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Is doubt beneficial?


Couguhl

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If you are in possession

pun intended

of a tulpa, then there is a good chance that you have run into your fair share of doubt, be it doubting sentience, the way you are going about the creation process, or simply the concept in general. It seems almost natural. Doubt is widely seen as a roadblock to progress, but is it actually beneficial?

 

In almost all instances of doubt that I have seen within this community, the host later reports some sort of emotional strengthening. And it's typically pretty significant. Simply reading Pleeb's progress stories are a clear indication of this.

 

Doubt is seen as a stagnant point in development, but perhaps it is just perceived to be so, similar to a caterpillar in a cocoon.

 

Discuss.

Tulpa: Sierra

Forcing since July 2012

Couguhl’s Progress Report

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I might not say it's the doubt so much as the cause surrounding the doubt and the recovery from it. Doubt over a long period of time generally doesn't seem to spawn a suddenly huge amount of progress, but a short, quick moment of doubt often leads to a tulpa giving the host a very clear reason to not doubt. I've seen one host who was with his tulpa for near 7 months before suddenly giving up, denouncing her as something he surely had made up, there was no way this could be true. Later that night he couldn't ignore her crying out to him, he realized despite all his sureness in her not being there, she continued to push through and get his attention. That alone cleared up the doubt he never realized he had until that one moment of giving up, which them strengthened their bond even more.

 

Another thing I relate it to is a bit like a young developing artist. Often times the most drastic times of improvement are when the artist believes their skill is stagnant or even getting worse, simply because they've been looking a bit too hard at the whole thing, or because their mind is developing enough to see flaws they couldn't have just a short time ago. A host might feel doubt in a time when their tulpa is growing, fearing that their progress has stopped, until they realize how far they had come in that time. When the host and the tulpa realize how much they really have been growing the whole time.

 

 

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Doubt itself isn't beneficial, it's getting over it that is. It's learning a new level of trust with your tulpa, so of course there will be some emotional bonding that goes on between them. However, even though there is a lot of bonding that happens, you still have to take into account the fact that doubt /does/ prevent progress. I had only a couple days of doubting, which we got over quickly and grew closer and stronger because we found a way to get over it quickly. I think asking if doubt is beneficial is akin to asking if, say, the mooks in any video game that are out to kill you are beneficial. They themselves are not, but the experience you gain from overcoming them is.

 

I might not say it's the doubt so much as the cause surrounding the doubt and the recovery from it. Doubt over a long period of time generally doesn't seem to spawn a suddenly huge amount of progress, but a short, quick moment of doubt often leads to a tulpa giving the host a very clear reason to not doubt. I've seen one host who was with his tulpa for near 7 months before suddenly giving up, denouncing her as something he surely had made up, there was no way this could be true. Later that night he couldn't ignore her crying out to him, he realized despite all his sureness in her not being there, she continued to push through and get his attention. That alone cleared up the doubt he never realized he had until that one moment of giving up, which them strengthened their bond even more.

 

Another thing I relate it to is a bit like a young developing artist. Often times the most drastic times of improvement are when the artist believes their skill is stagnant or even getting worse, simply because they've been looking a bit too hard at the whole thing, or because their mind is developing enough to see flaws they couldn't have just a short time ago. A host might feel doubt in a time when their tulpa is growing, fearing that their progress has stopped, until they realize how far they had come in that time. When the host and the tulpa realize how much they really have been growing the whole time.

 

Very thought provoking.

Tulpa: Sierra

Forcing since July 2012

Couguhl’s Progress Report

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If you are in possession

pun intended

of a tulpa, then there is a good chance that you have run into your fair share of doubt, be it doubting sentience, the way you are going about the creation process, or simply the concept in general. It seems almost natural. Doubt is widely seen as a roadblock to progress, but is it actually beneficial?

 

In almost all instances of doubt that I have seen within this community, the host later reports some sort of emotional strengthening. And it's typically pretty significant. Simply reading Pleeb's progress stories are a clear indication of this.

 

Doubt is seen as a stagnant point in development, but perhaps it is just perceived to be so, similar to a caterpillar in a cocoon.

 

Discuss.

 

 

[i don't think doubting is really all that beneficial (if it's just doubting being used for "progress" or "emotional strengthening") , I feel it's just delaying the inevitable, but it doesn't mean we can't be devoid of the temptation to just not commit to something. Sometimes it's simply being overwhelmed with all sorts of things a host can do in their tulpa-related endeavors, like for instance, lately, I haven't been as ambitious with practicing Eva's vocal skills because I mentioned in another thread that had a similar question like this that I was afraid of what would happen when things come through. I'm not sure if you're saying the doubting "seems almost natural," but if that's the case, we are able to imagine the negatives more than being optimistic.

 

It depends on what you're actually doing for doubting to be "beneficial."

 

 

- If you were just starting out with the concept of tulpa, and went through the whole sentience presuming mindset and all, doubting something you might do or a concept you're trying to get used to might be just you thinking twice before making an action instead. Especially if the host isn't as good in managing themselves and evaluating themselves decently (just knowing what they like, how they interact with people, how they are when alone, etc.), they might find themselves thinking they're going through this blindly. Then they try to gather insight from other people before making an action so they can get some consolation in the fact that they're not alone. So in a way, yes, "doubting" in this aspect might be beneficial for the host so that they can start gathering and researching other people's perspectives before they start building their own fundamentals; but again, I think it's more of thinking twice.

 

 

- If it were something like trying to analyze the totality of your tulpa(s) existence and character, you might start doubting and being a worry wart on whether or not their actions and behaviors might transcend into something you could do. We do have to have a little blind faith here and there, which I think is what people worry about because again, they worry about trivial things that can't really happen unless they made consistent and militant approaches in making it so. So in this case, doubting wouldn't be beneficial in terms of embracing your tulpa(s) existence in your perception of reality. And it's doubly worse if you're doubting and you're not telling your tulpa about your worries and concerns. However, at the same time, the doubting itself introduces you to more questions, presuming you can control your anxiety, and if you can manage between knowing how to moderate your reaction towards negative thoughts, the questions themselves helps you grow and gain more knowledge about how you see your tulpa (mentally, emotionally, visually, etc.). But to actually see things in an objective view without the emotions of doubting affecting you is difficult, since you can't really be devoid of aspects of your mind obviously. However, if you can have the mentality where you can frequently recollect your thoughts and being calm when push comes to shove with the doubting, this could be a scenario where the doubting is helpful, but only as a catalyst for questions.

 

- If the person were to actually have a tulpa-related activity (forcing/vocal training/imposition), doubting might just delay progress, since things aren't supposed to be perfect and absolute in the first place. If the person worries more about what might happen in a bad way rather than just being confident, going through the process, and knowing their tulpa won't go crazy or anything, then that's definitely where doubting is a huge detriment than a benefit. If it were something like possession training, maybe doubting would be crucial, if not, a matter of life and death. Example for my reason for stating that is training your tulpa to possess a part or a set of your body parts and muscles when driving a car/walking down the street with a ticking walking light. That's where doubting, or thinking twice is helpful, because there's a higher risk, but if you're laying down on the bed and practicing possession and/or switching, then it's not so bad.

 

So really, the level of doubting is equal to the level of risk (but again, completely subjective since people have varying degrees in coping with certain risks and things to come before them), and although we can't make a absolute scale of what's low-risk and high-risk, overall, making a game plan and knowing what you're going to do is a good mental insurance that as long as you do things a certain way, or that you're in a certain environment that promotes safety, then the doubting isn't necessary. This is why Brandon became more interested in self-hypnosis for tulpa-related tasks, because being in a safe environment while doing it, he can have higher inward attention and reaching a high state of suggestibility towards the goal he has in mind, thus reducing the chances of being doubtful (and being more confident and optimistic instead), and he gets the results he wants (and if he could research NLP hypnosis a bit more, he could aim for precise goals that he can build up on). So in a way, making a system (that can also allow you to work around it and add things if needed) and knowing that certain actions for a specific goal will yield so and so results means doubting would be a detriment.

 

It's kind of hard to explain, but it's just building up on your confidence, self-esteem, and competence in your tulpa-related goals progressively. Doubting and being skeptical about something is always helpful IF you can start answering the questions that came about from the negative thoughts and/or second guessing. I think confidence, doubting/being skeptical, being optimistic and even idealistic have to be interchanged, mixed in, and shifted accordingly to give practical results. So if doubting is used as a supplement that can lead to those other actions I mentioned (questioning and answering yourself, etc.), then yes, it's beneficial.]

 

-Eva

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[i don't think doubting is really all that beneficial (if it's just doubting being used for "progress" or "emotional strengthening") , I feel it's just delaying the inevitable, but it doesn't mean we can't be devoid of the temptation to just not commit to something. Sometimes it's simply being overwhelmed with all sorts of things a host can do in their tulpa-related endeavors, like for instance, lately, I haven't been as ambitious with practicing Eva's vocal skills because I mentioned in another thread that had a similar question like this that I was afraid of what would happen when things come through. I'm not sure if you're saying the doubting "seems almost natural," but if that's the case, we are able to imagine the negatives more than being optimistic.

 

It depends on what you're actually doing for doubting to be "beneficial."

 

 

- If you were just starting out with the concept of tulpa, and went through the whole sentience presuming mindset and all, doubting something you might do or a concept you're trying to get used to might be just you thinking twice before making an action instead. Especially if the host isn't as good in managing themselves and evaluating themselves decently (just knowing what they like, how they interact with people, how they are when alone, etc.), they might find themselves thinking they're going through this blindly. Then they try to gather insight from other people before making an action so they can get some consolation in the fact that they're not alone. So in a way, yes, "doubting" in this aspect might be beneficial for the host so that they can start gathering and researching other people's perspectives before they start building their own fundamentals; but again, I think it's more of thinking twice.

 

 

- If it were something like trying to analyze the totality of your tulpa(s) existence and character, you might start doubting and being a worry wart on whether or not their actions and behaviors might transcend into something you could do. We do have to have a little blind faith here and there, which I think is what people worry about because again, they worry about trivial things that can't really happen unless they made consistent and militant approaches in making it so. So in this case, doubting wouldn't be beneficial in terms of embracing your tulpa(s) existence in your perception of reality. And it's doubly worse if you're doubting and you're not telling your tulpa about your worries and concerns. However, at the same time, the doubting itself introduces you to more questions, presuming you can control your anxiety, and if you can manage between knowing how to moderate your reaction towards negative thoughts, the questions themselves helps you grow and gain more knowledge about how you see your tulpa (mentally, emotionally, visually, etc.). But to actually see things in an objective view without the emotions of doubting affecting you is difficult, since you can't really be devoid of aspects of your mind obviously. However, if you can have the mentality where you can frequently recollect your thoughts and being calm when push comes to shove with the doubting, this could be a scenario where the doubting is helpful, but only as a catalyst for questions.

 

- If the person were to actually have a tulpa-related activity (forcing/vocal training/imposition), doubting might just delay progress, since things aren't supposed to be perfect and absolute in the first place. If the person worries more about what might happen in a bad way rather than just being confident, going through the process, and knowing their tulpa won't go crazy or anything, then that's definitely where doubting is a huge detriment than a benefit. If it were something like possession training, maybe doubting would be crucial, if not, a matter of life and death. Example for my reason for stating that is training your tulpa to possess a part or a set of your body parts and muscles when driving a car/walking down the street with a ticking walking light. That's where doubting, or thinking twice is helpful, because there's a higher risk, but if you're laying down on the bed and practicing possession and/or switching, then it's not so bad.

 

So really, the level of doubting is equal to the level of risk (but again, completely subjective since people have varying degrees in coping with certain risks and things to come before them), and although we can't make a absolute scale of what's low-risk and high-risk, overall, making a game plan and knowing what you're going to do is a good mental insurance that as long as you do things a certain way, or that you're in a certain environment that promotes safety, then the doubting isn't necessary. This is why Brandon became more interested in self-hypnosis for tulpa-related tasks, because being in a safe environment while doing it, he can have higher inward attention and reaching a high state of suggestibility towards the goal he has in mind, thus reducing the chances of being doubtful (and being more confident and optimistic instead), and he gets the results he wants (and if he could research NLP hypnosis a bit more, he could aim for precise goals that he can build up on). So in a way, making a system (that can also allow you to work around it and add things if needed) and knowing that certain actions for a specific goal will yield so and so results means doubting would be a detriment.

 

It's kind of hard to explain, but it's just building up on your confidence, self-esteem, and competence in your tulpa-related goals progressively. Doubting and being skeptical about something is always helpful IF you can start answering the questions that came about from the negative thoughts and/or second guessing. I think confidence, doubting/being skeptical, being optimistic and even idealistic have to be interchanged, mixed in, and shifted accordingly to give practical results. So if doubting is used as a supplement that can lead to those other actions I mentioned (questioning and answering yourself, etc.), then yes, it's beneficial.]

 

-Eva

 

Very true in my opinion.

 

"Doubting and being skeptical about something is always helpful IF you can start answering the questions that came about from the negative thoughts and/or second guessing." - If someone can oppose to this, i'm willing to hear and learn. :cool:

 

____________________

 

 

Doubting is probably sort of meaningless if you started doubting in this whole thing after a few days of having progress. IMO it will just add a meaningless obstacle. It may change things (you never know), but it probably won't be meaning too much importance or anything like that.

Still dreaming..

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Very true in my opinion.

 

"Doubting and being skeptical about something is always helpful IF you can start answering the questions that came about from the negative thoughts and/or second guessing." - If someone can oppose to this, i'm willing to hear and learn. :cool:

 

____________________

 

Since that was Eva that gave her opinion on this, I'll give my opinion on how it might not always be that way. What Eva said about doubting being used as a precedent, or a catalyst in answering the questions that can come about with the negative thoughts, etc., yes, it can be beneficial. But at the same time, some people aren't honest with themselves, and by honest, not just admitting nitpicks of honesty, I mean full-blown introspection of their strengths and flaws.

 

Example of this:

 

- Your typical tulpaforcer might admit to some things he/she isn't good at (being confident that their tulpa will inevitably become autonomous), but they won't go deeper than that. Sometimes poking at yourself with things you never bothered to over-explain or to give a good and deep discussion about with yourself and/or your tulpa can be helpful. I feel that if you try to give it your all, getting information out of yourself gets easier. By that, I mean being able to say a lot about yourself without having to take back what you said and modifying it. Because those same things you decided to change JUST might be things you need to work on in order to elevate yourself higher on having a healthy life along with your tulpa(e).

 

So what Eva stated with that phrase you quoted implies the person themselves are proficient in being self-responsible and honest with themselves to the point where they can have an interior dialogue about themselves, whether it's seeing bits of passive-aggressiveness, or insecurities about things like sexuality, gender, morality, ethics, etc. This is why I feel it's helpful to record your feelings (writing/typing/or using a recorder) and just going at it in one go without stopping to analyze things for one second. It's rough at first, and you might find yourself stopping because you can't think as much, but it gets better with practice.

 

I used to do this on another forum (where I basically ranted about things on my mind), and because of that, I can get my thoughts out faster, even if they make me feel weak and insecure. Then when I come back with a cool and relaxed mind, I analyze how I felt at the time and find ways to cope or resolve how I react to whatever situation I talk about.

 

Speaking with your tulpa on what's on your mind is very, very, very helpful in my personal opinion. There's nothing worse than having your tulpa, who is genuinely concerned for you (if you helped them practice compassion) not being able to know why you're feeling depressed/sad/or just not being your usual self.

 

Example (sorry, I feel examples helps with what I've stated):

 

- Let's say the host doesn't like guns at all because of some traumatic event. Maybe they used guns before as a means of protection, and there was a moment where they found that not being accurate enough cost a life of someone they held dearly to them. Let's presume they have a tulpa, and their tulpa sees their host cringing at the sight of a hand-gun from a police, and the police has to shoot someone for the sake of the safety of the general public. The person might start having nostalgic moments, and they might run away after seeing that current experience. They're home, and their tulpa asks what's wrong, and the host seems too bothered with how they're trying to handle the situation just now with the police that had to shoot someone (who probably died or was majorly wounded). Their tulpa encourages them to speak whatever is on their mind, and the host might look around random space, feeling afraid to admit the truth to their tulpa. But they'll eventually tell them their story (assuming the tulpa didn't access that section of their memory), and their tulpa might say something like,

 

"If you didn't have that weapon yourself, there could've been moments where me and you probably wouldn't be alive today, right?"

 

That question alone, even if it was something the host knew was true, was probably just something they didn't want to believe in the first place. The truth pierces them, and when it helps them cool down a bit, they come to the realization that having a weapon to protect themselves is necessary, even if at times mistakes can happen to where a person's life is lost because of it; it's sort of a necessary evil (the weapon).

 

So if they talked things out with their tulpa, they would be able to go back to a principle they lost sight of before and improve on it, thus the realization being an example of emotional strengthening and personal improvement. The example itself is a bit inconsistent, but I hope you get what I mean on why it's important how we can make realistic answers that can help us from the questions that come about from the negative thinking. Some people might start answering in a negative way and not allow themselves to find some optimism, so the questions themselves might only increase the doubting, so having competence in being honest with yourself and being self-aware is what I feel (but are just few ways) in determining the type of outlook you get out of the answer.

 

 

 

Doubting is probably sort of meaningless if you started doubting in this whole thing after a few days of having progress. IMO it will just add a meaningless obstacle. It may change things (you never know), but it probably won't be meaning too much importance or anything like that.

 

It depends, and it's very true that doubting so much to where you're not doing anything at all makes it meaningless, but the fact that people are doubting could mean they're trying to be thoughtful of their soon-to-be tulpa(e). I was like that initially, doubting almost any concept related to tulpa, but I knew that this was something for my own sake, and created my own set of reasons (that are always progressively growing and improving with each moment I have with my tulpa and even with just myself) in order to dilute those urges to doubt too much

 

And I'm sure that we all have that little thought slip into our mind that being strong (emotionally, mentally, even spiritually if you want to, etc.), but not strong enough can scare us. It's a matter of taking charge of that negative emotion before it takes over you. When you can do that, nothing can stop you from growing, everything you experience, both good and bad, teaches you and helps you add on to your moral and/or ethic code.

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Doubt is a natural response to something this fantastical, but it is something to be overcome. If one never experiences doubt, good on them, but if they do, they have to get over it. It can happen such that doubt may destroy someone's ability to make a tulpa, but it could also happen such that doubt may act as something to be overcome that strengthens the bond between tulpa and host.

 

Either way, preconceived notions about this will probably be bad. Don't "expect" doubt, but do understand that it is okay to worry now and then, but not enough to severely mess things up.

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Doubt does for tulpa development what fighting does for a relationship between two people. You learn to get past the problem and doing so makes you stronger and more able to handle it when it happens in the future. Or you don't overcome it, in which case you're toast.

Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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Guest Anonymous

I beleive doubt is just as beneficial as it is detrimental. Like just about anything in existance, there's a good side and a bad side to everything.

 

To start with the detrimental, tulpalamas thrive on the attention and notation of the fact that they are real. When the doubt sets in, the tulpa doesn't get the propper stimuli and is ultimately negatively affected by said doubt. This could be through depression for example, and eventually the thought that they, in fact, could not be real, leading to the desire to commit egocide, and/or dissipate, seeing their existance as meaningless. Doubt in that respect is a bad thing because it can always lead to an unhealthy tulpa, or for those who are willing to give up too easily, quit on the tulpa alltogether, effectively putting them into a state of mind decay.

 

HOWEVER, doubt I believe is a good thing because it leads to something I find severely lacking in the community today and that's "time". Doubt can lead to a tulpa taking longer than they might with an absence of doubt and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Because of so many dobutless individuals that end up making tulpalamas in almost nothing flat, the time and effort that I believe is beneficial to a tulpa to be developed.

 

For example, lets say you have a tulpa that you're certain can move on their own, but you're not competely sure that they're vocal... hell, lets take it a step further, and you not completely sure that your tulpa has moved at all! The one who really wants tulpa will no doubt still have doubt, but at the same time they'll push through that doubt, going through the time that it takes to let the doubt sink back into the darkest regions of your subconcious, and eventually you overcome said doubt.

 

In a way, the existance of doubt within your mind makes you actually work for your tulpa rather than believing every single response constitutes the signs of sentience (which I still have a firm belief is at least "present" at the start... it's strength is another story, but this entire parenthesis is another conversation alltogether)

 

Another thing I believe is good about doubt, and this is just a nitpick, but it at least shows that you've still willing to think about things. Arguably, you're not supposed to think about how much your tulpa has been moving and just let them do it, but by thinking about it, by doubting, I believe that it shows a little more worry about the tulpa. Shows that you're willing to think about them... whether you let that doubt get in the way of actual responses though is another story.

 

In short, doubt is a bad thing if you let it be a bad thing. Doubt can also be a good thing both for yourself and the tulpa as well. Doubt is what you make of it in the end.

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