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Can I take both pills? Philosophical speedballing.


dreampunk

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True separate sentience requires separate existence as a mind, but this does not involve delving into the metaphysical. In fact, Occam's Razor isn't as applicable as you may think here, because only one assumption must be made: that the mind and the brain are not as tied together as we think. I'm aware that I'm turning up in your progress report and postulating my own theory, but I'll explain nonetheless.

 

It would be standard practice to assume that base structures of the mind are attributable to base structures of the brain. This means that something like human consciousness is enabled by dedicated structuring, that cannot be uprooted or reconstructed. This would mean that tulpas cannot achieve the same level of sentience as a human, because they would never have the same neural apparatus for such a thing. However, this is not necessarily the case - bear in mind that neuroscience around consciousness is particularly sketchy. Rather, you could make the assumption that regions of the brain are more like specialised computation units, and that a function such as consciousness could potentially be duplicated. Upon this assumption we could postulate that a tulpa could be sentient at the same level as a human, the neural apparatus for such a thing being replicable.

 

The point is that tulpas being sentient is not completely ludicrous, and you should at least keep an open mind towards the matter.

 

I don't feel like repeating same things over again. So I'll just reply shortly. I base my workings on my previous experiences and logical conclusions, not on anecdotal evidences. I currently haven't experienced anything related to separate identities or sentience (how could it even ever be separate?) I'll just have to assume it isn't plausible nor required.

 

As I pointed out earlier, if something worthwhile related to those topics emerge, I will not outright discard them, instead I'll examine them thoroughly. Open mind is not blind belief and it is of utmost importance to exercise critical thinking in these extremely subjective phenomena.

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But what you're doing is basing your beliefs on personal experience - or, lack of it. Saying that something is implausible just because you have not experienced it is illogical. Going by this rationale, you shouldn't be doing this. You have yet to personally experience tulpas, and all the evidence is anecdotal, so doesn't it follow that tulpas are implausible?

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This post is about how I go about the next project which I will begin working on tomorrow. It is not intended as a guide. Nor is it a schedule as it doesn't contain dates or even estimates of the duration of whole process. It is divided into twelve phases. Every step builds upon the previous and the lengths within every phase are presented as a minimum necessary to realistically be able to proceed to the next. I felt I needed some sort of battle plan to accomplish something worthwhile. Lengths of sessions are intentionally short to combat procrastination.

 

The Regimen

 

Phase one (establishing the routine)

Two daily sessions lasting at least five minutes per session. One session is purely autosuggestion and the other is visualization. This phase is most about just acquiring the habit of doing them daily.

 

Phase two (going deeper)

Lengthening the visualization session to last at least 15 minutes. (Slow and steady is good).

 

Phase three (merging the sessions)

Adding autosuggestion before visualization exercise and adding visualization after the autosuggestion session. Essentially making the both sessions identical. So two sessions per day, both begin by autosuggestion followed by 15 minutes (minimum) of visualization. (Every sessions done after this has autosuggestion before until noted otherwise).

 

Phase four (See no evil, hear no evil, feel no evil)

Lengthen the visualization to at least 20 minutes per session. Add two sessions of at least five minutes in length; one being about imagining the tactile stimulus and other about audio stimulus.

 

Phase five (sequencing senses)

Two sessions per day lasting at least 30 minutes per session. Combining the previously added two short sessions to the longer session in a sequence, keeping them separate.

 

Phase six (steps and stairs)

Still doing the previous sessions twice per day. Adding two sessions (lasting at least five minutes per session) where the sensory stimuli are merged instead of being sequenced. Olfactory and gustatory stimuli are added to both long and short sessions.

 

Phase seven (three sessions now)

Shorter session must last at least 10 minutes. Longer sessions remain the same, but after doing everything in sequence, doing them also simultaneously for at least five minutes. This is done twice per day.

 

Phase eight (three is one)

Sessions consists of only imagining all of the sensory stimuli simultaneously and autosuggestion. No more sequenced working. Sessions last at least an hour.

 

*** After this I do not even suggest minimum times (even if they are for myself), for it is quite impossible to estimate anything realistically. ***

 

Phase nine (realism is overrated)

Every session is done with eyes open and ends with imposition exercise. I wont proceed further until I experience (even for a brief moment) a realistic imposition.

 

Phase ten (am I enlightened now?)

All sessions are slowly becoming imposition exercises.

 

Phase eleven (Look mommy, I am a wizard!)

Every session is imposition exercise.

 

Phase twelve (A GOD AM I)

Imposition requires little to no effort to maintain and is constant.

 

So this is my battle plan. The most critical step is the ninth. If I do not succeed in the imposition (even for a brief moment) within a year, I consider this project not worthwhile to continue working on.

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But what you're doing is basing your beliefs on personal experience - or, lack of it. Saying that something is implausible just because you have not experienced it is illogical. Going by this rationale, you shouldn't be doing this. You have yet to personally experience tulpas, and all the evidence is anecdotal, so doesn't it follow that tulpas are implausible?

 

I have to refer you to my earlier posts in this thread about the experiences I have had that leads me to conclude why I think this is possible.

I just find it implausible based on my current experiences and beliefs. And as there is really no other way to change this than direct experience, so I will not make unnecessary assumptions about it. Also what explanatory power does the sentience assumption really add? And how would it even be possible for the sentience to become divided?

Let's assume a separation of identity occurs and a new personality appears. The separate personality/identity exhibits all the characteristics of sentient being.

Let's also assume there's a second entity specifically (a servitor, hologram or whatever) made to mimic these same characteristics.

As they both exist only within your mind, you have very little tools to distinguish between the two. How could this even be done and why is it even relevant?


Are you even planning on sentience at all? This doesn't look like something that would end with a sentient tulpa.

 

Now I know why I feel like I'm constantly repeating myself when replying to your messages.

 

I thought I was quite clear on this matter on almost every previous post I made.

 

Here's the extremely short answer: NO I AM NOT!

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Alright, I'll stop arguing with you.

To clarify, though, when I said sentience I probay should have said 'apparent sentience'. My point was that, regardless of what you think is sentient, your method is unlikely to result in something that anyone would call sentient. If you're merely aiming for an empty shell to hallucinate then that's fine, but not what people here would call a tulpa.

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Alright, I'll stop arguing with you.

To clarify, though, when I said sentience I probay should have said 'apparent sentience'. My point was that, regardless of what you think is sentient, your method is unlikely to result in something that anyone would call sentient. If you're merely aiming for an empty shell to hallucinate then that's fine, but not what people here would call a tulpa.

 

^ This. It sounds to me, from the method that you're using, that you're not trying to create a tulpa, just a hallucinatory mental puppet.

I come out of hibernation once in a blue moon.

 

They/them pronouns, please. (I've been using this display name since 2012 and people won't recognize me if I change it.)

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I will however continue with a new project. I will base the form and face on a real person. This is to help me visualize (stable form right from the beginning). Also I did plan out some kind of personality to the previous entity which I will not be doing for the next. I want my workings with this one to reflect on my written thoughts about the whole phenomena. Also I'll make a somewhat rigid schedule.

 

The next project is based on these ideas. I will try to create a thought pattern so automatic that it closely resembles an obsession. There will be a casual (not logging it particularly, habit formation pattern which is basically trying to think about the entity at every waking moment) part to this schedule. This is to be done until no effort (to little effort) is required on my part, so the pattern of thought is constant and automatic.

Then there is the visualization aspect in which I log daily. I already know how it will look, feel and sound like. I attribute no personality qualities, but will not discard any emerging qualities however.

 

I know there's been a lot of controversy in this thread, but i feel like dreampunk isn't as far off the mark as some may think.

 

He isn't going to disbelieve any personality that develops, and intends to allow his tulpa to form their own identity, if one emerges. This sin't that strange. He also isn't going to abanadon any "sentience" that crops up. He just believes that since sentience cannot be proved, whether or not his tulpa is truly sentient is irrelevant.

 

Dreampunk, I don't know if i missinterpruted your battle plan, but do you intend to narrate? And by narration i mean, do you intend to talk to your creation, either by narrating your daily actions to it, or directly? Many believe this is a key step.

"The way is in training."

- Miyamoto Musashi

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Dreampunk, I don't know if i missinterpruted your battle plan, but do you intend to narrate? And by narration i mean, do you intend to talk to your creation, either by narrating your daily actions to it, or directly? Many believe this is a key step.

 

At this point I'll have to answer probably not. I'll just focus mostly on improving my visualization skills and the actual visualization. I may try it when the visualization requires less effort (when I'm more competent at it) and see if it adds anything to it. My approach here is quite minimalistic and I try to "discover" the most minimal way to create the entity. It is easier to pinpoint the actual requirements for tulpa making when there's minimal amount of components.

So essentially I am breaking the whole tulpa phenomenon into parts and start experimenting with the most plausible one first. Depending on the success of this one (and possible insights gained), I might experiment next with the dissociation (of personality) part. Then combine them in a third experiment. But as I am expecting that it might take a year (for no reason at all, purely speculative) I will only keep those in the back of my mind for future workings.

But currently I believe the narration might be relevant only when I have achieved the magical step of having successful imposition experience. I see no harm in there, but minimalism is the magic word here. Also it's something to try after several failed attempts at imposition, as it might be as critical step as it is claimed to be.

Short conclusion: I'll follow my minimalistic routine. If I find out I'm unable to progress at some point, I'll add something others have found helpful. Also adding only one thing (exercise, technique or what not) at a time, so it's possible to pinpoint the actual thing that helped.

This way it is also possible to write somewhat exact guide (as always individual results may and do vary), because it's critical to not only have first hand experience, but also to know what works and most importantly why.

 

Next is for the sake of ending with a quote, not intended as a message to anyone. Just felt like adding one. Also Fight Club is a great, but overrated movie. Now I am just rambling.

 

"Hey, you created me. I didn't create some loser alter-ego to make myself feel better. Take some responsibility!"

-Tyler Durden, Fight Club

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Log entry #1 21.12.2012

 

This time I chose not to use any music. I found it too distracting when visualizing.

I did both autosuggestion and visualization sessions in a row, there was no pause between. Session lasted 11 minutes.

I began by repeating the autosuggestion script over and over for few minutes. Then I proceeded on visualization. I imagined the form (which is based on a real person, but I added a detail the person doesn't have, same tattoo which I have but in different location) completely naked at first (as I intend to do for at least in the beginning until I get it more or less complete). I was having somewhat hard time (no pun intended) visualizing especially the face. Best way to describe it was as if it disappeared leaving nothing behind, I was unable to visualize anything else, it was just blank. I used all my mental effort to just force to see it again and again. The rest was somewhat easier to visualize. I was pleased that I was able to concentrate only to the visualization exercise almost completely, my mind wandered only few times and I was able to bring my attention back.

The hardest part was getting to it, procrastination is a bitch. So for few weeks I'm intentionally keeping my sessions extremely short to establish the routine.

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