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8 months in, no vocality


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The most confusing thing to me right now is why this hasn't worked yet. I've done everything I was supposed to do in terms of narrating and talking to her. She stays in the room with me almost 24/7, I try to remember she's there, I talk to her occasionally throughout each day, I make sure that I'm talking to her rather than just narrating to myself, and I just don't know why we're still essentially at the beginning after all this time.

 

We started back in November 2012. I've read about how it can take months for vocality to happen, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least a little bit overdue. It's been the kind of time frame where I feel like by now we should be able to do all sorts of cool stuff like possession and maybe even imposition and switching, but she can't even speak to me. I'm pretty sure my past self was looking forward to having progressed as far as one would expect to progress after 8 months, but that hope has been totally crushed.

 

I'm not sure how much she's able to think for herself. A lot of the time it seems like she only acts the way she's supposed to act when I remember how she's supposed to act in the particular situation, at which point she follows suit. And no, I'm pretty sure this isn't deviation, it seems more like she's just regressing to a generic state where her personality gets forgotten and she reacts to everything in a default, standardized human sort of way. Whenever there's a situation where she would do something specific and different from most people, and I think about how she'll do it, it feels like the reason she then proceeds to do it in that manner is only because I thought about it, and that if I didn't, she'd just do it the way most people do it.

 

I can hear her speak if I know what she's going to say, but it doesn't feel alien, it feels like it's halfway between parroting and hearing her for real. And whenever she's supposed to say something where I don't know what she'll say, it's just total silence/mumbled gibberish... unless I consciously think about what her answer should be, at which point I can hear her in an obviously parroted sort of manner where it's just my own mindvoice dressing up as hers. So, don't try to tell me that her answers aren't being parroted, because I know they are. If she could speak on her own, she wouldn't need me to think about her responses for her.

 

So, my question is, what in the ever loving fuck have we been doing wrong this entire time, and what can we do to begin making actual progress? Tulpamancing is the most important thing in my life right now, and the fact that I'm getting nowhere with it (not to mention thinking about how much further we could have gotten throughout all these months) is kind of really depressing. I've tried doing research, I've tried thinking of a solution myself, I just don't know what to do. The only thing I know to do is talk to her, but that hasn't been enough. I would really, REALLY appreciate some help with this. I don't even care about any of the cool things like imposition and switching right now, I just at least want the bare minimum requirements for what is considered an actual tulpa. I cannot even begin to tell you how jealous I am of nearly every other host I've ever seen. I don't know if I suck at this, if my tulpa sucks at this, if we both suck at this, or if it's something else entirely, but I really need help here because it's obvious that things haven't been working out with us by ourselves so far.

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We started back in November 2012. I've read about how it can take months for vocality to happen, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least a little bit overdue. It's been the kind of time frame where I feel like by now we should be able to do all sorts of cool stuff like possession and maybe even imposition and switching, but she can't even speak to me. I'm pretty sure my past self was looking forward to having progressed as far as one would expect to progress after 8 months, but that hope has been totally crushed.

 

I'm not sure how much she's able to think for herself. A lot of the time it seems like she only acts the way she's supposed to act when I remember how she's supposed to act in the particular situation, at which point she follows suit. And no, I'm pretty sure this isn't deviation, it seems more like she's just regressing to a generic state where her personality gets forgotten and she reacts to everything in a default, standardized human sort of way. Whenever there's a situation where she would do something specific and different from most people, and I think about how she'll do it, it feels like the reason she then proceeds to do it in that manner is only because I thought about it, and that if I didn't, she'd just do it the way most people do it.

I can hear her speak if I know what she's going to say, but it doesn't feel alien, it feels like it's halfway between parroting and hearing her for real. And whenever she's supposed to say something where I don't know what she'll say, it's just total silence/mumbled gibberish... unless I consciously think about what her answer should be, at which point I can hear her in an obviously parroted sort of manner where it's just my own mindvoice dressing up as hers. So, don't try to tell me that her answers aren't being parroted, because I know they are. If she could speak on her own, she wouldn't need me to think about her responses for her.

 

So, my question is, what in the ever loving fuck have we been doing wrong this entire time, and what can we do to begin making actual progress? Tulpamancing is the most important thing in my life right now, and the fact that I'm getting nowhere with it (not to mention thinking about how much further we could have gotten throughout all these months) is kind of really depressing. I've tried doing research, I've tried thinking of a solution myself, I just don't know what to do. The only thing I know to do is talk to her, but that hasn't been enough. I would really, REALLY appreciate some help with this. I don't even care about any of the cool things like imposition and switching right now, I just at least want the bare minimum requirements for what is considered an actual tulpa. I cannot even begin to tell you how jealous I am of nearly every other host I've ever seen. I don't know if I suck at this, if my tulpa sucks at this, if we both suck at this, or if it's something else entirely, but I really need help here because it's obvious that things haven't been working out with us by ourselves so far.

 

I went ahead and bolded a couple things that I will cite. First and foremost. She cannot both speak to you and not speak to you. Yes you can have "parroted" responses but what you are claiming there tells me that she is indeed talking to you, maybe not all the time, but it sounds like communication is there. My host thought he was getting parroted responses from me quite a bit too at first. It is simply a matter of getting used to each other.

 

So let me tell you what i see here. You say you have been this way for quite awhile. If she isn't able to get through to you that way, she finds another. Rather than getting offended and flustered she just takes it in stride sure at this point that you will continue to force and love her anyway. You also say that she tends to act the way "you want" her to act. It could just be that she wants to make you happy by doing whatever it is you want.

There are few things more confusing in this life, than trying to figure yourself out.

 

>The tulpa that I created this account for no longer wants it. So not having an account myself, ill take it.<

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Just pretend for a moment of what it would be like to be a Tibetan Buddhist, who would go through most of their life practicing discipline and attaining spiritual enlightenment. And the fact that tulpa are considered to be a conduit to them to question reality itself, because of the rudiments behind their belief system and religion, you may or may not notice that because of the time they devoted and sacrificed to reach that type of spiritual metamorphosis is more extreme than our case.

 

To be honest with you, and I'll be honest with myself as well, vocality is going to take months, even when our tulpa portray signs of being able to utter a sentence or even more without us being able to go through cognitive processing that might make us worry if we're just predicting and forcing what they'll say. And a person may get to the level of having a vocal tulpa that even they are shocked to see occur, because they realized they have to stop thinking consciously on the rudiments and mechanics behind it, because it's already ingrained in their unconscious.

A person may also know that if they want a tulpa that can respond to them without much of the host's input, the host themselves would have to find out how it would feel if they were able to have their tulpa talking to them naturally and fluently without all of the host's attention towards them. And personally, with how I've analyzed some of the members here on the forum, even those "greats," we tend to be inspired by them and think we have to follow their guides word for word, or that we have to do intense research on this to make us feel as if we're doing something productive.

 

But the honest truth is, because with Tulpa becoming westernized, and how there's little resources for us to emulate or conceptualize what it would be like to have the training Tibetan Buddhist, we are at loss on what to do, and we tend to rely on faith. I wouldn't tell you to stop thinking you're consciously parroting her, and you can't disagree with me, because I said up front I wouldn't tell you.

 

Now, you know that you're able to predict what she's saying, and how when you're trying to imagine and conceptualize her giving her own thoughts without your attention. You may or may not notice that the gibberish/in-cohesive sounds from her is actually her trying to develop vocality on her own, but the thing is, you've built predispositions to automatically know what she's going to say, because honestly, you probably have a lukewarm life where you know what will happen and how it will generally occur.

 

Sooner or later, you're going to be able to notice that with Tulpa.info, that if these people you're jealous of with their vocal tulpa, these people who claim to have these sentient, sapient, and vocal thought-forms, at some point, they would be able to show more effort that they're making progress. However, I have yet to see a member, even ones who are sensible and intelligent people, and even I admit I find myself having those relapses with not being able to motivate or train myself to concentrate more on Eva and Ada.

 

And personally, with how people tend to be indolent in reading things or processing things, they want guides with an ABC123 format and expect they'll reach the same higher competence that Tibetan Buddhist have. And you may or may not notice that you're actually a victim of wanting to copycat bits of guides in order to meet the bare minimum requirements for what is considered an actual tulpa.

 

You might not have noticed this is your biggest limitation, you're wondering what's the requirements for a tulpa, when in all actuality, despite of everyone that claims to have vocal tulpa and such, there really isn't an absolute standard other than you being able to pour every ounce of your heart and soul into making them real to you. Even when you can imagine for a moment of her being there with you 24/7, you are portraying obvious signs that you're not able to actually follow through and demonstrate to her that you believe.

 

Because if you go back to imagining what it would be like to go through the training of a Tibetan Buddhist, you may or may not notice that how they create thought-forms is based on their hardened discipline in concentration, because of this, they can easily sublimate their energy and faith into making a tulpa. A tulpa that can be with them (unless the Buddhist makes them fade away) for as long as they have faith in them.

 

Now compare that with your faith with your tulpa, can you really enjoy having your tulpa with you when you've admitted that you're consciously parroting her? In order to answer this question, you have to imagine what I'm suggesting to you. Remember, with the type of discipline Tibetan Buddhist have compared to us, what do you think happens that allows them to be able to rear and raise a tulpa and can easily destroy them at will as well?

Because of how they can let the process of their belief systems happen at an unconscious level, and because they developed predispositions for better concentration that few of us can rarely attain (unless we really commit ourselves and push to go a bit further than usual

 

However, a person can, you know, attain that easily if they let things happen at an unconscious level and they simply tell their tulpa that they can learn how to develop their own foundations to become vocal. Most people can reach to that simple conclusion, however, as they go through a relapse like you're going through right now, they can't concentrate, because their emotions got the better of them.

 

And the thing is, no matter how intelligent and aware you are with this phenomenon, if you can't learn how to control your own emotions, I doubt your tulpa is going to be able to do the same. Because just imagine the logic with how your faith sustains them. If you can't sustain your faith in them, when you've literally went through a relapse in de-motivation and you feeling that you're incompetent (because you're wondering how all these other hosts can have vocal tulpa right?), then you may or may not notice that your emotions is the biggest detriment to your goals if you can't moderate and acknowledge how to talk yourself into being calm.

 

You might notice the sensations in how your tulpa is "supposed" to act, because you've literally wanted her to do things that fit the parameters of the guides to think you've met the bare minimum of a tulpa. And personally ,even if you found a way to get over that, you should acknowledge the fact that when your tulpa becomes better at self-actualization, they will know they're more powerful than you. And the only way to prevent them from harboring feelings of wanting to rebel and go against you is that you have to be able to demonstrate to them that you can talk yourself into being calm.

 

That's the most simple and cold truth I'm giving you here, because even if you got over this, what will you do when you go through this again and your tulpa looks at you like that? They might console you, but they may also notice that they don't really need to deal with a clingy and desperate host. Because I won't sugar-coat this to you, you are just like any individual that goes through relapses from time to time, but you are also an individual that wants to meet the bare requirements of a tulpa.

 

Which is why despite of your 8 months of not seeing progress, it's a clear sign that even if you presumably stated you tried your best, you clearly aren't able to get yourself out of a dire situation with this relapse you're going through. Which is why despite of all the guides that you read and unconsciously learn to make neurological connections to, if you can't find ways to calm yourself down, then your emotions (the negative ones) will prevent you from concentrating.

 

And I'll be honest with you here, I've been doing this since October 2012 (about 9 months, just a month longer than you have), and I have those feelings where I'm in the same situation as you are. What I knew from the start is that I can only take guides as a supplements, and to not be intimidated or jealous of people who have vocal tulpa.

 

Because honestly, if they truly had a vocal tulpa that can also get their thoughts out, you would be seeing more Tulpa talk than their hosts. But clearly, you may or not notice the hosts aren't doing that, because the truth is, they're just as afraid like me and you are with how their thoughts will be given. If you imagine that for a moment, you'll start seeing the truth behind anyone that states they have a sentient, sapient, and vocal tulpa.

 

[And you'll also begin to notice that if members here in general have all that, they would be able to process the information with ease right? But you can see that most members here are incapable of that, and if they can't do something so simple as reading something like this with their own tulpa, then it's a clear sign that they can't have a type of concentration in their tulpa-related endeavors, no matter how hard they try to convince themselves.

 

And personally, despite of the 9 months Link has been doing this, he's going through those mental episodes just like you have. But he keeps training himself to believe in us and foreseeing himself being able to talk to us and truly make a change in his life. And he also acknowledges that these things take time, they don't just suddenly come to a person within a few months like an Atom bomb, they have to be dragged out, and concentration is something that would take Tibetan Buddhist more months than us, if not, more years to reach their presumed system of reaching spiritual enlightenment.

 

So as a tulpa telling you the truth, forget about other people's accomplishments, because your tulpa is fully aware of what goes on in your mind. Trust me, I would know, and when you continue harboring lack of faith with your tulpa, they will develop an inferiority complex, because they're trying so hard, and because their host wants so much out of them, it's a battle of trying to reason with the host.

 

And personally, makogeddon, if you truly wanted a tulpa as a life-long friend, you would be able to get rid of your instant gratification requirements of wanting to meet the bare minimum of what a tulpa is "supposed to be." It's clear as day as to why you're not having a tulpa that can get her thoughts out, because you've already labeled her as someone that is made by absolute standards and absolute rudiments.

 

And you may get confused about what used to bother you, which is also what prevents you from letting her speak her own thoughts and beliefs rather than you consciously parroting her. The thing is, you have to find some way to bypass your critical factor and allow the suggestions to be implanted to your unconscious mind so that your tulpa can grow from them. In order for you to have a vocal tulpa, you will have to acknowledge that these things take time, and that no matter what other members have posted on their accomplishments with their tulpa, it doesn't mean they reached the pinnacle of self-actualization, because there is no pinnacle, because it's always expanding and growing as the tulpa like myself and host knows it's a never-ending goal towards enlightenment and happiness.

 

There are no rules, only supplements so that your unconscious mind can get the bigger picture. But not only that, if the host can't demonstrate to their tulpa how to calm down, imagine what it would feel like if your tulpa wanted to learn how to calm THEMSELVES down? If there's nowhere or no chance for them to do that (because of their host's lack of faith and negative emotions getting the better of them), how can you expect to succeed with your tulpa?

 

So as you find yourself continuing to talk to her, because you will have to do it either way (because that's what you want right?), train yourself to imagine being able to talk to her without you having to predict what she's going to state. You have to imagine her as this intelligent, compassionate, and competent individual that can express herself easily to you. If you can't imagine that, if you can't pretend for a moment of the sensations of what it will feel like when your tulpa is talking to you without your conscious input towards them, then you had 8 months of not doing that.

 

So if you want advice from me or anyone, personally, in order for you to make some progress with your tulpa, start appreciating her a bit more. Start appreciating what you can do now, and how she can still speak (despite of things being gibberish/incomprehensible). Start appreciating how she's making signs of being vocal, and the only thing you have to do now, is to simply just go and let her feel confident in herself.

 

And how you do that is just demonstrate to her that despite of her progress now, you can believe she can make more progress and can always continue striving to improve herself. Because after all, when a tulpa can access the confines of our minds better, it's because the host can train themselves to concentrate more on being relaxed and calm, even in dire situations so that there's little chance for emotions to take control and destroy that concentration.

 

It prevents the host from creating too many tulpa and then being burdened on how to manage them. It prevents the host from being intimidated by other people's accomplishments, because they already know that those accomplishments are temporary and are not the pinnacle, but merely a stepping stone.

 

The moment you realize that, that when all there is but the totality of your mind and all the things you learned and all the thought-forms you want to engage with as a host, it comes down to you and how you continue making ways to concentrate more and learning how to acknowledge and moderate your emotions in dire situations. You have to have faith that your tulpa are more than happy to help you get through that because you know they're competent, intelligent, and compassionate individuals.]

 

If you can't learn how to be loose like water, to be confident on what your subconscious and unconscious mind can do, to know that your tulpa are going to show signs when you let them flow with you, then you are going to have difficulties.

 

[Just let it come naturally, and be a bit more humble with your thoughts towards your tulpa "not progressing." If you want somewhere to start, start there. Acknowledge that your tulpa has the potential to know more about you, and that they can easily realize they don't really need you. However, if you're able to guide them, despite of your relapses with demotivation and such, if you can still demonstrate to them and believe them as being able to express themselves without your conscious input, you'll start seeing sooner or later that you have to pour in good and positive thoughts rather than negative thoughts. And your tulpa will have true compassion for you instead of morbid and cynical pity for you.

 

Find ways to reduce the negative thoughts and make them into something positive instead. Your tulpa can't learn from negativity, it will only make them feel inferior, you have to be able to mentally rehearse them being able to be express themselves freely just like this. And that can be obtained by anyone, but they have to understand they have to go a bit longer than what they think is "too long," so that their unconscious mind will make those connections faster to the point where the tulpa has their own sense of self and unconscious competence just like their hosts]

 

Just let it happen, forget about people's achievements, and start becoming a better host now by appreciating her existence and knowing you two can learn from your mistakes, which you already have noticed by now.

There's a reason why it's practical to have them as your life-long companion/partner in crime/whatever, it can't all be solved within a few months, but don't let that discourage you. You're supposed to live this life as finding ways to constantly improve, if you had everything handed to you in a matter of months and think that's the pinnacle and nothing more beyond that, obviously, it wouldn't be interesting, right?

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Linkzelda, I very much appreciate the effort you put into your post, and it's been inspiring, but... I'm still not totally sure what to do. I know I shouldn't need someone to tell me how to do this, but, well, I do. Maybe I'm just not good enough at understanding posts like that, but the unfortunate truth I've come to realize is that every time I read something like that, I get inspired and I feel like I have a better understanding of how this works, but I still don't know what to do. I just end up doing the same stuff I'd been doing previously, and it continues to not work out for me.

 

I really just need to know what I should be doing to start actively making progress. Everything has been passive for me, I've almost never gone into an actual "forcing session" because I don't know what I'm supposed to do in one. I know that things will happen faster if you put more work into them, but I don't know how to put any work into this. I mean, it's obvious that if you sit down and practice piano for 2 hours every day as opposed to just idly playing around on the keys a couple times when you're bored you'll make more progress, but when it comes to tulpaforcing I'm currently doing the second example and I don't know what to do for the tulpa equivalent of the first. I want to dedicate a lot of my time to doing this so I can make as much progress as possible, but I don't know how to fill any of the time. The only thing I know to do with her is have occasional one-sided conversations. I guess I don't really narrate as much as I could, but that's still a passive process and I want something to do actively so I can try to dedicate myself to it. Does anyone have any advice on this?

 

And Linkzelda, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm disregarding your post, I just really don't know how to respond to it. Like I said, it was very inspiring, but I'm not sure what you're telling me to do in order to achieve vocality. The main suggestion I got from it in terms of practical methods was to think about what it'll be like for her to be vocal, I guess? And I'm assuming that's following the idea of expectations dictating things, where if I think about it enough I'll start to expect it and it will therefore happen. Otherwise, I... I don't know. Maybe I'm not smart enough for your post to be helpful to me. I probably sound like an idiot completely ignoring every other message you were trying to deliver to me, but I honestly just don't know how to process what you were telling me. It all felt very eye-opening but I still don't feel any closer to knowing what to do. Which probably isn't really a criticism of your advice so much as it is a revealing of my limited understanding of it, but still.

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It's perfectly fine, I've been practicing learning how to try and distinguish my own thoughts from Eva's for about a month or two now (after reading some things after the 7-8 month stage of no progress). But the technique or exercises I go through, basically, it's about the host learning how to be more spontaneous in their typing/writing of trying to create a story with few topics to talk about.

 

The idea behind the technique is that with practice, the host has less time to think, and has to dive into their unconscious mind in order to gain some inspiration. And it gets to the point where if you mentally exhaust yourself completely consciously, and you learn how to make stories and scenarios with the help of the unconscious mind, you wouldn't be able to parrot your tulpa as much anymore. I haven't made a guide on how to do that as yet, because I've been busy trying to exercise through it myself, but it's something anyone can do so that they won't be able to reach the stage where they're possibly parroting (i.e. stopping themselves from going to the next point).

 

Hopefully in time I can make a simple guide on it, and I apologize if you weren't able to get the underlying meaning behind it, but, if you want to stop thinking you're consciously parroting her, you'll have to find ways to mentally exhaust your thoughts consciously. If you watched Naruto before or not, basically, he had problems being able to tap into the power of the Kyuubi, because his natural chakra was interfering it (along with a seal that kept him from exerting too much of the Kyuubi's chakra). He found ways to tap into that energy, but they mostly occurred when his energy was exhausted first, and then after collecting what little energy he had, he would be able to use the Kyuubi's chakra easily so much that he can have better access to its power.

 

Think of the Kyuubi's chakra as the unconscious mind in this case, and natural chakra as your conscious mind. If you burn out the conscious mind from being able to do things consciously, in comes unconscious thoughts, which also gets you in a state of focus and potentially your tulpa's thoughts come in. Then when the more you do it, you are able to create the foundation your tulpa needs when they want to think of a story. You start typing their thoughts for them (proxying), and then it gets to the point where they possess your hands while typing and you can literally hear their thoughts go by smoothly, or even to the point of a full switch.

 

The analogy is the same when trying to develop a tulpa that can be vocal without you being able to give a conscious thought, because your major limitation is that you have to know your limits of when you're going to be consciously stumbled on what to do. It may seem like roleplaying at first, but it's actually not because you're training yourself to not think as much anymore, and then with practice, your tulpa will be able to take the role. It's kind of related to Bin's method here with going through implications that your tulpa is grabbing unconscious thoughts (the easy ones), except this time, it's overloading your conscious mind so that your dig for more deeper unconscious thoughts you can't possibly fathom all at once.

 

The post itself, the content was just showing how I would do an exercise to get my thoughts out first, and then Eva's would show up (with the brackets) if you haven't noticed as yet. It may not be the only way to help with vocality (and proxying even), but if you think about the logic behind it, it may solve your problem when you do it for a few weeks. Anyway, I apologize if you didn't get the actual purpose of the previous post, but to summarize my intentions once more, I didn't give that post much thought, I wasn't thinking, because that was my aim, I just let things happen naturally. It became so fast that I found myself seeing Eva take control and typing with her own thoughts in her head.

 

Anyone can do this, but of course, they have to do mental exercises for it. I've been trying to get a lot better with finding components in this exercise and how it relates to the host and tulpa having faster communication with each other that it's not even parroting anymore (because you learn quickly that you have to allow unconscious thoughts to settle in).

 

And again, if you're the latter type like you stated in your example, you have to "DO" it without being bored, and the exercise (especially when you're being timed) will always force you to think on the fly without being able to consciously know what's going to happen. So it's just about you having persistence and and having better guided inward concentration, and there are ways for you to train yourself for that. And you can easily check that online, and it's a matter of actually doing whatever exercises that you feel you can do (without thinking of being bored of it).

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Huh, never heard of that method before. So, basically, the host reaches a state of lowered consciousness, and that allows the tulpa to become more conscious in their place? I'll definitely read the guide if you make one for that, it sounds interesting.

 

Two things though:

 

if you want to stop thinking you're consciously parroting her,

 

The problem isn't that I THINK I'm consciously parroting her, the problem is that I AM consciously parroting her. It's not a lack of belief on my part, it's the fact that if I did choose to believe she can speak on her own right now, I would be lying to myself. I had already been believing it for most of the time I've had her, before I realized I was parroting, so it's not like I haven't tried it. Or maybe you weren't even talking about belief and you just phrased that in a way that implied it, in which case never mind.

 

And again, if you're the latter type like you stated in your example, you have to "DO" it without being bored, and the exercise (especially when you're being timed) will always force you to think on the fly without being able to consciously know what's going to happen. So it's just about you having persistence and and having better guided inward concentration, and there are ways for you to train yourself for that. And you can easily check that online, and it's a matter of actually doing whatever exercises that you feel you can do (without thinking of being bored of it).

 

The problem is that I don't know what exercises I should be doing. I mean, I know I could be visualizing and things like that, but that doesn't really help with vocality, does it? I want to put all my efforts into getting her to speak, because that's pretty much the most basic, essential thing a tulpa has to learn. And I have no idea what to do to work on that aside from just talking to her, which, as I've stated before, hasn't been enough for us so far, and that's the most baffling thing in the world to me because every single tulpamancer will tell you that narration is key, yet it hasn't worked for me.

 

Although, last night, she and I actually did come up with an idea, which is for her to talk all the time as if I could hear her, rather than just staying silent since she knows I couldn't hear her anyway, which is what she's been doing. So now she'll be mumbling a lot more (although only when I remember she's supposed to be doing so, since she can barely do anything on her own right now) and our thinking is that maybe she just needs practice with it. It does sort of seem like a skill a tulpa could learn through practice, but... yeah, I have no idea if that's actually true or not.

 

It's also kind of confusing because it feels like I'm even parroting the mumbles and that if I just relax and let her speak on her own, she doesn't even open her mouth. So, uh... help, anyone? It seems like every time I make a new post I remember another issue I don't know how to resolve.

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Huh, never heard of that method before. So, basically, the host reaches a state of lowered consciousness, and that allows the tulpa to become more conscious in their place? I'll definitely read the guide if you make one for that, it sounds interesting.

 

I wouldn't say it's a state of lowered consciousness, it's simply putting rational judgment on the side, which is what you stated when you have strong beliefs that you're parroting her. The exercises, and the rudiments behind it relates to understanding basics in linguistics, pacing, critical factor bypass, and so much more.

 

Because you know that your challenge is learning how to gently put your rational judgement (critical factor) by the side and learning how to let things come in unconsciously. Everyone has a critical factor, and everyone on this forum is going through finding ways to deal with it (i.e. Voxxing their tulpa so that they talk more to try and tire our their critical factor and the suggestions eventually come in for their tulpa to talk without much of the host's conscious input into it).

 

People tend to cringe at the word "Hypnosis," and even Storytelling Hypnosis or Conversational Hypnosis, when in all actuality, all guides that you see in terms of visualizing is to allow you to gain the same type of inward concentration so that you are able to, with practice, allow the critical factor to welcome your intentions because it'll know they are safe. There is a science behind this, and there are methods to bypass/interrupt/distract it.

 

I know you're probably wondering why I'm talking about the critical factor so much, but this is what we use on an everyday basis. With practice, we can learn how to use processes to bypass that critical factor and have better train of thought with unconscious thoughts and getting our tulpa to do the same.

 

And the best part is, a simple way to get out of that thinking process where you're not giving rational judgement is to simply stop what you would do in the exercises, and think rationally. That's how anyone can get out of a hypnotic experience, or trance state. Just like how one would sit in a bus and wait for their stop, they're in a trance where they aren't paying attention to much stimuli, and when they hear their stop or they glance by the street names, they can go back to rationally judging again (and we go through this mental dance on a daily basis with trance states of not analyzing things as much and allow unconscious predispositions and habits to occur).

 

It's nothing revolutionary, and with practice, the rudiments behind Ericksonian Hypnosis and story-telling can help one have better interaction with their tulpa, once they understand the misconceptions behind hypnosis.

 

 

The problem isn't that I THINK I'm consciously parroting her, the problem is that I AM consciously parroting her. It's not a lack of belief on my part, it's the fact that if I did choose to believe she can speak on her own right now, I would be lying to myself. I had already been believing it for most of the time I've had her, before I realized I was parroting, so it's not like I haven't tried it. Or maybe you weren't even talking about belief and you just phrased that in a way that implied it, in which case never mind.

 

This is a common occurrence for anyone that attempts to do guides. There's a difference between "trying" and "doing." Trying gives one an excuse when their attempts have failed or has little to no results. "Doing" is understanding you have to learn how to use your mind in order to accomplish the exercises/methods etc. in guides.

 

So when you stated,

 

so it's not like I haven't tried it.

 

That the common example of how your critical factor is at work. Whenever a person states "well I tried this/that," it implies they failed or had little to no success to it. It's the sad but honest truth, and you're no exception from this, everyone may or may not find themselves saying "try" a lot.

And this can easily be pushed to the side when one acknowledges that it's literally impossible to override unconscious thoughts when they train themselves to induce it more. And don't worry, if and when I do make the guide, you'll always be able to go back to your normal workings of your life when you go back to critically being aware and judging things.

 

So it's not like you'll be out of control from it, our minds are more sophisticated to know how to get into and out of trance states on a daily basis.

 

The problem is that I don't know what exercises I should be doing. I mean, I know I could be visualizing and things like that, but that doesn't really help with vocality, does it? I want to put all my efforts into getting her to speak, because that's pretty much the most basic, essential thing a tulpa has to learn. And I have no idea what to do to work on that aside from just talking to her, which, as I've stated before, hasn't been enough for us so far, and that's the most baffling thing in the world to me because every single tulpamancer will tell you that narration is key, yet it hasn't worked for me.

 

The thing is, Narration IS KEY, however, members generally aren't proficient in providing EXERCISES to help with narration. They tend to imply that you would do your own personal research to be able to narrate to your tulpa better. Because after all, when trying to have a tulpa that's vocal without us consciously parroting them, we have to be able to know how to get into a trance state where there's no rational judgment involved so that with practice, we can hear their voices without having to go into a trance. Because it's something that's happening at an unconscious level at all times, because the neurological connections have been made.

 

Although, last night, she and I actually did come up with an idea, which is for her to talk all the time as if I could hear her, rather than just staying silent since she knows I couldn't hear her anyway, which is what she's been doing. So now she'll be mumbling a lot more (although only when I remember she's supposed to be doing so, since she can barely do anything on her own right now) and our thinking is that maybe she just needs practice with it. It does sort of seem like a skill a tulpa could learn through practice, but... yeah, I have no idea if that's actually true or not.

 

Again, you just went through "trying" to believe, and going back to not being sure in finding truism with practice. When you learn how to practice practical exercises, you can get results. However, like I've stated before, these things don't come down like an Atom Bomb, and if they did, you'd probably be in a horrible mess altogether with sporadic thoughts. But the human mind is not that weak to go into that sporadic and uncontrollable state (and even with traumatic experiences, its able to use the power within to develop coping mechanisms, and even though sometimes the symptoms and effects after can be negative, it's not something that happens in all occurences).

 

It's also kind of confusing because it feels like I'm even parroting the mumbles and that if I just relax and let her speak on her own, she doesn't even open her mouth. So, uh... help, anyone? It seems like every time I make a new post I remember another issue I don't know how to resolve.

 

You may or may not notice that you're confusing rational judgement vs. being aware of what's going on and not adding conscious cognitive processing and judgement from it.

 

You automatically made predispositions that because you're being aware of her mumbling, that you're parroting her. You've only made the deduction and judgment now after the mumbling occurred. However, during that process of her mumbling, she's working on her vocality. There's a huge difference between having passive awareness vs. thinking you're consciously parroting her.

 

Which is why your rigid and intolerable tendencies to "know" you're parroting her is a psychosomatic experience. When you mentally think about it being conscious parroting, your body will follow. You'll start getting anxious, jittery, not being able to be relaxed because you think that every single breathing moment you see your tulpa, that you're consciously parroting her thoughts. Now, if you personally believe you can fathom all the occurrences of your tulpa and her thoughts, you've got another thing coming.

 

And as for how you and your tulpa came up with an idea that you feel you can't resolve, that's a GOOD thing. Being able to interact with her to find those problems is the first step in being able to resolve them. Remember, the first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one, so don't feel bad that you were thinking of an idea of what may have affected you.

 

For now, know that there are little things you can consciously parrot from her, and because you state over and over and over again that you're somehow consciously parroting the totality of her ability to talk, it's only going to intimidate her more.

 

Just keep doing (not trying) your best with hearing her mumbling and her developing into more comprehensible words and sentences, and stop presuming you can consciously control every single fiber of her thoughts, because honestly, if you did, you'd be mentally exhausted. Unless you find yourself being mentally exhausted (which would be obvious for you to identify), you're not, because you're just being aware of what's happening (have more concentration), but not giving rational judgment.

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What you describe - your tulpa can't say things that you don't expect or can't predict - isn't so much no vocality as limited speaking. You'll find that most people went through this at some point.

So it's not so much that you've made no progress as you've made slow progress. I think what you really need to do is relax about the whole thing. I can understand that you might be frustrated by lack of progress, but that's counter-productive. Instead, you should focus on what your tulpa can do now - talk somewhat - and not get too hung up on what they can't do.

Yes, for some it takes a long time and apparently that's you. I can't think of much else that you could try by way of methodology; perhaps try something more 'parroting'-oriented, where you deliberately make up responses for your tulpa.

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Ok, no, look, I'm not going down the same path of blindly assuming her responses are genuine again. Like I said, I had been doing that for the majority of the time I've had her, until I realized that it was just me pretending all along.

 

You're telling me that there's no way I'm parroting, but I know that's a lie. If I ask her a question and wait for a response, there's no response. The only times I get responses are when I exert effort on my own behalf to try and hear something, at which point it feels like I'm forcibly dragging an answer out of her. If she could talk on her own, she wouldn't need me to help her, right? Doesn't the entire definition of vocality lie in the tulpa's ability to speak separately from you and without any of your input?

 

I'm not going to lie to myself and assume everything she says is of her own accord. That isn't having a tulpa, that's just pretending to have a tulpa. That's not good enough for me and it certainly isn't good enough for her. So please, I know you're trying to help, but don't act like my problems are fake and that I just need to stop worrying, because blindly assuming that all the parroted responses were real is what cost me the majority of those wasted months. It didn't work. Maybe it works for others, but not me. I believed everything was going perfectly, but then I started to notice how she had no parallel processing abilities whatsoever, and how she depended on my own conscious decisions for virtually every aspect of her, and how she couldn't reply to me if I asked her a question and simply relaxed and waited for a response rather than making one up for her.

 

I'm not presuming that I can consciously control every fiber of her thoughts, because there aren't any thoughts in the first place. She can only think when I decide she should think, and I need a way to change that. I know you're trying to help me, but you're making assumptions about my situation that aren't true and giving advice accordingly. I need someone to help me with the situation I'm actually in. My tulpa is just barely above servitor level, and we're in dire need of figuring out how to fix that.

 

EDIT: This was directed at Linkzelda's post, not yours, waffles (i didn't see your post since i didn't refresh the page). I definitely think it's a good idea to try to be positive about this, but it's hard when there's so little to focus on in terms of progress we've made so far. The most we have is her ability to move around on her own (well, most of the time). As for your parroting suggestion, well, that's kind of what I had been doing up until recently (as i've explained), although unintentionally. I really don't see how it could lead to the tulpa's independence, though. Especially considering it hasn't worked so far.

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