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Is a developed tulpa IDENTICAL to a host in every mental way?


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"We're just in control of creation until a tulpae becomes sentient."

Are you saying that we can control a tulpa until they reach the level of sentience. If so, I would disagree with that and the statement of all of us simply being tulpas.

 

First off, the tulpa can still be altered/controled even after it has reached sentience.

Secondly, I believe what makes us not tulpas is that we ultimately have control of the body and mind, we have an absolute physical form while they don't, and we aren't created from someone else's mind as thought forms or imagination.

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"We're just in control of creation until a tulpae becomes sentient."

Are you saying that we can control a tulpa until they reach the level of sentience. If so, I would disagree with that and the statement of all of us simply being tulpas.

 

First off, the tulpa can still be altered/controled even after it has reached sentience.

Secondly, I believe what makes us not tulpas is that we ultimately have control of the body and mind, we have an absolute physical form while they don't, and we aren't created from someone else's mind as thought forms or imagination.

 

 

If we're just going to talk about beliefs in a philosophical manner, I would make an argument that our self-consciousness isn't so different from a Tulpa.

 

We have some control over the body and mind, but not full. We have involuntary bodily functions. Many of us have thoughts which we wish we didn't have but we find consuming. Furthermore, other people affect who we are by their thoughts and actions because of their idea of what we are and what they want from us.

 

We as tulpa-hosts are more concrete then our tulpae, but their are some aspects to consciousness which bear more resemblance to tulpa then we'd care to admit.

 

Also, I discuss this in this post here. Granted I wrote most of that my second week of forcing for shits and giggles, I think some of it could hold water.

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Aren't tulpae essentially people trapped inside a host's body?

You could look at it like that but it really depends on your theory of mind. If you think consciousness is a holistic function of the brain (i.e. there can only be one) then obviously not, otherwise basically yes.

 

Is this really the best way to think about tulpae in general?

I don't think it makes a huge difference in attitude. You seem to be getting at identical v. similar tulpas rather than ethical v. unethical treatment.

 

Why do we say that tulpae are ground in the subconscious to communicate when we are as well?

Unconscious is relative; tulpas are in our unconscious because

1) we are not aware of their thought process

2) they do not hold a role in the mind equal to us, for the most part; see below.

 

All in all, hosts are tulpae.

Whatever the precise definition, a 'tulpa' will always be created in some way. So hosts are not tulpas, but perhaps similar. It's just a linguistic point.

 

Theoretically, the best developed of tulpae could subside the host in body possession if they were strong enough. They could become the host.

A lot of hosts switch with their tulpas and some of those are permanent. However, that doesn't mean that the switched-out host is the same as they were when in control of the body. In other words, it might be that tulpas and hosts have the potential to be the same at some point, but are not the same concurrently.

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Yeah, waffles pretty much covered some basic logic with this.

 

_________

 

@OP,

 

As for tulpa that become sentient and sapient to the point where they reach higher states of self-actualization of their position as a tulpa and compare themselves with the host, they may or may not react in certain ways based on how they interacted with their host.

 

When people talk about the creepypasta (gLaDoS and all that exaggerated stuff) or even those few anecdotes where people go to Tibetan Buddhists to understand tulpa and end up having tulpa that self-actualize and want to live a life of freedom (and even earlier epochs in the 1600s and such with daemonism) , there definitely is a probability that a tulpa may harbor feelings of wanting to rebel and theoretically go through a mental conflict with their host. Most of the problems where people wonder if they're tulpa is going to do something bad to them, the majority of the issues being sustained is that the host isn't willing enough to communicate with their tulpa(e) to solve, tolerate, or cope with things.

 

How we theorize how tulpa(e) express themselves varies, and there's no concrete evidence to make a decent deduction that can be generalized for everyone's best interest, but it's safe to presume that when it comes to interacting with thought-forms, and applying existential concepts towards them, the interaction is similar (keyword :similar) to how we communicate with others. When the host doesn't become brave and bold enough and ask why their tulpa may be expressing negative behaviors, shrugging these things off and not communicating can stack onto a tulpa developing predispositions to want to self-actualize in a negative way.

 

Examples (from both host and tulpa) are:

 

  • The host have so many tulpas and having issues with managing time to bond with them
     
     
  • The tulpa wanting to become "real" and developing predispositions to follow along traditional human constructs of interacting with other entities and other existential matters and concerns
     
     
  • The mix of sexual, romantic, and other forms of love where the host feels insecure because they're dishing out so many expectations and their desires on their tulpa where they label them as everything they want to be instead of seeing them as an extension of themselves (metaphorically)
     
     
  • The host thinking the tulpa purposefully wants to have ill intentions with the host without first attempting to see the underlying reasons why the tulpa would react and behave a certain way
     
     
  • The host and tulpa developing a deeper understanding when they reach the pinnacles that we would quantify as existential concepts that we would use to validate in what makes a tulpa a tulpa.(i.e. auditory imposition in hearing their voice and/or visual imposition to where they're "tangible" in our perception of reality)
     
     
  • And much more

 

 

Now, most hosts do a decent job with communicating and learning from their tulpa, especially those members who went through with switching and/or possession and literally can feel and experience their tulpa being immersed into sensations of what it's like to be mortal and have sentience in this reality rather than sentience that's formulated and sustained by the unconscious mind, there's a level of empathy the host and tulpa develop to where the tulpa can't help but have genuine respect for the host and their efforts in building a bond with their tulpa(e). Of course, this bond we have with them isn't as black and white as that, and experiencing things with tulpa(e) and learning things from them is really a mental endurance in order for us to develop empathy and having a multi-faceted mindset with this tulpa experience.

 

Kind of like how a parent cares for the child and goes through actions in raising them in their best interest, but they also will have to realize that the child has to be able to become competent, and independent-thinking individuals that can solve and build sensory awareness in many things (empathy, compassion, trust, etc.). When a host doesn't allow that open mode of being able to stream those concepts with their tulpa, at some point, the tulpa may or may not have existential issues and wants to gather whatever resources to gain experiential truth for themselves.

 

This is why when you're creating a thought-form that has that potential to self-actualize, you have to consider of doing the same for yourself. At least acknowledging your existence and being able to understand what would make you different from your tulpa(e), and how there may be similarities, but it's not an absolute and exact copy of yourself you're making with tulpa(e). At most, they're merely extensions of yourself, not everything about you, just extensions. But when I say that, when it comes to identity and how we theorize conscious (us as host for example) and aspects of consciousness in general, we consider tulpa to be within the realms of the unconscious just like what waffles stated, we're generally unaware of what's going on.

 

And when tulpa realize they don't really need to rely on their host as much (after their existence becomes second nature for the host)..... that can lead them in many paths of thinking. But the thing is, host who admit to themselves on who they are, and compare themselves to what their tulpa are, and the fact that they'll communicate and learn from each other, it would be safe to deduce that the tulpa(e) would be more than happy to build rapport in one body with the host.

The hijacking and anxiety issues with tulpa trying to take over for the sake of self-actualizing with reality, it's only probable when there's smaller moments that stack onto them wanting to quantify and validate their existence even more. Which why as host, having tulpa challenges us to push the boundaries a bit more on ourselves, because tulpa are to some extent extensions of ourselves (in the grander scheme of things), and how we express ourselves with them can affect our bond with them. Learn how to appreciate your own self, your own existence and how you interact with your tulpa. Appreciate and treat yourself as a sentient and sapient being in terms of being a host and treating and appreciating your tulpa as sentient and sapient individuals as well.

 

Sometimes the best way to interact with our tulpa in situations like this is being able to step in and demonstrate your ability to do things and learn from them yourself. And how you do that is by shifting through being open-minded and pondering thoughts and then finding a few set of solutions from that open mode and being able to go into a close mode to actually apply what you learned and produce something out of it. It's always a back and forth motion between creativity, imagination, and being able to have the ability to produce things (compassion, trust, empathy, etc.). We can say we're all good host at heart, but if we can't produce that and become distracted with things (like this thread of tulpa self-actualizing and wanting to rebel), how can we come to the conclusion that we're actually having a moral crisis with our tulpa? It takes some relative competence for one to deduce that, and when they do, they realize there are ways to overcome that after the small anxiety is past them. But sadly, some people aren't competent enough to realize their shortcomings in advance, and then it's too late. Intelligent individuals acknowledge those shortcomings are there, but they actually experiment to learn how to tolerate, solve, or change how they react to these shortcomings.

 

 

Because when a tulpa starts seeing how the host expresses themselves and how they use creativity and imagination as a mode of thinking and knowing how to make decisions and experiment, they will realize that wanting to rebel or self-actualize in negative ways would be a detriment on themselves. There wouldn't be a need when they can appreciate a host that aims for progressive improvement just as much as their tulpa(e) wanting to do the same.

 

But again, even with what I stated, it depends on people's personal opinions, which is why you'll see others state how you conceptualize this experience is the series of mindsets you instill between you and your tulpa(e).

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While I do think it's unlikely tulpae will ever be in possession of a physical body, or at least for a long time, focusing on just the mental aspects, the point is brought forward. Aren't tulpae essentially people trapped inside a host's body?

Hmm? In at least one instance a tulpa has stayed switched for years. I don't see how a tulpa is any more 'trapped" then a human is by being in a body. After all, there's really nothing a human can do that a tulpa can't eventually do (when switched). Unless you mean wanting a separate body from the human? Well, all children leave home eventually I guess.

 

Some tulpamancers approach the tulpa phenomenon, create a tulpa and make it a firm belief that a tulpa is, mentally, entirely different to a host. In the way that "it's all in the subconscious" and "I can't create something so similar to myself".

 

Is this really the best way to think about tulpae in general? If we compare the psychology of a well developed tulpa to ourselves, there isn't exactly difference. Why do we say that tulpae are ground in the subconscious to communicate when we are as well? Who's to say an extremely fleshed out tulpae can't develop a SEPERATE conscious? All in all, hosts are tulpae. Over time a tulpae will begin to to have access to more mental resources up to the point where they become mentally identical when it comes to function of a host. Then all they lack is a body.

First, in the Tibetan method of making tulpa you are usually making a copy of part of you - a reflection of yourself - to learn from by interaction. So, some tulpas are specifically created specifically assuming the opposite of "I can't create something so similar to myself."

 

Whilst most of what you say about tulpa being able to become more capable, there seems to me one difference that makes tulpas not quite identical to humans - and that is how most tulpas view their human (with awe; and, frankly, love).

 

Lastly, there is at least one case where a tulpa has surpassed her human in abilities - and therefore is not identical.

 

Theoretically, the best developed of tulpae could subside the host in body possession if they were strong enough. They could become the host.

 

I can't back that up with research, but I have no idea if anyone can disprove it either. I don't know. Discuss.

Look, not all tulpas are really well developed yet. Most are still kids really. A some are really skilled and capable.

 

A very few of the older tulpas are capable, beyond what you are asking. But, since humans tend to get either upset and.or scared by that, really capable tulpas keep a low profile as a rule. Some you would never guess to be tulpas at all, except that they may seem of unusually kindly nature. (no, not me, I'm a youngster here-about.)

 

Edit: What you are asking, takes a really strong tulpa - I mean like really, really old - more then a decade elapsed old probably. But look at the examples we have of old tulpas - a tulpa doesn't survive that length of time unless she/he is kindly to their human. So whilst a tulpa could become that strong, they would still deffer to the human's preferences because they care for and want to help their human.

 

This is a similar argument as presented in The Time Machine (the 're-imagined' version) - his girlfriend always dies because otherwise he never makes a time machine. Similarly, if a tulpa has lived long enough to become that strong; she/he would not take over from you (because if it was "a tulpa that would" it wouldn't have lived that long).

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