fennecgirl

PSA: Don't Call People Roleplayers

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So there's not really a solution. If it's not obvious, then there's no real harm. It's when it's blatant, like "my tupper's making more tuppers and their gunna kill me!!I!!one!" that it gets out of control. Crack down on THEM.


"DUDE! That's wrong! You don't do that! That's like giving a kid a knife and telling him that it's a neck massager!"

Shameless self promotion!

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Chupi Wrote: I won't respond to the diatribe about moderation here since that isn't what this thread is about. What I meant by "we can't put newbies in a bubble" is that it's an impossibility; I was not making a value judgement. Is the place where the roleplaying happened a channel where either you or the .info mod team have any power? If no, then there is squat we can do about this. If yes, my point still stands because people can and will discuss things in places other than the ones we designate.

 

Therefore, unless we can get people to stop discussing anything tulpa related outside of places we can control, protecting people by stopping that RPing is pointless as they would just go elsewhere. We can provide a safe place for people to talk without so much of the harmful influences (which is what we are trying to do). We can encourage people to avoid potential sources of doubt, but that's about as much as we can reasonably do. Still, as much as you try to avoid it, it will still happen -- and having better ways to deal with it when it does is the only solution to that. Ultimately one should build up a system of thinking and a certainty that makes this sort of doubt and detractors have no effect.

 

 

The most ridiculous roleplaying comes from .info members in an off-shoot of a what I assume is a .info channel seeing how it's advertised on the front page. But that isn't to say that #.info and the off-topic channel aren't just as bad when it comes to ridiculous claims and obvious roleplaying, because there's a lot of that there, too. The funniest ones just come from the other channels, though I'm sure they visit #.info too. I don't know too well, I don't stalk them quite that much yet.

 

It's funny how you talk about the bubble and how there's no use in creating one when you are creating one. Again, the whole you can't make anyone cry bullshit. Trying to protect someone's precious feelings because they can't handle it on their own. You're not teaching them to grow a thicker skin which will not only help them in life itself as well as tupperforcing, you're teaching them that crying to mommy solves everything.

 

You think a mod could do something about roleplaying. Like what would you do, even if you had proof? Ban them? Good job. I don't think you understand much about modding. Telling people to avoid the roleplaying places isn't that good of an idea either, as it's better to, you know, see all the shit yourself so you can get used to it and learn how to handle it. I do think there's one thing that mods can do to help so we can avoid tupperdeaths because of bullshit, but it's more about teaching the people and less about getting a mod involved in there and banning everyone. I'm hoping that if the problems are brought to everyone's attention, they will know how to handle them instead of having to face a reality where they think they're the only one seeing something wrong with the community because no one else says anything about it. But let's go to the Slushie quote now.

 

(Yesterday 08:09)Slushie Wrote: Sands, of course there are roleplayers in the community. That's unavoidable. And of course there is the occasional case of a very obvious roleplayer. But everything else is total grey area. For that reason the mods can't really do anything against possible roleplayers because we just don't know. I don't know where you're getting this idea that we tell you to "believe everyone" though. Of course you don't have to believe anyone you don't want to. There is a whole list of people I don't believe, personally. What we can't have is people going around calling each other bullshit, because that doesn't exactly lead to a healthy atmosphere.

 

You're always vocal about this issue, but as of yet I haven't seen you suggest a single actual practical solution to it that you think should be put in motion.

 

 

I see the rules of #.info were actually changed from believe fucking everyone to being allowed to do it if you have a strong reason. Except then instead of a strong reason it ends up being "only if you have proof" or something. If these are the rules. Yeah, sure. It's impossible to have proof in many cases, especially if the troll is good. You won't have your proof unless they finally say that goddammit how gullible are you people, I wasn't being serious. I guess if proof is required for that, then proof should be required for having a tupper, too? Like you're not allowed to say you have one unless you have proof. Good luck getting that proof.

 

But hey, if a contradicting story is all you need...

 

testing Wrote: I have switched before with tulpaes before han, yes, however we did switch the first day she was made.

 

 

testing IRC log about his day one switching with Han Wrote: its the first time i switched but ive done similar things more or less

the body wouldn't do anything

wait what

DarkAnima, it's not the first tulpa I think? but better ask him

now it's the first time?

his story is falling apart

 

 

A healthy atmosphere isn't one where you can't say your opinions or have a debate about something without someone starting to cry about how mean that is. You've made a hugbox that's all kisses and rainbows. That'll only make the newcomers become hugboxers themselves. Remember our slogan "for science!"? I didn't know that meant you can't express your disbelief at something someone else claims happened.

 

What do I think should be done? Well, there's nothing that anyone, mod or member, can do to magically fix everything. But what a mod could do is another... Public service announcement or whatever this is supposed to be about known issues, to show that they are very real and there and actual problems. Not to dance around the subject and pretend it goes away if you ignore it. Here we got the "don't call ppl roleplayers omg" after someone got butthurt on tumblr, why can't we have one about what to expect in a tupper community? Not everyone is a part of .info, but it might help the members get through some of the things they find problematic. Like, I dunno, some pointers like "Not everyone will believe you automatically, don't worry about it or find the reason why they say that", "You are the only one who can know for sure if you have a tupper, it's not someone else's fault for not believing you", "There are roleplayers in this community, you don't have to blindly believe in everyone if you don't think it feels right", "Doubt is not some special entity that eats tuppers for breakfast that should be avoided at all costs, it's normal for humans to doubt, figure out what you used to believe in if you have doubts now" and I guess allowing people to voice their concerns even if they don't have proof, if it helps them put their mind at ease. Something like that, I'm sure there's a lot more someone could add to that, but it would be helpful if the problem was acknowledged by the community's leaders in a public manner.

 

A community is supposed to talk and again, you know, for science and all that jazz. We can't do research, we don't have any equipment, we can't have proof. But we could at least present ourselves as something professional and skeptical, as might be expected from a scientific community. A hugbox where you can't voice your concern without undeniable proof is not that. All everyone has about anything here are theories of tuppers and stuff. Why can't we have theories about roleplayers? "Because it's harmful" you might say, but aren't some theories possibly harmful to some? Like if they say tuppers don't exist? Is that any more or less harmful?

 

 

I am the dude, and I was asked to do this.

 

You know what the dude does.


Ayo grill how you be?

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Sands there's no "science" involved in expressing disbelief at someone's claims regarding their tulpa just because they sound silly to you. Guess what: everyone has different standards of what sounds silly to them, so that's hardly an objective metric. The only solid way of pointing out roleplayers is proof, usually in the form of contradicting statements like you mentioned.

 

I mean, after all you've said, I still don't really understand what you want. What you consider an acceptable alternative to the "hugbox" model we have now. Allowing members to be hostile towards and attempt to ostracize "obvious roleplayers?" There are almost no objective "obvious roleplayers". To much of the outside world, having a tulpa period is "obviously roleplaying". What good does expressing disbelief do when it's based on nothing but personal feeling? It results in nothing but disruption of discussion of what very well may be legitimate claims.

 

Again, having skepticism is fine and definitely healthy; I just don't understand the supposed value of expressing disbelief publicly. It's not an effective means of keeping out liars; it's only an effective way of turning the community into an echo chamber of people whose claims meet the believable standards of the loudest group.


Astral project on my face, brother!

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Lemme tell you what expressing it publicly ends up doing. How about it first of all weeds out the people who can't handle the strain of actually someone saying something against them, how horrible. It would bump the apparent "professionalism" this "professional" site wanted to have, which is still a huge problem in the eyes of... Oh, a lot of the members who wanted this site to be something and left in disgust. And as far as I know, Pleeb still wants this site to be professional in the way it handles this tupper thing. It's not professional to cry about critique. Another thing, it means we're being open and honest. There's too much secrecy going on in these forums, too many hidden boards and channels only for the select few where they talk shit behind someone's back about whatever. That's kind of a dick thing to do. At least saying your feelings to someone means you're being honest about them. Keeping them inside you does no good to your relationship. You tell me, when has a problem between two people been solved by both of them keeping their yaps shut about the problems they have with each other? If you let them talk (and it might end up having more than just two people in a large community like this), even if they don't end up being friends and agreeing with each other, at least they know what they are thinking about them and probably end up being much better off than if they just tried to keep it all in. That ain't healthy. And then there's the whole thing of people outside this community thinking all of us are roleplayers, but if they see us lap up even the most ridiculous stories of others, that ain't going to change their opinion on us. Them seeing us also being skeptical about someone else's claim might tell them that hey, this guy doesn't believe in those even though they're in the same boat, why not? Does he know something I don't? Or something like that.

 

Where did I say "hostile"? See, this is what I'm worried about, in this community and many others. People automatically think not agreeing with someone means you're hostile towards them. It's not an attack. Discussion builds all of those who take a part of it. A hugboxer who thinks every bit of negativity is an attack apparently doesn't understand that, and that makes life difficult to live. You're not going to be protected forever, you're going to have to learn how to deal with problems yourself. If I say I don't believe, a discussion will follow. Or doesn't. In the first case, new things might be learned which might skew mine or someone else's opinion on this particular case - and let's assume a host or tupper who doesn't cry at the slightest sign of someone not believing them. It will most likely help the accused to understand why they were accused in the first place and if there perhaps is something they need to do to be taken seriously. What if something ridiculous that happened because they are mentally unstable and helping them to realize that and find the root will fix many problems? It's a win/win situation, really. In the second case, no harm done, they didn't care and they believe in themselves enough not to care about what others say. Or just don't want to blow their cover. In any case, it doesn't do anything.

 

In the past, there have been threads about skeptics expressing their disbelief and interesting conversations have emerged. Why would you want to stop them from happening? They are a part of this community and an important one at that. Instead of trying to escape everything negative and all the doubts, seeing someone else's doubts might make you think why you disagree with them and write those down. Those will help both and all of the people who read the thread. Why wouldn't it work in IRC? Wrong kind of community? Is that honestly the kind of a community you wish to build and pamper? It is impossible to please everyone. Which of the people do you wish to please? How do you want to look like to the rest of the world and even your own community?

 

tl;dr, I believe allowing people to speak their opinions without trying to hide them will end up in a much healthier community from every possible angle you can look at. It will end in interesting discussion, stronger character, honesty between members as well as developing their writing and mental skills. People would be open and they would learn to handle problems others might cause them in their lives. And hell, they probably will learn what problems they cause themselves, too. When a discussion turns into nothing but calling each other names, that's a stupid flamewar. When there's a point, even if buried in there somewhere, it's a discussion that will help those in it grow in some way, no matter how "hostile" it looks in your eyes. Sheltered kids go nowhere, having them settle their matters on their own teaches them. Be a good parent of this community and let the kids do what they need to do.


The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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Amen Sands

 

Let me just express that tact and politeness is always a good thing, especially when disagreeing with someone.

 

[2/14/2013 3:39:40 AM] Viceroy: Be patient with others

[2/14/2013 3:39:43 AM] Viceroy: Be surgical

[2/14/2013 3:39:54 AM] Viceroy: You usually can't just pull out the cancer

[2/14/2013 3:40:09 AM] Viceroy: You have to cut through other parts of the body that have built up around the cancer, sometimes because of it

[2/14/2013 3:40:56 AM] Viceroy: To cut all that away is not just cutting away that undesirable part of the person, it is cutting away everything in their life that has been built around it, other qualties that are reflections of it, sometimes hobbies or pass-times or attitudes

[2/14/2013 3:41:27 AM] Viceroy: That's what the rubber gloves are for - no personal bias, no personal agenda, no politics, to contaminate your operation for their benefit

[2/14/2013 3:41:49 AM] Viceroy: That's what a small, sharp knife, is for. Tact. Gentleness.

[2/14/2013 3:41:53 AM] Viceroy: Not a samurai sword.

[2/14/2013 3:42:17 AM] Viceroy: It's not precise enough. It's violent. You end up cutting away parts that never needed to go.

[2/14/2013 3:42:37 AM] Viceroy: Sometimes it takes multiple sessions of surgery.

[2/14/2013 3:43:22 AM] Viceroy: Sometimes you can only do so much. Sometimes it might feel you didn't do anything. That's why it's good to do a good job, so they will come back, and let you back into their stomach again

[2/14/2013 3:43:41 AM] Viceroy: Tact. Patience. Compassion.

[2/14/2013 3:43:55 AM] Viceroy: It is always good to have more of that.

 

Proverbs 15:1

Proverbs 1:5-6

Proverbs 25:11

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Sands there's no "science" involved in expressing disbelief at someone's claims regarding their tulpa just because they sound silly to you. Guess what: everyone has different standards of what sounds silly to them, so that's hardly an objective metric. The only solid way of pointing out roleplayers is proof, usually in the form of contradicting statements like you mentioned.

 

I mean, after all you've said, I still don't really understand what you want. What you consider an acceptable alternative to the "hugbox" model we have now. Allowing members to be hostile towards and attempt to ostracize "obvious roleplayers?" There are almost no objective "obvious roleplayers". To much of the outside world, having a tulpa period is "obviously roleplaying". What good does expressing disbelief do when it's based on nothing but personal feeling? It results in nothing but disruption of discussion of what very well may be legitimate claims.

 

Again, having skepticism is fine and definitely healthy; I just don't understand the supposed value of expressing disbelief publicly. It's not an effective means of keeping out liars; it's only an effective way of turning the community into an echo chamber of people whose claims meet the believable standards of the loudest group.

 

Please tell me you dont seriously believe in tulpa periods. I mean, I have heard some shit, but like, seriously? The whole thing about tulpae is that they are in your head, no meta involved, but saying it got periods? naaaw...

 

It is acceptable that a tulpa is a chick and that the host is a dude, but that does not mean tulpae gets hormones from a grill. Dun work like dat i think.


Ayo grill how you be?

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TULPA♥INFO

[Kevin says: the fine-print in that image in your signature is hard to read. Myself. I would doubt that tulpas are real, except that Watchdog 1 and 2 regularly drive me home. That makes it really hard to discount them existing. They are strong enough after all these years they frankly don't care if I believe in them or not - it doesn't affect their driving in the least.

 

I also notice that Nobillis and I use the word "certainly" far too frequently. She's picking my bad habits already. I'm at the point where the question almost has become, do my tulpas believe I'm real? So far, yes; perhaps as a pet instead of a cat I guess? I find it amusing that a lot of people have no idea that I exist, and get quite surprised on those rare days when I'm awake and talking.

 

I really don't treat this very seriously. As Nobillis recently said to a (human) friend "If you're not enjoying this then you are missing the point." I think she's right.

 

Be well.

 

Kevin (a nominal human)]


Please consider supporting Tulpa.info.


 

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People tell me my stories are crazy and ridiculous, and they accuse me of roleplaying; what if they're right and I just don't know it?

 

Surely you would know if you yourself are roleplaying or not and if you are not roleplaying, why then would you even think you are roleplaying just cause someone said you were? That part of your post didnt make any sense.

 

Even the rule "if you're not sure, it's your tulpa" is hard to believe at times. The harsh accusations of others honestly contribute a lot to these feelings of doubt.

 

I personally dont at all believe in that rule.. so to me it would be completely wrong to make myself believe something I wasnt sure about. Cause fooling oneself could come back and slap one in the face later when one realises one was just fooling thereselves.

 

I've become reluctant sometimes to post updates. I used to love sharing things that happened with me and my tulpae. Nowadays, I'm more reluctant to. I often leave out details or even refrain from posting things entirely because I'm afraid of what people will say.

 

That I do understand. I myself wont keep a journal here at this site (I do have an online journal thou but its private) as some of my experiences have been very unusual. I think if you are worried about what people may say and that will bother you, its best to not worry about it and just dont post the experiences. Its a pity but there is no way for people to often tell role players from non roleplayers esp if the experiences are unusual or strange.

 

So, please, don't call people out on roleplaying. Most of the time, this so-called "roleplayer" is not a roleplayer, but a legitimate tulpamancer, and I know from firsthand experience the kinds of real problems that these sorts of accusations can cause.

 

Even if that person is actually a roleplayer, then so what? Does it really matter? They're not hurting anybody, so let them be.

 

The thing is roleplayers are hurting others in various ways eg my time is very valuable to me and I dont want to be wasting time I could be learning more about Tulpas throu others experiences, by wasting my time on made up stories.

 

Roleplayers should be at a roleplaying site posting not here where people are genuinely wanting to know about Tulpas and causing much confusion among the whole community as the real stories cant be easily told from the roleplay ones. Roleplayers too just tend to attract more roleplayers. And one thing Ive noticed is that newbies to this who dont know any better, can then go believing and then quoting what the roleplayer has said as a fact to other newbies. It certainly doesnt help them learn about Tulpas or the science of the whole thing. Roleplayers are selfish people who have no idea of the harm they cause, who spoil the site for everyone else.

 

Roleplayers cause those of us who have stranger genuine stories.. to feel like we cant post here as people will think we are one of the roleplayers. You say you have experienced that yourself, so how can you say that the roleplayers arent doing any harm. The whole reason many of us cant post is cause of those selfish roleplayers who choose what should be a place of learning and study to play their games.

 

It's okay to be skeptical of what others claim. That's understandable. Just, please, keep quiet about it and show them some respect. Even I've had my doubts about some people, but I have never once accused anybody of being a roleplayer.

 

You can have your doubts, but please keep them to yourself. There's no reason to call anybody a roleplayer, and doing so only creates problems.

 

Not confronting roleplayers also creates issues as it then just gives them a trouble free place to attention seek. I agree thou it is also an issue the other way with confronting people too as many people believe the stranger things they've experienced too and the person being called out may be genuine. Its a pity when that happens but the alternative that role players are never commented on.. could make many genuine people leave if the roleplayers all get too much. (I myself wouldnt stay here if there was too many roleplayers as I want to be reading genuine things, I want to be around other genuine people). Over time if roleplayers are never confronted, it would mean a site such as this will go further and further downhill as more use the site to roleplay.


Jesse (human male) DOB 16th April 2013 

Working on imposition

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but as of yet I haven't seen you suggest a single actual practical solution to it that you think should be put in motion.

 

I have one solution for all this. And I'm going to use the help of good ol' Morgan Freeman. When questioned about Black History month in- you know what, here's a video snippet that should get what I'm trying to say.

 

I'm going to focus on when this is said:

Interviewer: How are we going to get rid of racism-?

Morgan: Stop talking about it!

 

I beg of you to call me out on my retardism when I say the only practical way to rid of roleplaying—much like racism—is to simply shut up about it. Don't bother with those who do roleplay, and if you do, then you're just feeding them. Much in the same way the saying goes, 'don't feed the trolls', we can't feed the rolplayers. As many have rightfully pointed out, the majority of role players are attention seekers, children, if you will. And normally we'd discipline children by using a pat on the wrist or a stern talking to which we all know wont work. And seeing as we can't exactly pin point who's a role player and who's not to give a proper caning to, the only solution left is to simply ignore them.

 

You ask any professional animal trainer

(Cesar Millan, our holy savoir, please show us the way)

or child minder the best way to deal with those who crave attention? You ignore them. Without attention they'll get bored and leave. I thought we all knew where the term 'attention seeker' is derived from; come on people!

 

Not only will this slowly but surely get rid of all the attention seekers, it will also save anyone who isn't the grief of being called one. (And trust me, it's... let's say... frustrating when it happens. No matter how thick a skin someone has, wrongful accusation is always a bite on the ass) And I'm sure you're wondering what we're going to do will all those lesser minded people who don't realise this is the best course of action? Well you sure as hell don't call them out in any nasty, upsetting way that might make them drop their juice bottle. You calmly and politely tell them that they should simply stop giving the person attention and move on. I've seen far too many a time someone with good intent, the right idea behind it, but just being a complete asshole and flying off the handle bars with their 'enlightenment' of the other person. IN that case, they achieve nothing to help themselves or anyone else, similar to the Spoiler Effect in politics.

You see, the different between roleplaying and racism, it that racism is global, while tulpas are generally confined to a few select places. Very easy to manage given a few die hard believes (and seeing as they aren't hard to come by for other beliefs, I think were in the green).

 

It's the only practical way, and the only fair way. It eliminates all the problems we have. But if you're too impatient for that? Self ban for a year, or maybe stop making a tulpa; those things need a helluva lot of patience. And for those who think that it's their 'duty' to seek out roleplayer and smite them down into the shameful recesses of angry PMs. Please, stop. You're not a knight in holy armour, and outwardly appear only as an asshole who feeds those who crave attention. Any publicity is good publicity; any attention it possessive attention.

 

 

tl;dr

If you see a roleplayer, just move on, they'll give up eventually.


Pruria Joal (Pegasus)

Working on: Imposition

Hieldy (Moogle)

Working on: Possession/imposition

Samantha (Griffon)

Working on: Deafness/form

 

And please, call me G.

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tl;dr but not talking about problems is one of the surest ways to perpetuate them.

 

The goal of political correctness is to ignore problems by pretending they aren't there but that does not make them go away.

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