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Adagio

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I've been meaning to respond to you and I'm afraid I don't really have time tonight to write as long of a response as I would like. But I've always found your system very fascinating! I did take your claim of 500+ system members with a dose of skepticism but didn't dismiss it outright. I have always just been very curious about how such a system would even function, and what it means for someone to qualify as a headmate under such a system. Because I tell you what, it's been almost a year since my son James was born and we're still struggling with the process of going from 2 to 3 in this head. A system size like Ice or Cat/Ranger's systems already seems too large to manage, but in their cases, as with yours, I assume there are things I just don't understand about how systems like that function.

 

If I have the time/energy/presence-of-mind tomorrow I'll try to respond to you in more detail. I just want to say again that I'm very happy you're here again! 😊

Tulpa Wife & Mother! 💚 

💍 11.28.21 👶 4.7.23
👗 Simmie's AI Dress-Up!   📷 Phil and Simmie's Photographic Adventures!

 

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On 3/6/2024 at 2:42 PM, SeekingMyPlanet said:

I've always suspected there's kind of a macho among plural folks pertaining to how large their system is. Sort of like among some folks how much weight they can lift or how many bedrooms their house is or their income. 

 

We're at two right now and neither of us has any desire for anyone else to move in here with us.

 

Oh there definitely is. Part of it comes from there being a lot of younger people in the community, I imagine. It's very easy to get swept up and try to match or be better than everyone else. And a lot of younger people are still exploring their identity, and it is VERY easy to get your identity messed up while in those kinds of spaces. I still struggle with a lot of identity issues from there, and I have days where I sometimes really just want to go back, because it always felt like I fit in with those spaces. But there's a lot of people who need professional help and aren't getting that help in those spaces, and that can impact people around them. I once read something about how DID support groups never worked because everyone would try to one up everyone else, and then they all kind of just got worse instead of getting better.

 

There's also the whole fictive thing. It's become almost like a competition (I've seen people refer to it like a gotta catch em all thing) to have The most fictives from all The most popular current medias. But that's an entire other topic and I don't really want to talk about it because it can get a bit controversial, perhaps? I can't find a way to word what I want to say. Anyways!

 

19 hours ago, TurboSimmie said:

I've been meaning to respond to you and I'm afraid I don't really have time tonight to write as long of a response as I would like. But I've always found your system very fascinating! I did take your claim of 500+ system members with a dose of skepticism but didn't dismiss it outright. I have always just been very curious about how such a system would even function, and what it means for someone to qualify as a headmate under such a system. Because I tell you what, it's been almost a year since my son James was born and we're still struggling with the process of going from 2 to 3 in this head. A system size like Ice or Cat/Ranger's systems already seems too large to manage, but in their cases, as with yours, I assume there are things I just don't understand about how systems like that function.

 

If I have the time/energy/presence-of-mind tomorrow I'll try to respond to you in more detail. I just want to say again that I'm very happy you're here again! 😊

I don't blame you for being skeptical! I'd be skeptical too. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

 

Re: functioning. Most larger systems have people with either very specific tasks or who are holding very specific things, and then they have a group of more "main" people. With me, I generally had 1 host (deals with daily life), 1-2 co-hosts (out often for various reasons), and then maybe 5-10 others who would appear somewhat frequently for usually very specific tasks. This happened to include video games for me! I played a ton of different games back then, and I generally had a specific person who would appear for that game only. Roles and functions start getting pretty specific as headcount goes up, in my experience and from what I've seen.

 

I also have a very role-focused view after two years of getting increasingly fixated on everyone having a role or a reason to be here. I had this mindset of "don't have a role? I don't need you!" before, and it's something that I haven't been able to shake still. It only affect about 90% of my system now, though, which is progress. I don't remember if I've went into detail about roles and functioning in my system before...?

 

Re: too large to manage. Yep! I have a similar headcount to them now (after 2 years of work). There's two reasons that I find my headcount to large to manage:

1) We're all spaced very far apart

2) I can't "remember" all of us at once

 

The first one is a problem that we thought would fix itself as our headcount shrank. It didn't. It's kind of gotten worse, honestly. Now there's larger gaps between system members in my head, making it harder to keep track of all of them. The divide in my system also doesn't help with this, because my parts are all able to fit into a smaller "area" in my head, making it easier to remember them. The people in my head are generally quieter, farther away, and less connected. So it's harder to keep track of them, and can often make me feel like I still have a high headcount.

 

The second one is mostly tied to that above point about being less connected. It's not that I completely forget they exist, it's that I often don't get reminded of them when talking to other system members because there's no connection there anymore. Before it was like talk to system member A → they're connected to B → they're connected to C → now I'm reminded about 3 members and talk to all of them. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain without making it sound like I actually forget my system members. Something tells me that you could probably connect it to parallel processing, but I'm not sure where the connection is specifically.

 

Anyways. Your responses are very much appreciated! Thanks for your time. Looking forward to your more detailed response if you get around to it, Simmie! (Did you change your profile picture? It looks cool!)

- A

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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I'm really not a fan of using Google docs to track system members. Still no better solution other than a notes app. I've now also completely stopped tracking who's fronting, mostly because I feel like if it's important, I can usually tell. And if it's not important then it's not important enough for me to need to know. I can't decide if I'm regressing in my progress, or if this is actually a step forward. So far, it just seems to show that my motivation levels have been dropping.

 

I've noticed a new divide in my system that doesn't pose an immediate problem, but will eventually be an issue. In short, it's basically that there's a group of main fronters vs a group of important people, and our views massively differ. The important people have a high influence on our system structure and front, but the main fronters (myself included there) run our life. I think we managed to figure some stuff out around that last night, though, which makes it no longer a big problem, yet again. We shall see. All that, however, has led to some light pressure on me to merge into another system member. I'm fine with the idea, since I'm technically that person's replacement and that person is 10x more important to us than I am (no hard feelings, it just is that way), but it just doesn't currently work. Another problem for the future. It's possible this will slowly solve itself as that system member becomes more active again. And yes, I am fine with it, and in case someone's out there thinking this is unequal -- this is just how it is with my system. I'm a part, less important, more or less just for my task. The other person is an actual person in our system, and far more important. They're also about three years older than me, which makes them one of our most important system members. They're just a bit inactive. You're free to tell me your opinion on this, though.

 

I also seem to be at a weird point with my host situation. One of my more introspective system members, let's say, has pointed out that the person who I consider to be the host is actually more of a shell, not really existing as a full person or part. I'm sure I could technically force them in a tulpa sense into being more "there", but I'm not even sure how I would do that. The void from having no official host has actually probably been why I've been fronting so much more. Me and J seem to be co-hosting in an actual two hosts sense, not like the term I sometimes use. I'd rather have an actual single host, though, because I have enough amnesia that switches between J and I can sometimes mean that I forget things that J learned. I've dealt with a small amount of amnesia for long enough to know how to get around it, which usually involves relying on one of my more active internal members.

 

Slightly different topic, I've been reading old PRs again. I wish I had the same kind of bond many people have with their tulpas, but with my system members. I've considered doing forcing-like activities with my system members, but I'm not a huge fan of treating my system members in a similar way to a tulpa. Nothing against tulpas, it just kind of feels "wrong" because my system members aren't tulpas. It would be beneficial if I could figure out how to treat my system members as more that just people in my head, and start to willingly include them in my life. I have a few system members that sometimes interject themselves into my life, but other than that, most of them have become fairly passive. Not to say they don't care. They've just been overshadowed for a long time, and now with our far smaller headcount, they're suddenly important but don't know what to do about that. I'm not sure if I talk to my system more than the average host of a tulpa system, though. We do talk quite a lot, but it's mostly between me and one other system member who's very involved in our life.

 

Also, I noticed there's 5.3k views on this PR. I apologize to all those people haha.

- A (taking over this PR)

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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Not sure if anyone else gets this (I think it's more of a disordered system thing), but I have huge drastic shifts in opinions and other things when I switch. Something I don't notice but my system members do (because I'm the outlier with the positive mindset). I personally am also less introspective than the majority of my system as well. It's a bit odd that I'm able to talk so much about my system without actually having much of a deep connection with them.

 

Other things to ramble about:

The remaining people in my system are all very "there" and very separate people. Even though a bunch of us are technically just parts and not as fully "there" as some of the other people in my system, we're all a lot more "there" than any of old system members were. This also means that we don't really gain new people now, because the bar is just so high to be an actual person in our system. I'm guessing this is a me problem and not a tulpa system problem. I'd be curious to know how "there" tulpa system walk-ins seem, to compare it with when I get new system members.

 

I never have much progress to report in this PR. It's mostly just me rambling about little things my system has that is interesting to me at the time. I guess I should work on strengthening bonds between my system and I, or maybe something like switching at will. Right now, we switch and I have no idea why or how it works. As always, you're free to give advice. I think there's a lot I can learn from tulpa systems.

 

- A (taking over this PR pt 2)

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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Back to back posts, sorry.

 

Was thinking about some stuff last night that I wanted to talk about, and then we switched, and to quote him "switched and forgot everything you were thinking about -J". At least he wrote me a note haha. We're trying to start writing more notes to each other to see if it makes the amnesia less noticable or something. I'm not sure.

 

Anyways what I wanted to talk about is how we switch vs probably how y'all switch. For me, I usually have non-possessive switches, where "I" "become" the part I'm switching to. Hence parts of a whole for my fronters. I still have some amnesia between my parts, though, which is generally my biggest indicator of a switch. I very rarely get possessive switches, which I think is closer to what most people aim for with dissociating and switching like that? I really only have that happen if someone who's generally more of an inside person takes the front. Which almost never happens for me. I'm always fine with answering questions about how I switch, if anyone is curious.

 

I was also thinking about innerworld / headspace / wonderland, whatever you call it (I've always called it innerworld). It turns out I do technically have an innerworld. I've spent the past two years assuming I don't have one, so it's a bit weird to think that the void I see actually is an innerworld in a way. And it's changed over the years, which has only become noticable now. Funny how I never noticed the void went from a grey color to black until now. Interestingly enough, it's quite a large space for just the small number of us. While I hold no power over it, I think it's very possible that one of my system members could definitely shrink it into a manageable size

 

On the same topic, internal location. I saw this in someone's PR (it was an old one). My system members all present in specific spots internally, not sure if anyone else experiences this. For me, there's also a sort of depth to it, and there's closer or farther from the front, right, left, center, etc. When someone's presence moves, it's generally a big deal because it usually means a role change. Generally I "see" everyone internally when they're talking and if I'm paying close enough attention. I'm a terrible person to talk about internal presence and visualization and all that because I am the one of the least connected to our innerworld. Makes me very stable person and terrible system member.

- A (taking over the PR part 3)

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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Recently, I've been feeling less "here" and more like a fragment. I'm not sure exactly why, and I can't find a sufficient way to explain the reason that I think it is (it's something good, not bad). It shouldn't be too big of an issue. I'm still considered fairly separate by my standards for my parts.

- A

 

I'm slowly getting more unhinged with how much I dislike being a system. It's gotten to the point where I'm actively calling myself fake in hopes that I'll wake up and just not be a system. Which is ironic considering that this system has kept me alive for years now. At some point, it started becoming the reason for my stress instead of the escape from my stress, which was around the time I started merging fragments and trying to get a lower headcount. Then being a smaller system became an obsession, and I'm sure you can see the spiral by now. Most of why I hate being a system is because of the amount of sacrifices I've had to make for my system. I feel like I waste so much time caring about something that really shouldn't affect my life this much.

 

I feel like I'm slowly losing my identity to being a system. I don't even know who "I" am anymore. Any tips for having a more stable identity? I think it's probably partially a fragment issue, though.

 

I'm not sure if anything I say makes much sense without context. I talk a lot about my system's issues and random things going on without talking about why it's happening. I'm sorry for the negativity today.

 

Let's just say I wrote all of this, but there was someone else here who wrote a bunch that I deleted and rephrased.

- J

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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Back to back posts once again, sorry. And sorry for being so negative.

 

I wish I knew what other people think about me hating being a system. Like tulpamancy is the opposite of that, and here I am going off about how this is the worst. That being said, it is my reality, and I, obviously, am not a tulpa system. Yup, why even am I here, right?

 

Stable host identity update:

I figured it out. I also figured out who wrote half of J's post that he just put his name on. Had an actual discussion (ish) with my system about what we want to do moving forward. My system is incredibly unstable – I lose and gain parts all the time, but my core members tend to stay the same. I've been trying to get us to stabilize for over a year now, but it just doesn't work. I looked back to an old system list from last year, and we had almost the same headcount, but with probably 6 different people who aren't here anymore. Kind of hurts to remember that we just... get people and then lose them and now they don't get their chance at this life. I wish I had more control over that. I think if I cared more about who I have now, I would have a more stable system, but I struggle to find a reason to care. Which I know sounds bad, but I have spent two years not caring, and it just keeps getting worse for me when I try to care. So naturally, I avoid caring about my system so that it doesn't distress me and doesn't impact my life. I really am trying to care and slowly feel better about being a system, but it's hard with all the bad experiences I've had and with not all my parts being on the same page. I want to say that healing has caused my system's instability, and that as I heal, I will stabilize again, but I don't know.

 

I made some progress on some private system issues I was having, which is good. I finally got a chance to talk to one of my system members who is not involved in my life at all, and he seems to be slowly opening up to the idea that he too can be part of my life. I have one person who's extremely active and always there, and I feel like that means that my other members tend to think they're stepping on his toes if they try to be part of my life. I'll make sure they know that I want them to be here too.

 

I really struggle to manage my headcount. I know I haven't mentioned it, and I know I'm now far from one of the bigger systems here, but I still wish I had a single digit headcount. Even with having not that many now, it still feels like I have a lot of people because they take up "space" in my head. If that makes sense. And sometimes it feels like there's not enough "space" for all of them.

 

I want to get to the point where I'm comfortable enough to share things about specific system members by name / letter. Individual intros one day? Perhaps.

 

Thanks for having me here.

- K

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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Positive post today, I promise.

 

Honestly, I think this forum has helped me a lot. It's kind of jarring to see how much more positivity people here have around being a system, compared to me in my deep dark hole of depression and negativity around it. I haven't been around other systems for a while now, and I think that reading about different and more positive views is helping me realize that I don't have to just hate this. I've struggled spiraling a lot, which has made it hard for me to focus on the positive things, and seeing the completely different view everyone else has is enlightening, so to speak. Thanks for being a positive influence on me, everyone. I've spent years stuck in this mindset, and I think I'm slowly starting to change it. Being able to talk about system things here has been huge for me.

 

System things:

- I have determined the best route for being a more stable system. It's simply that I don't know if I'm ready for it yet. Something I've realized recently is that I don't have to get system things done here and now, and it's been freeing to allow myself time to accept change and let my system have more space in the world. If that makes any sense. I know I'll be happier with a more stable system regardless, it's just that I'm tired of making sacrifices and not everyone in my system is ready for it.

- Oddly enough, I've kind of come to terms with my system's size. That's going to be ironic, soon. But it's progress!

- I've been having more doubts about if it's me making up responses or if it's actually my system members responding. While I don't doubt that they exist, I do doubt if sometimes they're talking to me because it's just very faint or feels forced. Really weird that I'm having this problem years after accepting that they exist.

- Another thing today that happened is one of them remembered something when I didn't! It doesn't happen very often so it's a bit surreal. Usually, we either all forget or all remember. Very rarely do I forget and someone else remembers.

- Re: Sharing things about different members. Perhaps soon? I think as we become more stable, I'll be able to share more about my system. I'm not used to talking about them, so it'll take me some time to be ok with sharing information about them online.

 

We've been posting a lot. Not sure if I should try to limit this to two posts a week? I write so much though, haha. Would be two very long posts a week!

- A

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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(edited)

Re: "not enough space" & stable system

Well, it's solved. I essentially was holding onto something that was taking up "space" in my system. It was a huge relief to finally let go of it. I figured that would help stabilize our system, but it did not. Oh well.

 

Re: Sharing things about us.

I was thinking a bunch about this last night, but I don't really know what I'd say. Three of us have posted here (me, J, and K), and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

 

J (he/him) is called our co-host, but he probably is out the most. He's a bit more serious and depressed than I am. He's been here for either almost two years or just over half a year, depending (it's complicated).

 

A (they/them), that's me. I'm considered not quite a co-host because I don't quite front enough. I'm often out a lot with J. I'm generally considered the happy one / the second least depressed. I've been here for at least half a year.

 

K (he/him) probably won't post much here. I was kind of surprised to see he did. We call K our host, even though J really should be considered our host. K is more of a "shell" or "mask" than a person, though. Kind of like who we default to if we don't know who we are.

 

C (he/him) also asked to be mentioned. He is officially the one who's been here the longest, and you'd probably call him a walk-in. He's the calmest and probably nicest of all of us. He doesn't front, and he's spent a lot of time under the radar, but he wants to meet other people. I'll hopefully proxy for him at some point. I don't know where the best place would be for him to talk to others, though.

 

Re: The doubts thing

I've been asking my system members "can you say that again?" if I'm not sure that it's them. I also think that the "space" issue is helping solve this because my head feels less crowded, making it easier to tell when it's them talking.

 

New things

I've recently been getting more "ideas" for new system members? Like mini walk-ins or something? Our extremely high standard for existence helps counteract this, but it's a really weird problem I'm having. I keep getting thoughts of "ideas" of new people. I'm at the point with my system where we're still trying to become a smaller system, so this is the literal opposite. Brain, stop giving me new people, I have too many already. Any advice? This feels more in the tulpamancy ballpark than most of my other questions.

- A

Edited by Adagio

My Progress Report, where I talk a lot.

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