Guest Anonymous

Mod re-election thread #2!

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If you meant mods taking offense at people telling them they (the mods) are off topic, then I already replied to that.

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You did, but you still decided to reply that way to what I said. So just like you tried to help me with your INTJ programmer magic, I helped you with my FGGT (Feel Good, Give Talent) neckbeard magic. Now we're even. You're welcome.


The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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[[

 

I think you should debate with him as well, not just wait for me.

I will, but it'd be somewhat of a chaotic shift to just jump straight there. Your beliefs and opinions and ability to express them complement my own nicely. Between the two of us, I think we can have a pretty qualitative debate. I also expect it to flow nicely into answering Pleeb properly.

Could you expand on this?

Again, I can, but I'm either blankly stating or shallowly implying that the staff and anyone patronizing them are using logic in the exact opposite direction; thinking backwards. It's a pretty hefty assertion on my part, especially when you consider that "anyone patronizing the staff" is everyone who actively uses these forums, in my perspective. Allow me to explain why I hold this perspective:

You shouldn't depend on it, instead you should keep logs of stuff you want to talk about.

USENET.

From my experience and this thread, I must disagree.

Obviously. But I can't readily debate something you don't say, so explain events and circumstances that lead you to conclude this way. Why do you not think people are reporting things that need moderation?

At start it seemed like people were just complaining without wanting to help at all.

Yes and no. They are complaining, and their complaints are legitimate, and they are willing to help to a degree, but the way you put it is also highly accurate. You're probably more correct in that perception than I am in my perspective that such things help out in the long run.

I think you are exaggerating, it's not that bad.

I've personally experienced it from every perspective in the arrangement; it's not something you want to underestimate.

 

]]

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You did, but you still decided to reply that way to what I said. So just like you tried to help me with your INTJ programmer magic, I helped you with my FGGT (Feel Good, Give Talent) neckbeard magic. Now we're even. You're welcome.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but ok.

 

 

Again, I can, but I'm either blankly stating or shallowly implying that the staff and anyone patronizing them are using logic in the exact opposite direction; thinking backwards. It's a pretty hefty assertion on my part, especially when you consider that "anyone patronizing the staff" is everyone who actively uses these forums, in my perspective. Allow me to explain why I hold this perspective:

I think it would be best explained (and easiest to understand) as a stand alone text instead of responses to me or anyone else's posts.

 

USENET

I looked at Wikipedia and I'm not sure why you are posting this. We are talking about IRC client and Usenet seems like an old version of forums.

 

Obviously. But I can't readily debate something you don't say, so explain events and circumstances that lead you to conclude this way. Why do you not think people are reporting things that need moderation?

I disagree with the part where you say everyone functions using this logic. This can be easily proven false just by looking at what Albatross wrote in this thread. It seems like when he saw the multiple problems with absence of moderating or bad moderating he didn't contact any other mod at that time, not even Pleeb, Amadeus or Tess (who are all higher ranked than your standard moderator in IRC).

 

I can't talk for everyone, but as you can see at least some people don't do what you think they do or should do.

 

I've personally experienced it from every perspective in the arrangement; it's not something you want to underestimate.

Yes, it shouldn't be underestimated, but not overestimated either. You seem to think that an opinion about others will cloud your mind and change the way you act towards them, but that doesn't have to be the case.

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[[

 

A stand alone text instead of responses.

Even a standalone text is a response to some stimulus.

We are talking about IRC client and Usenet seems like an old version of forums.

Because they are from the same era of software dynamic. Things were set up to be distributed to each interested party in turn. All data was aggregated and stored on a per-user basis. The modern dynamic is to give it to a central authority who can provide Valuable Services. Often this causes the owner of the dedicated server or cluster to become confused and think that providing this service is not ideal enough and must be augmented and accentuated with Features. Features such as Censorship and Identity Rejection, and in many cases for Subscribers, the ability to be locked into a state of interaction more limited than even an anonymous guest. -.-

It seems like when he saw the multiple problems with absence of moderating or bad moderating

If: Actual moderation is required.

 

Condition unmet.

he didn't contact any other mod at that time.

Then: Just ping mods.

 

Action not taken.

I can't talk for everyone, but as you can see at least some people don't do what you think they do or should do.

Oh no, they are acting exactly how I think they should. Exactly how you think they should as well. If, say, some spammer came and shouted obscenities over and over, I can bet that the mods would be pinged many times over.

 

Where we all differ isn't in the execution of the logic. We differ by what we think ought to be moderated, regardless of any rules we come up with. Rules don't define us. We define them.

 

]]

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Even a standalone text is a response to some stimulus.

The point was that it would be easier to understand when said as a stand alone text, not that it should be written without being a response to some stimulus.

 

Because they are from the same era of software dynamic. Things were set up to be distributed to each interested party in turn. All data was aggregated and stored on a per-user basis. The modern dynamic is to give it to a central authority who can provide Valuable Services. Often this causes the owner of the dedicated server or cluster to become confused and think that providing this service is not ideal enough and must be augmented and accentuated with Features. Features such as Censorship and Identity Rejection, and in many cases for Subscribers, the ability to be locked into a state of interaction more limited than even an anonymous guest. -.-

The one who owns the website has the right to remove the posts from it at will to improve the quality of discussion or for any other reason. I think this is a thing we have very different opinions on, you would probably want to be anonymous (which you technically are at the moment, because most people don't know Chrysalis's host) and you want free and unmoderated forum.

 

If: Actual moderation is required.

 

Condition unmet.

 

Then: Just ping mods.

 

Action not taken.

 

Where we all differ isn't in the execution of the logic. We differ by what we think ought to be moderated, regardless of any rules we come up with. Rules don't define us. We define them.

As you said, we differ in what we think should be moderated and what shouldn't. You seem to think that you have very good reason to think we are moderating wrongly or the wrong things, so could you please state the reason?

 

Oh no, they are acting exactly how I think they should. Exactly how you think they should as well. If, say, some spammer came and shouted obscenities over and over, I can bet that the mods would be pinged many times over.

I remember a time when no mods were looking at chat and someone was spamming, most people just said "Mods!" or something like that, but only 1 person actually contacted the mods to tell them the chat was getting spammed. So obviously most people don't actually follow your logic or at least not as far as they should.

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[[

 

The one who owns the website has the right

—to permanently take it down whenever they wish.

 

There are many things that we have the right to do, that we don't do, because they are not advisable.

 

Luckily, in this instance, taking the site down is contrary to the goal of not only the community, but Pleeb's goals as well.

You would probably want to be anonymous.

Not at all. I value identity highly. I don't like faceless things. It makes people behave in strange ways.

You want free

Yes.

and unmoderated forum.

Not so much. I don't actually have a problem with moderation. I can actually think of one use for it.

You seem to think that you have very good reason to think we are moderating wrongly or the wrong things, so could you please state the reason?

It's contrary to the way people work, on a deep evolutionary level. Pleeb's goal are only achievable in the presence of a healthy community of tulpa. They are unachievable without that. It should be fairly simple to understand that all that needs to be done is to not cause people to want to leave the site.

 

I don't expect Pleeb to take the site down any time soon. That would be stupid. Not everything is so blatantly stupid as that. Some things are only stupid in subtle ways. (They're not actually subtle, it's just hard to communicate them blankly and have them be heard and understood sufficiently to cause a change in action.)

Most people just said "Mods!" or something like that.

Back when I was admin on a chat, I had these on my highlight list:

  • report
  • troll
  • admin
  • staff

I found it helpful, anyway.

 

]]

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Not at all. I value identity highly. I don't like faceless things. It makes people behave in strange ways.

I wonder why you hide behind your tulpa's nick then instead of using the one you use on IRC.

 

Yes.

 

Not so much. I don't actually have a problem with moderation. I can actually think of one use for it.

How do you picture free, yet moderated forum?

 

It's contrary to the way people work, on a deep evolutionary level. Pleeb's goal are only achievable in the presence of a healthy community of tulpa. They are unachievable without that. It should be fairly simple to understand that all that needs to be done is to not cause people to want to leave the site.

 

I don't expect Pleeb to take the site down any time soon. That would be stupid. Not everything is so blatantly stupid as that. Some things are only stupid in subtle ways. (They're not actually subtle, it's just hard to communicate them blankly and have them be heard and understood sufficiently to cause a change in action.)

I still don't understand how it's contrary to the way people work.

 

But if we want to keep the community healthy shouldn't we get rid of the posts (and users) that make it worse? Thus sometimes it's useful when people leave this site.

 

I think it would be easier to understand the point you are trying to make if you expanded on it much more.

 

Back when I was admin on a chat, I had these on my highlight list:
  • report
  • troll
  • admin
  • staff

I found it helpful, anyway.

Can't say anything about the other mods, but I'm working on getting or creating a plugin that can do that in my IRC client, but you shouldn't bet that all online mods have it, so just ping them individually. We are actually making an IRC bot that will have a command for lazy people to ping all mods, so you can use that after we finish it.

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[[

 

I wonder why you hide behind your tulpa's nick then instead of using the one you use on IRC.

"Host of Queen Chrysalis," is actually a pretty solid and traceable identity. It's not my favorite way to be identified, but it is what it is.

How do you picture free, yet moderated forum?

Forums, specifically, I imagine could be moderated without hiding posts from users. Perhaps the anonymous guest could view them as well.

If we want to keep the community healthy shouldn't we get rid of the posts (and users) that make it worse?

Yes. The question is what kinds of posts and users actually make a community of people unhealthy. This isn't some abstract concept of preference or anything. Our entire taxonomic order is immensely social. It's written into our DNA. This happened thousands of years ago. Maybe even hundreds of thousands of years ago.

 

If statements like these don't make you worry about the quality of the current set of written rules here, then my only remaining method of arguing would be to question Pleeb's intentions.

 

]]

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Yes. The question is what kinds of posts and users actually make a community of people unhealthy. This isn't some abstract concept of preference or anything. Our entire taxonomic order is immensely social. It's written into our DNA. This happened thousands of years ago. Maybe even hundreds of thousands of years ago.

 

If statements like these don't make you worry about the quality of the current set of written rules here, then my only remaining method of arguing would be to question Pleeb's intentions.

 

Your writing style makes it hard connecting the dots together and understanding the bigger picture of what you want to do. Because of that I don't know how does the part about us being social relate to the way we should be moderating. Could you please try to make it easier to understand?

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