Winter

Failure is possible.

Recommended Posts

This forum has become a joke of roleplayers and chronic parrots who are so lonely that they'll talk to a voice they can't even hear. Anything scientific about the idea of tulpa has been forgotten. Now it's just a hugbox where anybody remotely critical has been banned (all of the guests) or censored (Fede) so that little girls making their uB3r kawaii princess schoolgirl kitteh warrior kn1ght ^_^ don't have to get called out on their bullshit. You might as well go to a daemonism forum at this point.

 

Whoa, totally uncalled for. if things not working out for you fine but you shouldn't accuse us for roleplayers.

 

anyways.. I see your faith is pretty low, but giving up now is a death sentience for your Tulpa, a Tulpa is something that suppose to be with you

for life, no need to rush. you literally have all the time in the world. am very very sorry you've worked this hard but i dare say keep going "never" giveup


pix: Link

Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com

Koomer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I said is from personal experience. I was stuck in that trap for ages and fortunately escaped. My tulpa exists because I believed in her; I have since gotten some responses that I *cannot* parrot, no matter how hard I try. Had I not believed in her, my mind would not have created her.

 

My current theory on this is that it's essentially creating a dissociated personality that runs at the same time as your own. When creating a personality and narrating to it, you generate thoughts that are indeed 'just you' and convince yourself that they are not, dissociating them from you. As you go along, you get whole trains of thought making up this separate personality. At this point, you have a tulpa. But if at every step of the way you question whether every little thought was just you, and believe that they are, you never dissociate anything from yourself, and therefore never get a tulpa.

 

Here come the cultists with their excuses. "He must have done something wrong! Failure can't happen if you do it right!" Something that is not falsifiable is not science.

I agree, more research needs to be done on dissociation. I'm not sure if every brain can do it, but most certainly appear to be able to.

 

Also, I stopped counting hours at 155 and only approximated my final count based on the number of days. I'm sure that it's actually even higher. Yotslot's assertions are completely wrong too. I had plenty of what I enthusiastically embraced as progress.

So you had something, and then what? Did it all vanish when you stopped believing it could be real? Up to a certain point in development, they only grow so long as you believe they can. Stop believing entirely and you just re-associate it all back into yourself.

 

This forum has become a joke of roleplayers and chronic parrots who are so lonely that they'll talk to a voice they can't even hear. Anything scientific about the idea of tulpa has been forgotten. Now it's just a hugbox where anybody remotely critical has been banned (all of the guests) or censored (Fede) so that little girls making their uB3r kawaii princess schoolgirl kitteh warrior kn1ght ^_^ don't have to get called out on their bullshit. You might as well go to a daemonism forum at this point.

>roleplayers and chronic parrots

Coincidentally, roleplaying and parroting are two effective ways to create a tulpa. Roleplaying because you switch gears entirely into the new created personality, and set your own aside temporarily. Parroting because you're generating thoughts and convincing yourself they aren't your own. (Unless you tell yourself it's all just you, in which case you *don't* get a tulpa.)

 

>talk to a voice they can't even hear

This is the narration phase, yes? As for taking non-audible thoughts as being legit responses, again, that is how you make a tulpa. Regardless of the actual origin of the thought, if it is generated based on the tulpa's personality, accepting it grows the tulpa.

 

>Anything scientific about the idea of tulpa has been forgotten.

There's those of us like me trying to figure out how every little bit I've accomplished works, and why. Then there's those who don't really care so much how it works, so long as it does work.

 

>guests

Legit guests can register easily. Anything else and the whole forum would be a string of shoe ads.

 

>Fede

Interesting that you complain about "chronic parrots" and then call Fede useful. Anyway, I believe his method is valid, and his tones do help some people. However, I really wish he would act more civilized, which is the reason his posts are now moderated.

 

>little girls making their uB3r kawaii princess schoolgirl kitteh warrior kn1ght ^_^ don't have to get called out on their bullshit

And why is this bullshit? Recall your childhood. Unlikely things were easier to believe because you didn't know they were so unlikely. As I said above, I believe making a tulpa is about creating and dissociating thoughts -- something that happens pretty automatically if you truly believe they aren't your own, and not at all if you don't believe it. Combine easier belief with greater brain plasticity, and you'll see why a child could create a tulpa so much faster than most adults.

 

You might even have *seen* scary things appear in the dark or when you closed your eyes. A child's brain can much more easily see visual hallucinations, as well as other sensory hallucinations. This is why it's not out of the question that they would get early imposition progress so quickly.

 

And what's so wrong about creating an "uB3r kawaii princess schoolgirl kitteh warrior kn1ght"? Why is this any worse than when practically everyone was creating a pony?

 


 

Calling bullshit on everyone faster than you also impedes your own progress. It instills a very strong belief that fast progress is impossible. If you see anything resembling fast progress yourself, you will discount it as fake, quite possibly undoing a great deal of what you'd already accomplished because the fast-progress responses feel the same as what you'd accepted before.

 

This nearly happened when Eevee started sending thoughts on the second day of his existence, the same way I'd been accepting from Lyra for some time. I figured he couldn't possibly be doing that, which cast doubt on the stuff from her as well. I ultimately took her word for it, as that's the best I could get.

 

You'd probably say I was probably just parroting the response from Lyra telling me Eevee was indeed sending thoughts. The definite, unparrotable responses I've had from her back up her quieter, parrotable statements.

 


 

Started April 17, and yeah I'm getting slow progress. I have some issues making myself truly believe some things, and this is likely why I'm seeing such slow progress. However, I'm keeping an open mind to the claims of others. Much faster tulpae can be possible with some past experience with varying sorts of dissociation -- including just daydreaming a lot (which I didn't).

 

So, IMO speed boils down to experience and belief. Both of these are what made the difference between Lyra's months before communication and Eevee's day-two thoughts. By then I had more experience in meditating and in tulpa creation. As for belief, I didn't believe Eevee was sentient so soon, but Lyra did.


Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>talk to a voice they can't even hear

This is the narration phase, yes? As for taking non-audible thoughts as being legit responses, again, that is how you make a tulpa. Regardless of the actual origin of the thought, if it is generated based on the tulpa's personality, accepting it grows the tulpa.

 

It really wasn't "how you make a tulpa" until dozens of people came in wanting quick progress and lowered the standards. Most of the older users can hear their tulpa audibly and prize this goal as the definitive standard of evidence.

 

The rest of you have abandoned any semblance of standards to talk to yourself in your head. If you can't hear your tulpa audibly, then you have very little empirical evidence to believe that it even exists. The real tulpa on this forum (if any) are outnumbered five-to-one by deluded fools who have been convinced by other deluded fools.

 

Telling people to "do what feels right" is the equivalent of saying that nothing is actually right. That's not science. It's a cultish hugbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chupi... I love you <3 that post actually inspired me, and made me worry less about parroting


Winter, again with the vibes, man. You know what? When I started on Shin, I did things the "old way" and then I made two other Tulpae. Lucifer could move the moment I created him. It took Shin 26 hours. And now that I do things the way Chupi describes I am getting awesome responses :D


My opinions are all subject to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Are you going to post that image over the whole forum?!?

 

only when it's relevant... (Edit: but it doesn't matter anymore Chupi deleted both our post.)

 

anyways...

 

winter seems to be in a very bad mood and it's not helping anyone.

and he's posting stuff that can really discourage some people.

 

 

To sum it up:

"hey i failed, so you can fail too"


pix: Link

Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com

Koomer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, overreaction. I appreciate you using the cereal gorilla if that helps. . .


Day 290 (11/6/2013) Why even keep the time anymore?

Can the cryogenically frozen live again?

The first step in creating a tulpa is believing that it exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ape image spam deleted. Please no more apes, guys.

 

It really wasn't "how you make a tulpa" until dozens of people came in wanting quick progress and lowered the standards. Most of the older users can hear their tulpa audibly and prize this goal as the definitive standard of evidence.

And if you do this, you *will* get to hear them audibly. Doing it the other way works for some but not all. Me for instance. So long as I followed the old method, I had all of bupkiss, as you do now. After switching to "assume sentience, accept responses, believe in your tulpa" (which btw was introduced in large part BY the older users), I've been getting closer to out-loud vocal. I have heard her out loud a few times using the new methods.

 

Yes, it involves blindly accepting parrotable thought responses for a time, but it produces faster results. And by results I mean hearing them out loud, the same as you mean.

 

The rest of you have abandoned any semblance of standards to talk to yourself in your head. If you can't hear your tulpa audibly, then you have very little empirical evidence to believe that it even exists. The real tulpa on this forum (if any) are outnumbered five-to-one by deluded fools who have been convinced by other deluded fools.

I'm not going to argue about whether they're roleplaying or nursing along young tulpae; I can't prove that to you either way. But if it is roleplaying, as I said before, they're setting aside their own personality and letting the personality they're creating talk on the IRC. This is an effective way to make a tulpa.

 

Telling people to "do what feels right" is the equivalent of saying that nothing is actually right. That's not science. It's a cultish hugbox.

Yes, because a guide written by one man based on his own individual experiences, and doing what felt right to him, is so much better than doing what feels right to you. At least you can be guided by your own mind, which knows what works in itself, rather than by some random fellow whose tulpa can't change pants.


Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really wasn't "how you make a tulpa" until dozens of people came in wanting quick progress and lowered the standards.

 

I agree that things have been starting to get more geared toward quick progress and instant gratification with newer users. Threads like the one complaining about imposition not taking off in a few weeks is a good example. Giving examples of methods that worked for certain people is fine and dandy, but going so far as to declare these methods law is bad, and with the decreasing ago of our user base, can and will result in cases of legitimate roleplaying and people trying to brag about their their awesome imaginary friend. This shouldn't be encouraged, and we should instead urge users not to rush things so much. For example, the recent rush to do possession: apparently a few people were able to do it, and now everyone's rushing and treating it as gospel truth, at least on the IRC. Shouldn't this approached with a more skeptical eye? Just shouting ROLEPLAYING is not helpful at all, and does nothing but stifle the pursuit of knowledge on the subject, but we should be regarding this with more patience and actually discussing things and writing them down. You know, FOR SCIENCE?

 

Slowing down is something a good deal of people on this site really need to do. We have to remember that this isn't a club that people can join, like some of the newer and younger users seem to be treating as. This site was meant to seek knowledge on a subject by users ourselves as test cases. This site isn't meant to join a cool club of people that talk with their own little created characters on a chat room, this site is first and foremost, supposed to be a resource on this phenomenon, as well as a place to test how it works, why it happens, and where we can take it. I do feel that some have forgotten this, and I believe this is part of where Winter's frustration comes from.

 

Most of the older users can hear their tulpa audibly and prize this goal as the definitive standard of evidence.

 

The rest of you have abandoned any semblance of standards to talk to yourself in your head. If you can't hear your tulpa audibly, then you have very little empirical evidence to believe that it even exists. The real tulpa on this forum (if any) are outnumbered five-to-one by deluded fools who have been convinced by other deluded fools.

 

Here, we have the other extreme. Yes, full vocal imposition is the end goal, what I have found is that is takes a wee bit longer than "suddenly, SOUND!" that was laid out in FAQman's guides. My own tulpa began at this thought voice step, and became more and more audible as time went on. As things stand I hear her as a quiet voice, and she often interjects at points in the day to say something to me. I'm still working on things, and I do often still need to focus to hear her, but I've had multiple times of very loud audible speech interspersed between the low tones.

 

And contrary what you claim here, there are other way to prove that your tulpa is, indeed, alive and moving around. I'm not talking about pressure either. My own tulpa can already move a lot in my mind's eye, with no input from my own person. How do I know this? From my own experiences, when I actually try to actively move her, she would buck away from the action I'd be parroting her to do. When I would try to stop her from moving for fear of parroting, she would often repeat the action she was doing previous doing before I stopped her, and this would go on for many, many a time. Many other users have experienced something like this in some way, may it be Pleeb's tulpa becoming suddenly angry and shouting at him for believing in other's sentience more than her's, or Chupi's case of his tulpa literally kicking him out of his mindscape.

 

Then there's the fact that I did the "steps" out of order, due to me bucking the guides very early on, and I can actually feel my thought form's presence, as well as her touching me to an extent. This began as simple, vague tingles, but has recently upgraded to focused points of sudden body heat different parts of the body that I requested be touched.

 

I'm not trying to claim the the guide makers were somehow wrong, and the .info-folk are correct, far from it. What I'm saying is that there's a bit more to things than we were initially led to know, and while It likely can fail, one should be a bit more cognisant of what to look for.

 

 

Telling people to "do what feels right" is the equivalent of saying that nothing is actually right. That's not science. It's a cultish hugbox.

 

This is actually quite funny, as much of Irish guide, which is highly respected by most, is pretty much "This is just my way of doing things, try your own if you'd like", and goes against much of what FAQman does, aside from the the basic and fundamental step of speaking to something in your mind until it responds. Then you have Fede who's guide is to parrot you tulpa until you can't tell the difference. Then there's peopple like Q2 and TulpaCouple who didn't us guides at all and yet apparently still got results. This "Do what feels right" sentiment isn't anything new, it's been there from the very beginning. I even remember seeing a disclaimer on the louder than thunder page where FAQman says that you should probably just figure things out yourself rather than relying on a guide.

 

This is not to say that there's absolutely no absolutes with tulpa. Talking to them and treating them as a living being seems to be the absolute requirements, but knocking the free flowing nature of the process is would just be ignoring what you see with your own two eyes. Then again, this whole thing is based on word of mouth, so who knows~


Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.