hopefully force a little discipline.
      Typing it all out will hopefully solidify my thoughts. Yell at me if don't keep this up. :Þ
       
      That being said. Lets start:
       
      Why am I doing this? What do I hope to gain?
      Well a companion for one. I don't have that much trouble making friends, but I have trouble keeping and maintaining connections. I've quite often drifted or grown apart from many people in my life. I'm a bit socially awkward, maybe even a bit socially anxious in some respects. I can certainly hide it, but the more people are around, the more I find myself wishing I was somewhere else, doing something else. It's not that I hate people, I don't.  And I don't plan to stop making connections with physical people. I just don't have the physical or mental energy to deal with too many people for too long.
       
      Still, the opportunity for someone to understand me on a truly deep level that no one else can is very enticing. I can only hope that I'll be, and remain, worthy of this connection.
       
      This will also be a bit of an ego journey for me. A chance to better know and understand myself as well as my future headmate. having someone to share this journey with will make it much more enjoyable.
       
      Also add to that the opportunity to learn first hand an experience that seems rather alien at first glance and that I'm already a creative person, this becomes less of a choice and more of an inevitability.
       
      The start
      Right now I have a name and very loose, general idea of who I hope this tulpa will be.
      Staying within the tradition of opposite genderedness in tulpamancy, "Hazel" will start female. This will help me differentiate her thoughts from mine.
       
      A couple main traits I will be cultivating are:
      Compassion- A personal code I like to live by is if someone needs or asks for help and I am able to do so, then I will help. Lessen the suffering of others. Having her share in that will make it simpler to coexist. This will also encourage many positive traits
      Curiosity- a desire to learn and grow will help develop her and push her to be self sustaining
      Outspokenness-  to encourage vocality.
      this is not exhaustive just some major points
       
      What I won't be forcing:
      Love- From what I understand, most tulpas tend to be already naturally very caring towards their hosts. Also love, I feel, needs to develop naturally. Making someone love me just feels weird. plus that is a pressure I wouldn't want on anyone. Still, I'm sure my subconscious may still add this to the list regardless.
      Lust- same
       
      Form:
      I don't have much of a form for her yet. I've had some ideas but none are really sticking. It is humanoid though. Freckles and dark hair are also coming to mind. That could just be my attraction to them.
       
      I will, of course, accept any deviation from her. Encourage it, even.
       
      The Method
      I'm a very secular being by nature. Still, the mind loves symbols and most of the tulpamantic process is extremely symbolic. As such, I'll be taking some inspiration from the occult, particularly chaos magic.
      so:
      I love symbols, glyphs, and sigils. This is a representation of my intent to create a thoughtform. It is a seed or an egg as the round shape suggests. A beginning. Small and empty at first, but as time goes on, I'll be altering it and adding to it. It will slowly grow as she grows. In time, I may pass it to her. I'm creative by nature so this will just be a natural part of my creative process. The dotted outline suggests openness, inviting life to enter. The geometric shapes invoke a crystalline structure to "trap" the energy or qualities being cultivated. (Again, I'm not a proponent of metaphysics, but the symbology here is very useful).
       
      I will use and meditate on this as an aid while I cultivate her development. I'm not too fond of the term 'forcing' at all, so I'll use the term 'cultivate' as it way better describes the process: to raise, to grow, to prepare, do develop, to improve, to acquire. It brings to mind watering and tending to a garden. This will further put me in the right mindset. (I also have mixed thoughts on the terms tulpa and tulpamancy but I have no desire to get into a fight with the entire lexicon).
       
      Wish me luck.
    • By Renesmee
      Hi! Renesmee here. So, today I created Rosalie (placeholder name). I introduced myself during an active-forcing session and then sent an email to an account I set up so I could email her for forcing. I'm feeling encouraged and optimistic. More reports as events warrant!
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