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The origin of sentience/consciousness


motorheadlk

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I've been asking myself some questions lately, and still haven't found a conclusive answer to them.

 

Let me say that here in this discussion we won't be doubting the sentience or consciousness of any tulpa or human, we will assume they both are sentient/conscious, even if you can't confirm that as a fact. Also, try to see sentience and consciousness as synonyms for the fluency of the discussion.

 

The first question was probably:

"What's the main difference between the sentience of the host and the tulpa's sentience?"

Of course one could answer "The host creates the tulpa's sentience" or "The host came first", but is that really all there is to it, is there no other difference from the sentience of the host and the sentience of the tulpa?

 

Then a answer came in the form of another question:

What originates the sentience of the host, is it the relationship with his enviroment, the world? Was it always there right when you were born or did it just pop up one day?

I know this question is probably one of the oldest there are, but even so, we that know about tulpas might be able to come up with an answer simply because we acknowledge the phenomenom of the rise of a sentience, and we are the ones that create the sentience of a tulpa.

 

So, in which ways are the rise of the tulpa sentience and the host's sentience similar? I mean, both can control the body, both can create tulpae, both can do what the other does (or at least the tulpas can do what we do if we taught them to, the reciprocal may not be always true f. e. the tulpa might be able to erase memories, and there is nothing that points that the host himself might be able to do it). The knowledge of how your sentience rose could make the process of creating a tulpa/sentience easier, and the knowledge of how the tulpa's sentience was created might answer how our sentience originated.

 

And why when your consciousness rose, was it only one, not two or several consciousness that rose with time? Why most people only have one consciousness during a lifetime? If the multiple personality disorder and alikes are examples of multiple consciousness, why is it so rare?

 

What do you guys think about all this questions? Do you think you could answer some of them?

I'm brazilian and my english is not really good, I'll do every mistake you imagine, but I'll try to avoid them.

 

Tulpa: Kuruminha

Age: Began on the middle of october.

Form: My avatar.

Sentience: Confirmed.

Mindvoice: Not yet.

Working on: Visualization and Mindspeaking.

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You shouldn't be using sentience and consciousness interchangeably.

Sentience is the ability to have subjective experiences while consciousness is commonly understood as sentience plus a host of other things; what those thing are depends on who is defining the term.

Given what you claim consciousness/sentience can do you are primarily talking about consciousness as it is commonly understood.

Unless you separate those two terms and say what you mean when you say "consciousness" most of this thread will be spent on people disagreeing because, while each is using the same words they don't mean the same thing to them.

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Guest Albatross_

is there no other difference from the sentience of the host and the sentience of the tulpa?

 

There might be. There might not be. Tulpae may not even be sentient at all. Anyone who claims they can answer that question is presenting speculation as truth. Disregard them.

 

You shouldn't be using sentience and consciousness interchangeably.

Sentience is the ability to have subjective experiences while consciousness is commonly understood as sentience plus a host of other things; what those thing are depends on who is defining the term.

Given what you claim consciousness/sentience can do you are primarily talking about consciousness as it is commonly understood.

Unless you separate those two terms and say what you mean when you say "consciousness" most of this thread will be spent on people disagreeing because, while each is using the same words they don't mean the same thing to them.

 

Saved for future use. This needed to be said so much, and I couldn't have put it better myself.

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You shouldn't be using sentience and consciousness interchangeably.

Sentience is the ability to have subjective experiences while consciousness is commonly understood as sentience plus a host of other things; what those thing are depends on who is defining the term.

Given what you claim consciousness/sentience can do you are primarily talking about consciousness as it is commonly understood.

Unless you separate those two terms and say what you mean when you say "consciousness" most of this thread will be spent on people disagreeing because, while each is using the same words they don't mean the same thing to them.

 

Well, consciousness, as translated to portuguese (consciência) is used in the same way everyone here uses sentience. Simply put: The consciousness is a quality of the mind, qualified by things like subjectivety, self-awareness, sentience, sapience, and the hability to perceive your relationship with your enviroment. So, use only consciousness if you must, but know that if I use the word sentience, I'm saying the same as I mean with consciousness.


 

There might be. There might not be. Tulpae may not even be sentient at all. Anyone who claims they can answer that question is presenting speculation as truth. Disregard them.

 

So you're just saying you don't want to discuss it,or that you don't think it's possible, that's fine, but there is no point of telling it in a thread meant to discuss this, is it?

I'm brazilian and my english is not really good, I'll do every mistake you imagine, but I'll try to avoid them.

 

Tulpa: Kuruminha

Age: Began on the middle of october.

Form: My avatar.

Sentience: Confirmed.

Mindvoice: Not yet.

Working on: Visualization and Mindspeaking.

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Guest Albatross_

So you're just saying you don't want to discuss it,or that you don't think it's possible, that's fine, but there is no point of telling it in a thread meant to discuss this, is it?

 

Since English is not your first language, I'll excuse the misinterpretation of my statement. However, in the future, you might consider asking for clarification before resorting to belligerence.

 

I did not say that I do not want to discuss it. Neither did I say that I do not think it is possible. I said that it is currently unknown whether or not tulpae are truly sentient in the American sense of the word, and that anyone who claims to know is simply presenting their opinion as fact. I furthermore note that, with regard to your OP, such responses are useless and misleading and you would do well to ignore them.

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Well, consciousness, as translated to portuguese (consciência) is used in the same way everyone here uses sentience. Simply put: The consciousness is a quality of the mind, qualified by things like subjectivety, self-awareness, sentience, sapience, and the hability to perceive your relationship with your enviroment. So, use only consciousness if you must, but know that if I use the word sentience, I'm saying the same as I mean with consciousness.

 

The questions you are asking will undoubtedly lead to dissecting and defining of the term "consciousness"; now seeing as sentience is a rather important part of consciousness I don't see how treating them as synonyms will help your discussion.

Also even though everyone here uses the word "sentience" you should not assume that it means the same thing each time it is used and to everyone; I haven't spent that much time in this community but in it the term "sentience" is poorly defined and appears to cover a lot of ground.

Normally this isn't problem because despite this people are still more-or-less on the same page when they say "sentience", but when more precise answers are required and opposing opinions are presented this will lead to confusion and problems.

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Since English is not your first language, I'll excuse the misinterpretation of my statement. However, in the future, you might consider asking for clarification before resorting to belligerence.

 

I did not say that I do not want to discuss it. Neither did I say that I do not think it is possible. I said that it is currently unknown whether or not tulpae are truly sentient in the American sense of the word, and that anyone who claims to know is simply presenting their opinion as fact. I furthermore note that, with regard to your OP, such responses are useless and misleading and you would do well to ignore them.

 

We're here to find a plausible answer through discussion, not simply accept one as a fact. We're here to debate opinions, and see if we can come to a conclusion, not a fact. This discussion is not meant to ultimately answer those questions, only to answer them the more accurately we can with the knowledge that we have.


 

The questions you are asking will undoubtedly lead to dissecting and defining of the term "consciousness"; now seeing as sentience is a rather important part of consciousness I don't see how treating them as synonyms will help your discussion.

Also even though everyone here uses the word "sentience" you should not assume that it means the same thing each time it is used and to everyone; I haven't spent that much time in this community but in it the term "sentience" is poorly defined and appears to cover a lot of ground.

Normally this isn't problem because despite this people are still more-or-less on the same page when they say "sentience", but when more precise answers are required and opposing opinions are presented this will lead to confusion and problems.

 

Treating as synonyms is just to make things clearer because people already misuse them as synonyms, using sentience for consciousness and vice versa. So I step ahead of it and stated that we're going to use them as synonyms, for people not to bitch about them being different things, they are, but most people don't know the differences. It's easier to tell the people that know it that we we'll use it as synonyms than to tell everyone who doesn't knows it that they're not synonyms.

 

There is no need to define term by term, when terms contradict they will soon be corrected in the discussion, but that's if it's needed. And we're not in the discussion here, we're discussing how the discussion should be. How about we discuss it and them we see if we're really not able to express our opinions?

 

Anyone that wants to try to answer the questions on the OP, please feel free to do so.

I'm brazilian and my english is not really good, I'll do every mistake you imagine, but I'll try to avoid them.

 

Tulpa: Kuruminha

Age: Began on the middle of october.

Form: My avatar.

Sentience: Confirmed.

Mindvoice: Not yet.

Working on: Visualization and Mindspeaking.

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You may want to check out this article if you haven't already: http://tulpa.info/articles/difference-between-tulpae-and-us/

 

As stated in the article, an interesting parallel is talking. Your parents (and others) talk to you all the time, and by common agreement teach you language. Although the effects of growing up without sentient contact is not (AFAIK) studied, it may well be that you would lose much of your common intelligence as well. Of course, the key step in creating a tulpa is narration. You talk to your tulpa and eventually it learns to talk. Sound familiar?

Differences in ability may well arise in different circumstances for 'growing up', and there may not be an inherent difference between tulpas and 'normal' people. If you changed places for a very long time with a tulpa then you may find yourself able to modify your (or, by then, their) memories and so on.

 

Having multiple consciousnesses is not common because, well, it's just not what the brain naturally does. Multiple personalities that have been clinically studies tend to arise from trauma, and as such have little to do with tulpas in terms of origin. They may be viewed slightly differently, or as inherently the same.

 

I have my own question. If you are a schizophrenic and are hearing a voice, is the voice sentient?

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