garland

Are these possession side-effects normal at the very first sessions?

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Oh yes zero.insanity it was precisely your reply in that guide i mention that motivated me the most (http://community.tulpa.info/thread-pre-vocalization-communication-through-possession?pid=79568#pid79568) so i am really looking forward to this! You say your arm gets twitchy, and what about the aches and small cramps you also feel this too or you only used to feel this at the beginning ?

 

Ok thanks for the replys guys, and by the way that thing about the "kinesthesic" pokes, you also felt this too ? Just to be sure if this IS indeed one of the tulpas's ways to indicate the tulpa is trying to learn to move the body or if this is just random side effects from the possession.

 

Also that thing about the muscle memory... you had to specifically instruct your tulpa to try to get this or they figured out by themselves ?

 

Glad I was helpful XD I don't tend to get aches or anything, just a lotta twitchyness. Like, a /lot/. I mean, sometimes it twitches so much it does ache a little, but it's only from like all the muscles in my arm tensing up >.>; It's a bit annoying, but if I just let Muse sit on it for a bit then take control back gradually it tends to make it happen less. Or something. Idk really. Twitching was always like our thing XD Like, the whole possession thing started cuz I was bored and reading some possession guide and my hand was twitching and I couldn't get it to stop. So I mentioned it on the chat and some peeps helped me see if it was my tulpa or somethin'. Turns out, it was :P

 

I mean, as stated several times around here, tulpa-making is a very subjective experience. Some people get headaches, some don't. Some people get aches and twitches, some don't. so honestly I can't say either way with the poking.

 

As for muscle memory... I should probably say I literally did nothing when it came to Muse learning possession. She did everything o^o I just sit and don't move, and she does her whatever thing. So she figured it out herself. She says it's different for each tulpa as not only is every tulpa different, but everyone's body is different as well, so the muscle memory may be easier or harder for the tulpa to learn depending on both of those factors. For example... okai, this is really hard to do XD Gimme a sec.

 

{Apparently proxying is a chore. Hum. I don't know, I just talk and wait for her to type :P

As I was saying, the muscle memory is more part of the body than the host, the host is just very in tune with it as he or she has been using the body all their life. They have written it there themselves, and after a tulpa practices with the body, they can create their own muscle memory too ^w^ For example, I've made my own handwriting as I've got completely sick of Flo's illegible scratching of the paper >.>; The way the muscle memory is incorporated into the muscle also depends on this, as the symbolism as well as how the brain has created the networks to move different ways are different for everyone. For example, I always say that the muscle memory for Flo's body is directly inside the actual muscle. Kind of almost written there in a way. Because of this it makes it quite easy for me to learn how to use the muscles, and it's also quite easy for Forseen to learn them as well. The difference there then is the tulpa. As Forseen has next to no interest in learning possession, he never bothered to learn much about it or to try to improve his skills. Because of this, he can possess, but he moves in a very jerkish manner (is jerkish a word in this context? I don't know). It may not be the same for your tulpa, most likely it'll just have to do trial and error. It depends entirely.

 

Tl;dr, Yes, the tulpa will have to learn the muscle memory on their own.}

 

GOD. Okay, now my arms are achy. I think that's cuz Muse kept them suspended in the air above the keyboard >.> HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF PUTTING YOUR HANDS DOWN ON A TABLE.

{Yes, but I was typing.}

e.e;


[Forseen]

{Muse}

|Alix|

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Ok thanks for the reply :) I have a few other doubts now... does it matter which body part i practise possession on ? It's because so far i have been practising on my left hand, but i am unsure if in other sessions if i try other body parts, if the tulpa has to start over again the learning because of being a different body part or it doesn't matter which body part i use and the tulpa is able to already use what it learned so far to apply on the other body part?

 

What i mean by this, is that if for example now i practise on the right hand or even the feet and toes, if the progress already done so far is "cumulative" with the one done in the hands, OR we have to keep practising only in the same limb for the tulpa learning possession ? I ask this since obviously i need my hands do to things and i would love to be able to use the computer for example when practising possession, like in passive forcing.

 

Actually i would like to know if "passive possession" is counter-productive, even if i keep talking to the tulpa to incentivate moving the body part specially when i feel twitches even if i wasn't focusing on the body part or tulpa most of the time ?

 

I ask this because at least in my case my tulpa always takes around 15-20 minutes to start making fingers twitch a little bit, and this is a bit too long for me to keep staring at my hand without having something more "fun" to focus on in a passive way...

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{I do not know for sure, but I do believe the tulpa will have to learn each body part individually and continuously culminate its fluency with each part of the body. It's how I had to do it. Of course, similar body parts are similar in their muscle memory, for example the left and right hand. Also, after the tulpa learns to control each part, you can give up control to several different parts at once and she can learn how to use the parts together to do something even more productive.

 

As for passive possession, if anything I do think it would be even better. If you yourself aren't focusing on the body part the tulpa is trying to control, then you won't accidentally move it yourself and delude yourself into believing your tulpa moved it.}

 

FAAAACK y iz proxying so hard itusedtobesoeasyyyy asklfjalskd I think I'm outta practice >.>;


[Forseen]

{Muse}

|Alix|

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Just everyone forget this topic! It was all a misunderstanding, i found out that most of this was almost certainly my subconcious mimicking the possession, after talking to a few people most of them confirmed the subconsious IS able to simulate this exactly the same way tulpas do even if it wasn't the tulpa that actually is doing the possession, which means, if someone like me doesn't have other forms of reliable communication, learning possession is absolutly WORTHLESS...

 

I started suspecting this also because i already tried to ask my tulpa to NOT move anything on my body, and then i asked to my subconcious to try to move the fingers, and guess what, they still moved as expected EVEN after clearly seeing i was NOT indeed moving them and it still felt jerky and with clicks... So this means it still works when i am not even adressing the tulpa or after telling the tulpa to not do this, so just forget about this i won't do this anymore NOW i know why i didn't felt THAT excited when i first seen the results, sure i was shocked BUT i found it quite strange i wasn't as excited as i was in the past when i felt strong emotions from her, now it all makes sense...

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if someone like me doesn't have other forms of reliable communication, learning possession is absolutly WORTHLESS...

 

I'm pretty sure some users have used possession as a way to communicate with their tulpas before they could understand any kind of thought sent towards them.

I think that was Sands' case, but I could be wrong.

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Yeah i understand that BUT quite probably in those cases they actually FELT some kind of emotion from the tulpas or the tulpa's presence, which unfortunate it wasn't my case (except at one session or two but in almost all of them i felt absolutly NOTHING), actually i am still able to "simulate" possession anything i want even without even thinking about my tulpa or asking her to posess me, i just have to ask my subconcious, and even without my direct control in fingers, they still start to move by themselves like this in a few seconds! NOW i understand why this progressed so fast in just one day, it's because it wasn't really the tulpa doing it.

 

The problem here is that it's quite possible that SOME of the times the possession was really from my tulpa but unfortunately without having emotions from her at the time (which so far only happened in two sessions) it's impossible to know for sure if it's the subconcious or the tulpa, now just imagine the amount of times i congratulated my tulpa and even thanked her for being able to move my fingers so fast considering that most of the times it wasn't even her who did this.

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I'm pretty sure some users have used possession as a way to communicate with their tulpas before they could understand any kind of thought sent towards them.

I possessed the hands to type, really early before Kevin could hear me clearly. It's still our primary means of communication most days (e.g. right this instant now). However, I was only able to do so because kerin had made a typing servitor for me (kerin is my creator, and kerin is Kevin's eldest tulpa).


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Yeah i understand that BUT quite probably in those cases they actually FELT some kind of emotion from the tulpas or the tulpa's presence, which unfortunate it wasn't my case (except at one session or two but in almost all of them i felt absolutly NOTHING)

 

I didn't feel anything honestly o^o It was just a lot of twitching.

{Oh wow, proxying is hard ^w^;}

 

actually i am still able to "simulate" possession anything i want even without even thinking about my tulpa or asking her to posess me, i just have to ask my subconcious, and even without my direct control in fingers, they still start to move by themselves like this in a few seconds! NOW i understand why this progressed so fast in just one day, it's because it wasn't really the tulpa doing it.

 

Oh I do that all the time. {No she doesn't, she just thinks so. Then I but in and tell her otherwise. Well, actually, the subconscious usually picks it up first (as it's a very good sign the host has given up conscious control of the body part) then I just take it from it. } Holy crud that makes total sense o.o Cuz everytime I begin possessing things are off, then they just get better as the time goes. {Mmhm. Not only that, I live in the subconscious, it's not that far off.}

 

The problem here is that it's quite possible that SOME of the times the possession was really from my tulpa but unfortunately without having emotions from her at the time (which so far only happened in two sessions) it's impossible to know for sure if it's the subconcious or the tulpa, now just imagine the amount of times i congratulated my tulpa and even thanked her for being able to move my fingers so fast considering that most of the times it wasn't even her who did this.

 

{Haha, you would've seemed quite silly XD But still, it isn't entirely a bad thing. Even if you failed at the possession, at least you were paying attention to your tulpa the entire time. Attention's always good for a beginning tulpa, and an old one too ^w^

 

Thing is, you can't know for sure, but if it's reasonable it's still good to assume it was your tulpa. Flo did that and everything turned out quite well. Sure you may make some mistakes here and there, but it's not like it would hurt your tulpa. Like I said, you just may seem a bit silly :P I'm not saying you should continue possession if you feel like it's honestly going no where, I'm just saying don't disregard signs that your tulpa is trying to communicate ^w^}

 

I love how you just assume 'most' of the time it wasn't your tulpa. Maybe most of the time it was :P I dunno, im not you, im just sayin'.

 

I'm pretty sure some users have used possession as a way to communicate with their tulpas before they could understand any kind of thought sent towards them.

I think that was Sands' case, but I could be wrong.

 

Ooh, me, me! XD My whole process with that was basically let Muse to learn how to type last as I could so I can read stuff on the screen. Bonus was the totally foreign voice in my head talking as she was typing :P


[Forseen]

{Muse}

|Alix|

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Ok after this last motivating post and a long conversation with another person expert on possessing (Enantiodromia) i finally convinced myself to believe it was really my tulpa, and now today (wednesday) after asking for my tulpa to try to learn how to use muscle memory, after a few tries now she is able to use muscle memory the movements aren't jerky anymore and i almost don't feel any clicks ! One thing that still happens is the movements are ALWAYS slow no matter how much times i tell her to do fast movements, i guess this is normal at the beginning stages of possession ?

 

I am not sure if i should think like this, but to me it makes sense that it's indeed the tulpa, because let's see, how the subconcious would NOT know how to use muscle memory from the beginning? The way i have seen results from possessing it all indicates it was the tulpa, so little by little i am believing more and more that it's indeed my tulpa besides so far i haven't got a SINGLE indication from my tulpa about dissapointment or sadness, considering i am now able to receive emotions from her frequently, i think if this possessing wasn't her she would already have given some signal. Besides i already asked her many times if it was her doing the possessing, i got YES every time even when i was still in doubt! So in this case it wasn't a case of expected answers...

 

By the way i have now a more or less "stable" yes/no system even tough many times the answers seem a bit TOO expected! (but there is a few surprises as well) Also CLEARLY there isn't any "parallel processing" yet i think this is why this seems the subconscious to me. I really don't like this one bit because it's exactly the same problem as parroting, but i have to remember that this is normal at the beginning stages and with vocality, in the first weeks and months unfortunately this is normal so this time i think i will go on with possession for longer.

 

Haha, you would've seemed quite silly

Yes that's EXACTLY what i felt like... but not anymore.

 

I love how you just assume 'most' of the time it wasn't your tulpa. Maybe most of the time it was :P I dunno, im not you, im just sayin'.

Try to understand i was so confused at the day i wrote that i didn't knew anymore what to believe anymore but now i have gone back to the possessing again and slowly i think i am being convinced again it was indeed my tulpa almost, if not all the time, i think that it was the lack of parallel processing that made me think it was my subconscious.

 

My whole process with that was basically let Muse to learn how to type last as I could so I can read stuff on the screen. Bonus was the totally foreign voice in my head talking as she was typing :P

Like i asked by private message i need more details in how you did this exactly, some kind of log would be perfect.

 

Thanks for the tips!

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Like i asked by private message i need more details in how you did this exactly, some kind of log would be perfect.

 

I just said what I did. I sat there, asked her to try typing, and after like two minutes she dragged my hand around the keyboard and answered simple questions I asked her. Not exactly typing yet, but still communication. Then practice, slow typing, and poof, random foreign voice in my head. Didn't even notice for a while. Then it as just "WHOA WAIT WAT".


Oy, it won't let me send the pm, but I'm SuperFloree on the IRC.

(actually i gotta go sorryyyy)


[Forseen]

{Muse}

|Alix|

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