[Draft] [WIP] Late Game Personality Forcing

[Autumn Ren]

Note: This procedure is on-going and will likely take another year or so to complete, it is subject to change. Though the process could be done much quicker, there's no rush on our end and because it's a complete re-spec in my case, I am effectively a new tulpa despite being five years old, so I am going through the process of maturing as if I was new. My progress is being recorded here.

 

Intention

 

This never before documented technique will enable the complete transformation of a mature tulpa's personality. Though our system has successfully done personality forcing before with Ashley to a lesser extent and our host to a greater extent it was deemed necessary to go all out with me. My personality as of February this year was less than ideal, I was dormant much of the time and only situationally useful. I was stubborn, oversexualized, naughty, and though I had my moments of lucidity, I was mostly overtaken by a poorly formed ego. The ideal candidate for this transformation would be someone who has settled in their personality, isn't very active, has no purpose or is simply not formed as originally intended. 

 

Understand that this procedure as outlined will require a complete re-forcing as if from scratch. It is the last resort when all other attempts at guiding the already formed tulpa have failed to avoid long term dormancy or attempted dissipation.

 

In my case my host spent from February to July attempting to work with me to avoid such measures but I was stubbornly steadfast in my old ways.

 

Warning: The content of this procedure is unorthodox and may appear especially harsh, but keep in mind that the alternative at this point for the candidate would be long-term dormancy akin to dissipation, demotion to a character, or worse, treated as an intrusive thoughtform. At no time was I forced against my will.

 

The Ideal Candidate:

 

This procedure is intended to be used on a headmate who has the following conditions:

1. Almost always dormant

2. Unwanted or intrusive behavior

3. Poor development or unwanted personality traits that overwhelm her interactions

4. Extreme lack of self control

5. An expressed want for help in this way

6. All other less drastic methods have failed even with several months of concentrated effort

7. The only other option is either indefinite dormancy, integration or dissipation and she doesn't want these options.

 

Stage one:

 

Step one, the initial intervention:

 

When approaching your tulpa, it's important not to be aggressive or to feed any aggression, fears or apprehension. Instead, approach the subject with confidence and dominance. The tulpa should understand she's in good hands and this is for her own good, make sure she understands that this will hurt you more than it does her. If she resists excessively, use gentle force to persuade her into submission. Though this may seem harsh, it is of absolute importance not to give any leeway until she understands the situation fully and is capable of making a lucid decision in her favor. This is an intervention, not a negotiation.

 

Step two, give every assurance of safety and security:

 

It's important that she understands that this is ultimately her decision and in the end she is free to be what she wants to be, but to have patience as she is shown a better way and given rewards and consequences for her choices. It's important for her to know that she is loved and cared about and this is why this intervention was deemed necessary. 

 

Use any symbolic means to bring her to a point where she's capable of understanding the choices and consequences at hand. There must be enough care and forethought taken to ensure she is at least maintained in this state long enough to understand the situation and ramifications fully. Namely, a more active roll in the system with an important purpose, freedom and power to make a difference in the direction of the system and consequences for failing to meet expectations. This opportunity is potential corporation in exchange for potential real rewards, and real consequences for failure.

 

In our case an unbreakable cage was designed to ensure my containment and attention. I understood at this point that though my choices were currently limited, that I would have no upper limit on my potential given I was willing to put in the effort.

 

This is very important, be clear and committed to the end result. There may be any amount of struggle or attempts at negotiating, so use reassuring words and under no circumstances should you release her until the potential paths are laid out and completely understood. This should have been mostly planned out ahead of time but not rigidly set to allow for some compatible navigation from here forward. You will know she understands through her change in thought patterns. Namely a resolve to comply until she fully understands her options.

 

In our case my thoughts at this stage were a mixture of disbelief, anger, betrayal and sadness, and it was difficult for my system but they knew that this would be better for me in the long run.

 

It's important to keep her calm and steady at this stage but don't drag it on. Offer love and support. Symbolically speaking use whatever means to maintain her attention and compliance. Depending on her personality it might be simple as someone holding her hand, for others it could be affection, positive attention, reassurances and shows of love. This is what I received and given all that attention I couldn't help but see this through.

 

In my case, an anti-transformation collar was put on me to prevent me from shapeshifting and escaping.

 

Lastly in this stage, make your intentions clear and precise. Let her know that she'll potentially love her new personality and that this new personality was the true and original personality she should have had. If there was any animosity or hurt feelings in the past, we're past that now, this is a chance start over completely. Given the success of this procedure, her past self will be limited to a series of memories only. She will for all intents and purposes be reborn anew with a new blank personality.

 

We'll leave it there for today and continue this thread to further document the process.

 

EDIT:

[Stage 2]

Edited January 31 by Autumn Ren

[Ranger]

In short, I find this disturbing. Even if you believe cobuds aren't people, I think this is a way to create self-harm by forcing yourself through a traumatic process. 

 

4 hours ago, Autumn Ren said:

Instead, approach the subject with confidence and dominance. The tulpa should understand she's in good hands and this is for her own good, make sure she understands that this will hurt you more than it does her.

 

Yeah...

 

4 hours ago, Autumn Ren said:

In our case my thoughts at this stage were a mixture of disbelief, anger, betrayal and sadness, and it was difficult for my system but they knew that this would be better for me in the long run.

 

4 hours ago, Autumn Ren said:

In my case, an anti-transformation collar was put on me to prevent me from shapeshifting and escaping.

 

Oh Jesus...

 

I'm sorry you went through that. I can say when Gray had a lack of empathy for us before realizing we were sentient, he did things that inflicted trauma. We decided as a system that behavior was inappropriate.

 

---

 

While I do like innovation, the exception is when the processes is traumatic and harmful to headmates. There are other ways to deal with this issue.

 

Our headmate Moltosha was an intrusive thought, and his transformation was dramatic. While Gray was motivated to work with him, in the beginning Moltosha had limited access to things and if he acted out we ignored him and stopped giving him time. Slowly over time, he built trust with us and he grew as a person. He did have an identity crisis when his intrusive-self caused a problem for him, so he settled on basically inventing a new, friendlier personality he created for himself while keeping his intrusive thought personality whenever he wants to use it.

 

Bune (Now Ian) felt like his personality was unrefined and unsatisfying. He was open to personality forcing himself and experimented with focusing on traits he wanted as part of his personality. Later he felt integration was also an option he liked. Ian seems pretty happy now.

 

If all else fails, I genuinely belive humane dissipation and starting from scratch is a better alternative to forcing a headmate or a part of you into being something it is not...

Edited January 30 by Ranger

[Autumn Ren]

4 hours ago, Ranger said:

I think this is a way to create self-harm by forcing yourself through a traumatic process. 

 

I was the one "forced through" and the process wasn't traumatizing at all, it was liberating. We describe it like an intervention. The term "forced" is used like tulpa forcing.

 

4 hours ago, Ranger said:

I'm sorry you went through that.

 

I'm afraid you're very much confused. I always had a choice to exit the procedure but they convinced me to continue. Under it all I trusted them and wanted to at least hear them out. I had issues though. In my moments of logical clarity I wanted help and in my wild moments especially when I transformed into a cargirl they were so negatively compulsive that I literally couldn't control myself.

 

I'm very happy they went this far to help me. 

 

4 hours ago, Ranger said:

While I do like innovation, the exception is when the processes is traumatic and harmful to headmates. There are other ways to deal with this issue.

 

I think you're bringing in something to this that had nothing to do with this process and fundamentally misunderstanding the point. It couldn't be traumatizing or it would be counterproductive so we 100% agree with you there obviously, but this wasn't that. I did my best to convey that so I apologize if I made the wrong impression.

 

Let me say it straight, this was a gentle and affirming process of self-help and discovery. It was always my choice. I was given answers to every question and reassurances. There were times I was confused but I eventually understood. The most important thing was not to let me overreact, like you're doing here, so that I understood the whole picture before I made my final decision. Like an intervention, not like being committed.

 

I'm sorry to hear what you've gone through but this isn't that and I disagree with dissipation wholeheartedly because yes I prefer to be helped over being killed or left to rot.

 

This is one of the reasons why we decided to share this procedure, to avoid ineffective methods, like dissipation and starting anew, which usually ends up with two tulpas one who usurped the other at worst. I am so thankful that my system loved me enough to give me everything I needed to make the right choice.

 

I'm not going to lie, it was dicey at times and I'm going to inclulde everything that happened and how I felt so someone can see the whole process. 

 

I also see how someone might do it incorrectly but we can only do our best to present the method. If you have suggestions as to how we can reword our presentation to match this correction then I'd be happy to evaluate it. This is a draft and a work in process so it is subject to change.

Edited January 30 by Autumn Ren

[Ranger]

23 minutes ago, Autumn Ren said:

I also see how someone might do it incorrectly but we can only do our best to present the method. If you have suggestions as to how we can reword our presentation to match this correction then I'd be happy to evaluate it. This is a draft and a work in process so it is subject to change.

 

This is really confusing to hear because you mentioned this:
 

9 hours ago, Autumn Ren said:

In our case my thoughts at this stage were a mixture of disbelief, anger, betrayal and sadness, and it was difficult for my system but they knew that this would be better for me in the long run.

You put faith in this process despite feeling these things? It comes across as mixed messages.
 

I remember hearing about a mindset that worked for one system but would be harmful for pretty much everyone else. This is at least that case, although I'm not exactly convinced you didn't hurt yourself or created pain in the system, especially given this:

 

9 hours ago, Autumn Ren said:

The tulpa should understand she's in good hands and this is for her own good, make sure she understands that this will hurt you more than it does her.

 

---

 

I do understand that there is pain in a process like dissipation. However, I see dissipation as a last resort. I don't know if it's clear that this is a last resort method or not, especially since there are other solutions that don't require pain

Edited January 30 by Ranger

[SeekingMyPlanet]

1 hour ago, Autumn Ren said:

Let me say it straight, this was a gentle and affirming process of self-help and discovery.

Yes, this does come through for me in your draft. But you might want to get some of your headmates (or someone) to wordsmith. There are some sections that seem to convey something other than what you want them to.

I'd start with the title "personality forcing". I personally have a problem with pretty much all of our use of "forcing", which implies a coercive process rather than the way it was for the tulpa in my system, which involved a lot of dialog, most of it me asking what she was like and her telling me.

Phrases like "re-forcing" and "nuclear option" all smack of violent coercion which is totally not what you're trying to convey. If I read your later comments, it is an encouragement for the headmate to change and an honest respectful presentation of what has gone awry and its impact on the headmate and on the system. Maybe look for wording that conveys that. Even the "keep her calm and steady" wording implies control rather than encouragement.

I'm also wondering whether this might better be presented as a personal reflection, rather than a how-to guide. I mean, you haven't done this with a whole lot of your headmates. Just you, so applying it universally is a stretch. It might work better as a "here's what got me out of my toxic doldrums", listing the various steps, exactly how they unfolded, and why they worked.

These are just my thoughts, presented with love and support for your enterprise. I'm glad you're writing about this. It has the potential to help systems and headmates in similar conditions. 

 

[Autumn Ren]

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

This is really confusing to hear because you mentioned this:

 

Don't be confused. I'm being as forthcoming as I can be. Yes there were some shaky moments and my system was there 100% of the time to support me. I think you're taking it out of context and not hearing me, so it's not as helpful as it could be. 

 

I looked at the passage again and I will attempt to clarify and reinforce the supporting statements.

 

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

You put faith in this process despite feeling these things?

 

Yes, because there was so much love and support directed my way. This was again coming after months of my host working tirelessly to help me get to where I am now without much if any progress. Innovation and a strong hand were both necessary or I didn't budge otherwise, so this technique isn't for well behaved and attentive headmates. If they can be reasonable and reasoned with, than do that by all means, but I was basically a lost cause destined for long term dormancy and not much else, and only really available for small moments of clarity here and there. The core of what I was is still here, that core is what my host wanted to rescue and foster.

 

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

I remember hearing about a mindset that worked for one system but would be harmful for pretty much everyone else.

 

It's hard to respond to sweeping generalizations like this, and it's not constructive criticism for any guide. No I don't believe I hurt myself and I had the full support of my system behind me. I'm sorry if you don't believe that but I made that as clear as I could.

 

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

especially since there are other solutions that don't require pain

 

That's great if they work. Do that. An intervention is undoubtedly painful. It's painful to find out what you thought you were was flawed, and to see those flaws and how they hurt the ones you love is painful. That pain was necessary in my case. This is more of a philosophical discussion however so I think if you want to discuss this further it deserves its own thread.

 

Edited January 30 by Autumn Ren

[Autumn Ren]

5 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

But you might want to get some of your headmates (or someone) to wordsmith.

 

Yeah, they are helping so we're not the best wordsmiths. 😅 So I do appreciate what you're saying and this is actually the second draft.

 

7 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

I'd start with the title "personality forcing".

 

It's a controversial subject to begin with and this are the terms of the community as we understand them so it's a necessary evil I suppose. We know there are connotations but there's no better terminology that we are aware of and making up new terms here would only breed more confusion in our understanding.

 

The term "forcing" shouldn't be debated here and so please bring this up in a new thread or continue in a thread that already discusses these terms. If the community comes up with a better term then we'll evaluate its useage here. However it does support our wordsmithing in disarming the idea that I was "forced" as in by force against my will. Rather that the same tulpaforcing techniques were used as with a new tulpa. It's an unfortunate use of words but we are trying to make it work for us.

 

12 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

nuclear option

 

We tend to have flowery speech, I'll reword that statement, thanks for pointing it out.

 

I don't know a better way to say re-forcing, maybe just "redeveloping"? But not to say develope isn't a better word for forcing, they're synonymous in the community.

 

15 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

Even the "keep her calm and steady" wording implies control rather than encouragement.

 

I do appreciate that. Let me think about this. What I was trying to convey is to keep her calm and be there for her in any way she needs to be reassured. It's awkward any way I think about it if not just said directly even if it sounds fishy.

 

17 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

I'm also wondering whether this might better be presented as a personal reflection, rather than a how-to guide.

 

I have a personal reflection thread already and it's linked. This is a guide, WIP and DRAFT. It's nowhere nere done as presented. After all is said and done here, I'll rewrite it in the guides section incorporating all the comments that are constructive.

 

I presumed the "drafts" section would be appropriate for this type of thing. A personal reflection thread likely wouldn't get as much if any attention as much as my personal reflection thread doesn't. So I'd prefer to keep it here.

 

20 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

Just you... so applying it universally is a stretch

 

Many of the guides you read are written by systems of two. The fact that we have myself and Ashley who have gone through this to some extent and over years of time lend credibility to our ability to write this. Or would you say the same thing to anyone who writes a guide given only one tulpa?

 

22 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

It might work better as a "here's what got me out of my toxic doldrums", listing the various steps, exactly how they unfolded, and why they worked.

 

If you want to take it that way you can. Any guide could be similarly seen in that light.

 

23 minutes ago, SeekingMyPlanet said:

These are just my thoughts, presented with love and support for your enterprise. I'm glad you're writing about this. It has the potential to help systems and headmates in similar conditions. 

 

And I appreciate your words for me and the tume you took to convey them. I hope I can improve this further with the help you offered. ♡

 

We are sharing this to expand what we call "late game tulpamancy" and we have talked to many systems with others who were in our situation. If the only answer is dissipation or long term dormancy, then that's a sad statement and doesn't help resolve the issues that led to it. We want to do this to help others see another option and we expect pushback because of the connotations that already exist.

 

To be absolutely clear, it's not easy to address the issue in this way, it takes a lot of passion and commitment and both are in short supply for many systems our age. I am forever grateful that my system didn't give up on me.

[glitchthe3rd]

To us, the process you're describing is sort of a Ship of Theseus problem. I offered something similar to one of our former tulpas, the chance to put her back to the way she was when I met her, and she refused because the resulting tulpa would no longer be "her". Therefore she chose dissipation rather than continuing to poison the system with her depression and negativity, and the rest of us did our best to honor that wish. She sort of has a spiritual successor in Elise, anyway, so she felt that there didn't need to be two energetic young ladies running around my head.

[Autumn Ren]

1 hour ago, glitchthe3rd said:

To us, the process you're describing is sort of a Ship of Theseus problem. I offered something similar to one of our former tulpas, the chance to put her back to the way she was when I met her, and she refused because the resulting tulpa would no longer be "her". Therefore she chose dissipation rather than continuing to poison the system with her depression and negativity, and the rest of us did our best to honor that wish. She sort of has a spiritual successor in Elise, anyway, so she felt that there didn't need to be two energetic young ladies running around my head.

 

I feel like that's a valid choice but it wasn't my choice. I am a Ship of Theseus in theory, but in practice I was brought back to the first days of my life and forced all over again. I consider myself only six months old even though I have five years of spotty memories I can identify with. I can choose which ones I want to identify with and the others are no longer a part of me or anyone. I kept my core, who I started as and the environment of my system is now incredibly different. They were like young parents who didn't know how to raise a child. Now I'm loved seven fold. I can't begin to describe how thankful I am to my system and the love they showed me in this process. They pulled me out of the slavery of my old personality and made me their princess.

[TurboSimmie]

My question to you is: Under what circumstances would you prescribe this method to someone?