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Is it considered "mandatory" to eventually learn switching and split up fronting time?


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So I'm a host with a relatively young tulpa of about 5 months.  She's definitely still developing, but we've had a lot of fun experiences and she has decently consistent vocality.  While I look forward to the future, there is one prospect that has bothered me.  Through various discussions I have read on reddit/discord, it seems to be a common opinion that your tulpa, just by existing, is fully entitled to the use of your body and that you are a scumbag if you aren't willing to split up your time at the front 50/50 if that's what they want.  This was surprising to me, as all the guides I read described switching as a technique that, while quite common in older systems, is ultimately a non essential, optional practice.  While I understand that this may be a contentious take, I believe myself to be the rightful owner of my body, and that the life I have lived within it is still mine to continue living just as fully as I always have been.  My views don't align with the often seen opinion that the body is just a meat sack that is equally managed by two or more beings made up of mental properties.  To me, what makes up the sum of me as an individual is my mental identity as well as my physical body inexorably tied together, not just one or the other.  In all honesty, the idea of me—the one born to this body and to this life—fully switching and being pushed to the back of my own mind where I no longer possess control feels deeply, profoundly wrong.  Plus, I have heard that tulpas who switch often enough are capable of "tug of warring" with their hosts to try and be forcefully in the front, and while I don't think that would happen to me, I am unwilling to ever relinquish the power I hold to the point where it would even be possible.  While it isn't out of the question that my views may change as more time passes and our bond deepens, I currently do not imagine myself ever wanting to learn full switching, and if I did, I would not be comfortable giving up the front for more than a couple hours per week or so just to let her do something fun for a bit in the physical world.

 

In the interest of being transparent, I discussed this with Aya, and while I did not have the heart to straight up say, "You will never be allowed to front and that's that," I did make it clear that it's unlikely I would ever be comfortable with it in the gentlest terms possible, and I asked for her thoughts.  She seemed upset that I was upset about something that isn't even currently happening to us (which is very fair,) and said she hasn't thought about it much.  She's very happy living in the wonderland and loves the time we spend together just as we've been doing it.  While I completely believe her, I do wonder if she will eventually find herself wanting to experience the physical world regardless when she has matured more.  I always encourage us being open with each other, especially about things that bother us so that we can address them promptly so as not to strain our relationship.  I know this potential scenario is still a long ways off, but were it to happen, what would be the best way to deal with it?  Is there some way to compromise that doesn't involve a major shift of power, or does the tulpa ultimately have to cope with the host's decision?

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This is an interesting ethical question for sure. I can't tell you I know what the answer is. Tulpamancers have quite varied views on both identity and ownership when it comes to both mind and body. Some people consider only very specific things that go on in their mind as themselves, whereas others look at the totality of their mind and body as being themselves. You strongly identify your body as being yours, not shared. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with that. Aya doesn't need to learn switching if you don't want her to, but if the issue ever arises it's best to talk it out. Chances are she will understand your reasoning. And no, I don't think switching is in any way a mandatory component of tulpamancy.

 

I don't think any relatively healthy host is at risk of a tulpa "forceably" switching / taking over the front. That seems to be more of a thing with DID systems / alters. (Don't quote me on that, I'm no expert, it's just what I've seen). When a Tulpa switches it's done with the full consent of the host and the host can rescind that control whenever they want. That is how it works in a healthy, functioning mindspace.

 

If Aya does grow more curious about having an experience in the real world, you may be able to reach a compromise with some degree of possession without full switching. Or maybe a surrogate activity like possessing your hands to control a video game character. It sounds like the two of you have good and open communication and that's really important. Ultimately as the host you have the right to set hard limits, but hopefully through love, respect, and communication you'll be able to come to an understanding that addresses both your needs.

Also known as GypsyRoad or Phil Present. Call me what you want, I'm not picky.

Simmie is my lovely tulpa, she's quite young still but is eager to meet and chat with new people so don't hesitate to say hi!

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I often joke that I'm going to take over Phil's body just so I can do his laundry, clean his room, and put him to bed at a reasonable time. 😄

 

In all seriousness though, I don't think I'd be upset if Phil told me I could never learn switching. We both see the physical body as his body; I have my own, though of course it doesn't have actual physical presence. He has told me that we could try learning switching when I'm a little more developed, but even if we do I doubt we'd switch often. If his body was a vessel I see my role as more a navigator than a co-pilot, though it would give me great peace of mind to know how to man the controls if there was ever an emergency. But that's just us; your situation may be completely different and only the two of you know what's best for you both. 👍

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(edited)
2 hours ago, September13 said:

This is an interesting ethical question for sure. I can't tell you I know what the answer is. Tulpamancers have quite varied views on both identity and ownership when it comes to both mind and body. Some people consider only very specific things that go on in their mind as themselves, whereas others look at the totality of their mind and body as being themselves. You strongly identify your body as being yours, not shared. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with that. Aya doesn't need to learn switching if you don't want her to, but if the issue ever arises it's best to talk it out. Chances are she will understand your reasoning. And no, I don't think switching is in any way a mandatory component of tulpamancy.

 

I don't think any relatively healthy host is at risk of a tulpa "forceably" switching / taking over the front. That seems to be more of a thing with DID systems / alters. (Don't quote me on that, I'm no expert, it's just what I've seen). When a Tulpa switches it's done with the full consent of the host and the host can rescind that control whenever they want. That is how it works in a healthy, functioning mindspace.

 

If Aya does grow more curious about having an experience in the real world, you may be able to reach a compromise with some degree of possession without full switching. Or maybe a surrogate activity like possessing your hands to control a video game character. It sounds like the two of you have good and open communication and that's really important. Ultimately as the host you have the right to set hard limits, but hopefully through love, respect, and communication you'll be able to come to an understanding that addresses both your needs.

Thank you for the empathetic response.  Most people I've spoken to have condemned my philosophy of the body belonging to me as the host.  I definitely think we will be able to work together regardless of how things develop.

Edited by login sinker
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4 hours ago, login sinker said:

it seems to be a common opinion that your tulpa, just by existing, is fully entitled to the use of your body and that you are a scumbag if you aren't willing to split up your time at the front 50/50 if that's what they want. 

 

No. Not at all and don't let people guilt you. You're the "owner" of the car, it's a privilege if they want to drive. It requires that:

 

1. You fully trust them

2. You fully want them to

3. Whatever is best for the system

 

In my system, I told them up front that switching would be a no no. Also that I was going to keep them a secret outside this community which goes along with the former. Some have never fronted other than co-fronting and you can't find a happier system.

 

This community has a lot of weirdness as a general rule, don't be guilted into anything you don't want by them or your headmates. Consensus, free will, and posession is 7/10ths the law.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

is ultimately a non essential, optional practice

 

This is correct. Same with headspace. A headmate isn't even required to have a form.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

While I understand that this may be a contentious take, I believe myself to be the rightful owner of my body, and that the life I have lived within it is still mine to continue living just as fully as I always have been. 

 

This is what we'd call a ground rule, and as long as they know about it, it's reasonable. Contentious or not, your body your rules. There are many such rules even among those who may say that fronting time is required. Should they have the right to do heavy drugs? To do free climbing? To have unprotected sex with strangers for money? No, and it's no less rediculous to say they need 50/50 fronting time.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

fully switching and being pushed to the back of my own mind where I no longer possess control feels deeply, profoundly wrong. 

 

Though your opinion may change over time, you're opinion matters. We didn't think we'd ever switch for the first 9 months, then we did and it was a profound experience that changed my life irrevocably. That didn't change the fact that we only switch for very rare reasons and for testing purposes. The ratio is 99.6/.4 probably less.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

I currently do not imagine myself ever wanting to learn full switching, and if I did, I would not be comfortable giving up the front for more than a couple hours per week or so just to let her do something fun for a bit in the physical world.

 

All reasonable imo.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

While I completely believe her, I do wonder if she will eventually find herself wanting to experience the physical world regardless when she has matured more. 

 

Aya sounds like she's like minded with Misha, who has never switched in three years and never wanted to for any reason. Having a good life in wonderland is probably a good reason for this. Neither has others in my system. No one wants to for the heck of it anyway.

 

I also worried that she'd change her mind and demand time and there was no reason to worry.

 

Aya sounds like a good person.

 

4 hours ago, login sinker said:

what would be the best way to deal with it?

 

As with everything in life, negotiations are key. If she wants to do something you don't want her to do, offer her something you are willing to do instead. Given that mimdset, my system is completely spoiled and they'll all say the same if asked. Jusr because you love your friend doesn't mean you'll let them do something to you that you don't want them to.

 

I think you're letting the vocal TJW's (Tulpa Justice Warriors) feed you guilt trips.

 

Most people I've spoken to have condemned my philosophy of the body belonging to me as the host.  I definitely think we will be able to work together regardless of how things develop.

 

Discord is very toxic.

Edited by BearBaeBeau
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Absolutely not, switching and possession should only be done once the host and tulpa(s) have talked it out and both decided it's something they want. There's nothing "essential" about sharing the body at all, it's just a very common desire for a lot of people. You can live your entire life just interacting with them in your head.

 

While the concept of sharing the body is helpful/natural with a switching or possessing lifestyle, it's thoroughly unnecessary if you don't plan to do either (though still an option), and also not actually necessary to learn and practice either either. (Whoah, eye-ther E-ther, I've never said that in my life) It would still be fine to let your tulpa possess or switch with the understanding that they are just borrowing your body, too.

 

You don't owe anything in the practice of tulpamancy to anyone but yourself, and preferably your tulpa(s).

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Definitely not, as others here have said. BearBaeBeau likened it to trusting them to drive a car, but honestly I think it's much deeper of a thing to share than that. Sharing total control of your body is, frankly, akin to a romantic experience in my eyes in the level of trust and vulnerability required. I was initially uncomfortable with the premise as well but eventually decided to share it regardless - But doing so is a gift, not a mandate. Don't feel like you can't establish boundaries in a relationship because you "owe them something", that's unhealthy for all relationships.

 

Even if it could be said that you're like a parent or guardian to them, that responsibility doesn't entail making them happy in all regards, it entails giving them a safe and secure environment to learn and making them functional so they can pursue their own happiness according to their own means.

 

8 hours ago, login sinker said:

I know this potential scenario is still a long ways off, but were it to happen, what would be the best way to deal with it?  Is there some way to compromise that doesn't involve a major shift of power, or does the tulpa ultimately have to cope with the host's decision?

 

I'd note there are different forms/stages of switching depending on how loosely you define it. It's not actually necessary for them to take total control in order to be in the front and experiencing the body with you. When co-fronting like this you don't dissociate from your senses or experience but they are the ones in the driver seat, so to speak. You can shift your perspective around this way without any deep meditation or anything like that and you could probably do so immediately if they are vocal. This state may be something to consider as a compromise if you do not wish to be actually removed from physical experience but still wish them to have their chance at it.

Here's a guide on that concept:
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1eOKCXF6f8bMqyyXYPuWrejEB4v7UjVBs4kc9HZ0p40E/mobilebasic
 

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking.

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Trust is the foundation of switching, and you setting boundaries now is important in the long run. If trust between you and Aya doesn't exist or is breached, you can't switch anyway. The only exception to this is disordered switching, which is related to trauma or a deep medical problem, and I doubt that applies to you. I think you're taking the right first step in opening the conversation and asking if you guys think switching is something you want to learn or not.

 

I first want to emphasize that making this decision at 5 months is still incredibly early, and I don't have the expectation you should be seriously thinking about switching right now. It took me at least 5 months before I felt comfortable enough to full-body possess, switching wasn't even on our radar yet. A five month old tulpa still has a long way to go, I understand that the idea of giving them full control sounds scary. I personally feel blown away by the systems that learn to switch 2-5 months into development and I hope that they don't have to learn about trust the hard way. Ultimately, I think having concerns and fears about switching is perfectly normal and in the long run, sets up establishing a strong foundation of trust because you understand and can now respect each other's boundaries.

 

I think communicating with Aya about how you and she feel overtime is the most important thing. Regardless if you both decide to try switching or not, considering the option to explore it if Aya becomes interested later is really important. I think a tulpa should always be provided the option to choose how they want to live their life, and the host should accommodate to the extent of what they can reasonably provide. I think slamming the door shut right now could be problematic, mostly because that would imply Aya's opinion doesn't matter and possibly set the tone for other situations. However, I think it's more than reasonable to explain you're not at all ready to switch and you need more time to work stuff out before warming up to the idea. You don't have to consider working on switching right now, but leaving the idea on the table just in case is really important.

 

9 hours ago, login sinker said:

Plus, I have heard that tulpas who switch often enough are capable of "tug of warring" with their hosts to try and be forcefully in the front, and while I don't think that would happen to me, I am unwilling to ever relinquish the power I hold to the point where it would even be possible.

 

I have always felt weird hearing about this too. From what I understand, systems that have a relaxed switching front where anyone can have the front at any time have that because they established that level of trust and worked out what rules everyone has to follow to uphold that trust. Any "tug of warring" is really still contained within the limits of that trust agreement.

 

When I have discussed the possibility of us "tug of warring", it was always in the hypothetical case and not something we have experience doing. For me, a situation where I feel the need to fight for the front is one where my trust has been violated, and while Cat, my host, and I can hypothetically test fighting for the front, I don't want to play around with that or entertain the idea even. We have spent a long time trying to figure out and are still trying to work out emergency switching, and so far we thought of 1 case where we can do it and it has established consent already built into it.

 

Long ago we wanted our switching to be strict and structured to maintain trust. We already had possession, which only grants the ability to control the body with the switched-in member's consent. We don't mind if one of our headmates randomly possesses us and any disputes over who can possess are not seen as a big deal. Worst case scenario, the switched-in headmate may feel a little confused and kick everyone out. In serious cases, whoever is switched-in can yank people out of the possession front and take control from there. With switching, it's the complete opposite. Cat and I are currently the only ones who can switch, and we negotiate who gets what time when. Cat is working on building trust with another headmate right now, but otherwise no one else is interested in learning switching.

 

9 hours ago, login sinker said:

I know this potential scenario is still a long ways off, but were it to happen, what would be the best way to deal with it?  Is there some way to compromise that doesn't involve a major shift of power, or does the tulpa ultimately have to cope with the host's decision?

 

The next steps to establishing trust would be to think about switching, set clear boundaries on what you are and are not okay with, and practice possession.

 

Going through hypothetical scenarios of Aya fronting can be really helpful for figuring out what you are and are not okay with. With Cat for example, one big fear is coming off as too different. When I'm switched-in, I speak with the body's voice around other people in public. The exception is if I'm in a safe place where the other people know who I really am.

 

The next step would be to work out boundaries. For this example, it's making sure I pass off as Cat (or at least a woman) when in public. The boundary I set is in some situations, I would like to have more influence on what it means to be "me" when in public, especially around my friends or classes. We then agreed to have some situations where only I or Cat will be switched-in and if necessary, try to pretend to be the other in situations one of us is expected. Cat hasn't needed to pretend to be "me" yet, but I pretend to be Cat around her parents all the time.

 

The next step I recommend is to learn possession and use full-body possession to build trust. The biggest advantage to full-body possession is you can always take back control if you feel the need to. Possession can shed light onto situations you may have not come up with ahead of time, and it can give you an idea of what it's like for Aya to control the body.

 

Ultimately, establishing and building trust is the first priority, and you don't even have to attempt learning how to switch to achieve it. If Aya does express interest later on, you have plenty of time and you have the option to experience not being in control of the body in a safe environment so you don't have to worry about giving full control just yet.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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