Jump to content

8 months in, no vocality


Recommended Posts

Alright, Oguigi wasn't there tonight but I talked to plenty of other people (almost all of whom told me to just accept all responses as genuine) and I think I have some better perspective now.

 

I want to clear something up, because I know I must sound like the most stubborn skeptic on the entire forums/IRC: My ability to believe in my tulpa is not in need of any help. I can very easily and readily accept responses and believe them to be genuine, if I think that doing so is wise. I'm not being weighed down by any sort of subconscious doubts; I'd say I'm luckier than many other people in that rather than attempting to consciously accept something and being plagued by an unconscious doubt, I'm the other way around. I'm very much ready and able to believe in my tulpa, but I've chosen not to because I don't want to risk it.

 

Yes, I'm parrotnoid. But I don't think I'm unjustified in being so. Blind faith hasn't worked for me so far, and I see no reason that it should start to work if I keep it up. Maybe I'm slow, maybe I didn't interact with her enough, but continuing down that path just strikes me as personally wrong for me. And don't think I'm choosing this out of preference; it is way more fun interacting with a possibly parroted tulpa than an almost totally silent one (no offense, Sarah). I'm only doing it because it just makes more sense to me, and I don't want to risk another 8 months of almost no progress whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying the blind faith option is nonviable. I mean, maybe it's nonviable, I don't know; but if it does work, it's probably worked a lot better for other people than it has for me. I don't know why. Maybe I've just been lazy; like I mentioned somewhere in one of those walls of text, I've never had a single active forcing session aside from occasional wonderland stuff (and talking to her while going to sleep, i guess). But as I said, it's not worth the risk of trying it again (not yet, at least; if i end up spending another 8 months with no progress while using this other method, it might be smart to reconsider).

 

The thing that really confuses me is that both methods seem viable, yet are in direct contradiction with eachother. Oh, and when I say "both methods seem viable", I should put a disclaimer that I have no goddamned fucking clue if they're both actually viable or not. For all I know, one of them could be completely wrong, but I have literally no way of deducing that because this community is so largely biased towards the blind acceptance method that the other one barely gets any coverage. I have absolutely nothing against you people, you're generally very kind and willing to help, but I wish you weren't so vehement in your willingness to dismiss anything that harbors even the tiniest shred of skepticism. Science isn't about sticking to one view and ignoring any opposition, it's about considering all possible theories and attempting to find out which ones hold up.

 

So that's my justification for the stance I'm taking here. I'm going to work on being able to hear the responses that I consider to be genuine (i know what they feel like, and they're at least different enough from the ones i consider to be parroting for me to deduce that they're really her). However, I understand that belief and expectations are important, so I'm going to try and roll with certain things and assume things are her while still being sure not to parrot.

 

If anyone has any reason to believe that what I'm doing isn't the smartest option, please let me know, because I still honestly have very little idea what I'm doing here. I'm just trying to explain my case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 36
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The other way around sounds like it feels even worse...

 

Don't be afraid at all to parrot. What really clicked for me was:

Fake response, dismissed as parroting: Nothing happens

Real response, dismissed as parroting: Pissed off tulpa, negative effect

Fake response, accepted: Annoyed tulpa, neutral or positive effect

Real response, accepted: :D

 

And by the way, there aren't "two methods." Having a tulpa is a personal experience; nobody else can have an absolute say on what you should do. That applies to me as well. It all comes down to your choice.

 

Plus, tulpaforcing is still pretty young. Older, stricter methods such as FAQMan's are outdated and newer methods are theoretical without much proof.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other way around sounds like it feels even worse...

 

Don't be afraid at all to parrot. What really clicked for me was:

Fake response, dismissed as parroting: Nothing happens

Real response, dismissed as parroting: Pissed off tulpa, negative effect

Fake response, accepted: Annoyed tulpa, neutral or positive effect

Real response, accepted: :D

 

And by the way, there aren't "two methods." Having a tulpa is a personal experience; nobody else can have an absolute say on what you should do. That applies to me as well. It all comes down to your choice.

 

Plus, tulpaforcing is still pretty young. Older, stricter methods such as FAQMan's are outdated and newer methods are theoretical without much proof.

 

When I say "two methods", I'm referring to two conflicting fundamental ideas concerning tulpa creation in this community, which are "don't worry about parroting" vs. "don't parrot". And believe me, I've read the things trying to justify the first idea, but those justifications rely on said idea being a viable method. Who's to say that accepting fake responses ISN'T harmful to development?

 

See, the idea of believing in your tulpa and waiting for those beliefs to become a reality if they weren't already does make sense to me, but it also makes sense to me that doing so could lead you to falsely assuming your tulpa is vocal despite the fact that you haven't actually made any progress, which is what happened to me. And when I say it's what happened to me, I mean it; I thought her vocality was perfect since the very beginning, and it never actually changed or improved throughout all those months. So, either she was perfectly fluent since the very beginning (something i find a little bit difficult to believe), or she was never fluent at all. Like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe that the method can work, I'm just saying that it didn't work for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

When I say "two methods", I'm referring to two conflicting fundamental ideas concerning tulpa creation in this community, which are "don't worry about parroting" vs. "don't parrot". And believe me, I've read the things trying to justify the first idea, but those justifications rely on said idea being a viable method. Who's to say that accepting fake responses ISN'T harmful to development?

 

See, the idea of believing in your tulpa and waiting for those beliefs to become a reality if they weren't already does make sense to me, but it also makes sense to me that doing so could lead you to falsely assuming your tulpa is vocal despite the fact that you haven't actually made any progress, which is what happened to me. And when I say it's what happened to me, I mean it; I thought her vocality was perfect since the very beginning, and it never actually changed or improved throughout all those months. So, either she was perfectly fluent since the very beginning (something i find a little bit difficult to believe), or she was never fluent at all. Like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe that the method can work, I'm just saying that it didn't work for me.

 

Treating them as sentient also means you have to demonstrate to them that you're wanting to help them develop as well. It doesn't mean you wait for them to just pop in and say, "Haaay, how you doing?"

 

And what you're following is not really a method, it's just a belief. A belief is not a method, just a mental construct that primes you to work towards what you want (a vocal tulpa). It's supposed to give the host the assurance that their tulpa can be competent in sensory awareness and all that entails with the definitions of sentience, but that in no way means you just wait for things to happen and it doesn't mean your tulpa is so perfect that they don't need change, you're supposed to lead yourself through practice and devotion. Go first in the imagination, the belief, practice, and your tulpa will follow.

 

And I feel that when people think of "assume sentience from the start," they probably think their tulpa is supposed to be over-powered and a mary-sue with little to no effort from the host, because with what you're saying (please enlighten me if I'm wrong), all you were focused on was a skewed perception of the assuming sentience from the start as "waiting for things to happen."

 

The reason why no method doesn't seem to work for you is because you're still stuck on fundamental beliefs and assume they have to be embraced to absolute law, that's the conflict here. Because you're continually expressing "Oh this belief says this while this belief says that, too confusing for me!"

 

Which is why you should know the fundamentals are bound to change and can potentially become outdated, which is why they should be a supplement, not absolute law. Don't be stuck with the tendency to follow things as textbook definitions, when you practice through repetition, you're bound to succeed. If you're practicing believing in things to absolute law without any actually "doing," you're bound to fail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you definitely have a point with me being stuck on fundamental beliefs. Right now I feel like I'm just not going anywhere whatsoever because I'm too afraid to try something in case it doesn't end up working. Because really, how can I know if a method will work or not? They're all basically unfalsifiable hypotheses, and although there are always people claiming a certain method has worked for them, there are also people claiming that the same method HASN'T worked for them.

 

Seriously, I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm at a point where I don't believe ANY method actually works. I don't know what happened that stopped us from making any progress for those 8 months, but the realization that things weren't working has made me paranoid that NOTHING will work.

 

... With that said, I forgot to mention something: Last night when I went to turn off the lamp to go to sleep, she said "love you!" the way couples do when they say goodnight to each other. Completely unexpected and out of nowhere; I wasn't thinking about her speaking at all, wasn't expecting her to say anything, wasn't trying to make her say anything... I have no reason to believe it was anything other than a genuine response. And obviously it felt a lot different from the responses that I consider to be parroting; I have to actually work to hear the parroted responses, and this was something completely beyond my control. I have nothing to depend on other than her own will for me to hear something like that.

 

So, even though I'm not 100% sure this method is going to work, I'm going to keep using it. I just have to give her as much attention as possible and hope that she decides to say something while I wait in silence. I have no idea why she would want to be as quiet as she is if she has the ability to talk like that, but whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I'm in the same boat. 9 months and.. No vocality? I do believe I heard some legit comments from my tulpa, but I just haven't placed much importance on them. I'm a lazy ass bastard so I "can't" even find time to properly force, and I'm too distracted and engaged in playing video games half the time to even remember about my tulpa. Every evening I'm like, tomorrow I'm gonna remember to narrate all the time and force properly.. And then I just think, meh, maybe some miracle will happen and I will get a vocal tulpa. God I hate myself sometimes. Thanks for taking the time to write those walls of text Linkzelda, they helped me figure out quite a few things... but I'll need to stop being lazy before I can actually use them and sadly no one except myself can help me do that. Anyways, good luck on your journey makogeddon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All it takes is to do it, man, I know you can get there. Lazy is a tough beast to defeat but in the end what's best is to choose to do it today, not tomorrow, because if 'tomorrow' didn't come before, it's probably not going to come this time you say it. Next time you think about forcing, just go ahead and do it! You'll get back into the saddle and when you're there you won't want to be lazy again. The experience is worth it. I think it's easy to forget how much they mean to us if we aren't spending time with them.

 

And glad to hear makogeddon getting a response!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I'm in the same boat. 9 months and.. No vocality? I do believe I heard some legit comments from my tulpa, but I just haven't placed much importance on them. I'm a lazy ass bastard so I "can't" even find time to properly force, and I'm too distracted and engaged in playing video games half the time to even remember about my tulpa. Every evening I'm like, tomorrow I'm gonna remember to narrate all the time and force properly.. And then I just think, meh, maybe some miracle will happen and I will get a vocal tulpa. God I hate myself sometimes. Thanks for taking the time to write those walls of text Linkzelda, they helped me figure out quite a few things... but I'll need to stop being lazy before I can actually use them and sadly no one except myself can help me do that. Anyways, good luck on your journey makogeddon.

 

Yeah, we're in the same boat when it comes to laziness too. Right now virtually 100% of my time is free time but I somehow still can't get anything done, tulpaforcing included.

 

Although, in my defense, that's partly because I still have no idea what I should be doing during an active session. Every time I try to have one, all I can really do is try to have a conversation which doesn't go anywhere since I can't hear her end of it. Lasts about 2 minutes before I go back to wasting time.

 

I know I could be going to the wonderland with her though, so I guess I should probably try that. But my visualization in the wonderland has deteriorated to the point where it's pretty much impossible to actually impose myself there, so it's extremely annoying to just be there. I guess I'll just have to keep trying until it gets better. The worst thing is the fact that every time I actually do want to try going to the wonderland, it's when I'm tired enough to fall asleep in the process of attempting it.

 

But yeah, forgetting to do things or commit to things. One night I'll say to Sarah that tomorrow I'm going to spend the entire day passively focusing on her, never forgetting that she's there, and then I end up only remembering she's there during occasional moments throughout the day like almost every other day.

 

God, I have the absolute worst discipline, dedication, and time management skills out of anyone I've ever seen. I have plenty of reasons for still trying to force her into existence, but if the end result wasn't as amazing as it will be to have a friend like this (as well as the fact that i would never think about getting rid of her even at this stage), I doubt I would have kept this up all this time. Hell, I've attempted to learn lucid dreaming on two separate occasions and given up both times out of laziness. Lucid dreaming. Because being able to indulge in every possible activity I could ever imagine with the power of my own will every time I went to sleep apparently still wasn't enticing enough to make me expend the laughably small amount of effort necessary to make it possible.

 

I really wish I knew a way to fix this aspect of me. It's like I just don't care enough about any of the awesome things I could be doing to actually do them. It makes no sense. It's like having an awesome video game that you'd love to play and then never actually playing it (which is also something that happens to me with alarming frequency). I mean, fuck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That laziness happens to a lot more people than you think.

 

Yes, in the degree that you explained. It's not like everyone would be willing to tell you the worst aspect of themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...