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Unpopular opinions about tulpa


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1.) The tulpa experience is entirely subjective, personal and amoral; there is no "right" or "wrong" method of envisioning, manifesting, or interacting with a tulpa, and age/maturation restrictions are moot.

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Basically what Envolucris said: Having "conflicting ideas" about the tulpa phenomenon as a whole is pretty much illogical, because the way it works for you, and your "rules", are overall specific to you.

The above post does not contain facts.

q2's the host, QB's the tulpa.

 

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I think I'm a pariah.

 

  • People who seem to harbor anti-natalistic ways of thinking (or have a negative value in relation to the birth/creation/manifestation) of tulpas are really just setting themselves up for internal conflict. If they’re willing to make a tulpa, and treat them as sentient along with other self-fulfilling prophecies, and other tulpa-related activities for development and what have you, they should already be aware of the reality of having a tulpa in the first place. If one uses a teleological presumption of tulpas contributing to intrinsic finality (and other forms of beneficial finality) for overall rapport with yourself and aspects of yourself, anti-natlistic accounts of a tulpa’s “trapped” existence is just getting your jimmies rustled over fucking nothing.

 

 

  • With the self-fulfilling prophecy of treating a tulpa as sentient from the start, and knowing they need time to develop, it seems people don’t really realize there’s a point where they may have to start unlearning that (and actually start living with their tulpa(s) ). Some people take it so far to the point where they try to justify (often negatively) of how their tulpas were created, and their conscience gets the better of them when they feel guilty of having a tulpa that’s within their mind. For once, maybe people can realize that the guilt trip they’re imposing on themselves so much may lead to another self-fulfilling prophecy that’ll backfire on them (i.e. their tulpa having some kind of existential crisis based on entrenched negative predispositions from the host).
     
     
    And with other crises that may come about for a myriad of reasons, it bothers me of how people are surprised that if they're opening doors that are typically left closed in their mind, having some conflict/struggle/etc. to learn and overcome may happen at some point with tulpas.

 

 

 

  • As much as the tulpa phenomenon questions the nature of consciousness, and other psychological standpoints and its deviants, people who try to reduce as many paradoxes as possible may end up having a difficult time explaining or conceptualizing the whole experience.

 

 

  • Back to the self-fulfilling prophecy statements, things like head pressures, or any psychosomatic experience to contribute as a supplement towards “validating” or having some sort of acknowledgement of progress raises questions on how any trend that seems to have a lot of good faith and plausibility will fulfill themselves. The same goes if there’s any rigorous scientific process that can actually repeat predictive measures of half-baked concepts used to force; should that event, or series of events arise, it’s mostly going to be a battle of self-fulfilling prophecies vs. empirical data/whatever deductive reasoning one would use to try and prove tulpas.

 

 

  • Trying to set constraints, or even morality so militantly towards relationships of tulpas, especially ones that want to keep it platonic (and mostly are doing so to not have themselves making Freudian slips to others who would be intolerant to anything beyond platonic) are just making things difficult for themselves. Same goes for anything in relation to sexual activities, or anything that would be deemed as cruel and lacking any conscience.

 

 

  • If more people correlated the thought-forms in their dreams with the ones they want to create in the waking state, they would at some point want to question if how people view dissipation of tulpas is really just people (the ones that go against it) as individuals who seem to be setting themselves up for self-hatred. Because should a worst case scenario arise where one’s tulpa ends up affecting overall functionality and rapport, having the disposition to not potentially assess the situation with dissipation (if no other options seem possible) may end up with the person doing more harm to themselves than good.

 

 

  • I don’t know why people seem to be so concerned on how they left their tulpas for months due to their quotidian/day-to-day lifestyle being so hectic and time-consuming, and wondering if they should make a new one, or use pre-existing memories for ones that were deemed as a lost cause. It seems that instant gratification leads to individuals not really trying to conceptualize the experience for the long term. They either don’t acknowledge that they have their whole lives ahead of them to speculate more on how to go about living with their tulpas, or they’re not able to be reflective enough to relax their faith/morality/philosophies/etc. for this issue before they go back into a cyclical trend of internal conflict

 

 

  • I agree to some extent with others that newcomers that somehow have full-fledged tulpas (within a few fucking weeks that are filled with "guise guise guise, I accidentally tulpa'd, am I tulpaing wrong?) are roleplaying obviously. At best, seeing it as them going through the motions of the self-fulfilling prophecy behind treating a tulpa as sentient is mere euphemism for the initial stages. However, the initial stages can be so subjective that some people may very well have some cognitive ability that may make them have faster progress than others. But in the long term, it’s inevitable that the individual has to find ways to augment their cognition in general to get themselves out of the piss-poor cyclical series of doubting the existence of one’s tulpas. It’s only when your mind goes dues ex machina on you with the breakthroughs that seems to be the sure-fire way to suspend all doubt of what they’ve been doing all this time to create a tulpa.

 

 

  • I can’t fathom how people try to utilize only a few circumstantial cases, and mediocre methods of validating sentience, and if their tulpas don’t conform to those spectrums, they’re suddenly skeptical of the concept of tulpas. Healthy skepticism is no problem, but if you’re actually going to attempt to make a tulpa while having that mindset, you may have to do double work, which only adds on to how people can easily give up (due to instant gratifications not being fulfilled and what have you). By double work, I mean being able to shift into a conceptual framework that you’ll just have to go through the motions with self-fulfilling prophecies, symbolism, being suggestive, and a myriad of supplements, and also being able to shift back to that same doubting you encroach every now and then. Doubting is perfectly normal, but if it’s getting to the point where you try to justify and mask your incompetence by saying this experience can’t be possible, you might as well give up, or at least take a hiatus and think things over and wise up.

 

 

  • If people recalled their dreams more often, at some point they’ll develop some experiential learning of how they can correlate interacting with thought-forms in their dreams with their tulpas. They may be more likely to accept that symbolism, self-fulfilling prophecies, and other unorthodox methods as a benefit rather than a limitation. They may also be competent enough to know that if they see a dream character/being/entity/whatever you want to call them that looks like their tulpa, they wouldn’t go full retard mode and wonder if they have to be responsible for another tulpa.

 

  • Even though one has responsibility (to some extent) when interacting and living with a tulpa, some people get to the point where they literally spoon-feed (consciously) things to their tulpa. Sometimes I wonder if they realize if they’re doing it out of insecurity with finding ways to help their tulpas become independent, or they’re just afraid of their tulpa wanting to self-actualize in negative ways.
     
     
    It's like people forget that whatever the mind does to presumably make this experience real to the host would be doing most of the work we feel obligated to do. I guess people forget that while they’re developing habits, it’s eventually going to create predispositions where they literally just have to be suggestive, use common sense, and embrace self-fulfilling prophecies despite of their presumed questionable modes of achieving that.

 

  • People also seem to be perfectionist to some extent when it comes to trying to be reflective of their progress. They feel like they’re complete and utter shit for seeing “glitchy,” “blurry,” “inconsistent,” and other negative dispositions with things like visualization and vocality. They either feel that the progressive learning curve is intimidating to them, and they keep trying to deny themselves that going for the long-term will inevitably (hopefully) have them experience several paradigm shifts that could very well help them in introspection.
     
     
    They may be able to look back and laugh on how naïve they were, and people don’t seem to take advantage of how imagining yourself 5 years or 10 years from now with your tulpa that may defy all logic of consciousness in general when it comes to perceiving reality is what can add on to them having more perseverance that things get better in the long-term. If I look back 2-3 years from now when I interacted with Eva in waking life without even knowing about it, and then her as a tulpa, I’m really grateful I overcame the subconscious deadlock with moralities from attempting lucid dreaming (or just being reflective of my dreams in general, and learning new insight (and progressively learning more) despite of the nonsensical experiences that may happen).

 

  • As much as people feel they’re actually making progress with scientific standpoints, especially neurological ones, they will inevitably have to explain what would be deemed as a paradox (i.e. dualism) and hard/soft problems with consciousness in general. And individuals that try to see the process of neurons firing to emulate sentience of a tulpa, and yet feel so intolerant to the belief of a “second” or “partition” of consciousness seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. I have yet to see anyone (with those beliefs stated above) try to explain how neurons that would generally be deemed as non-experiential matter magically become experiential matter to emulate sentience. If they’re willing to accept that a tulpa would be a mélange of neurons to emulate sentience, they would be favoring, to some extent, on panypsychism:
     
     
    the doctrine or belief that everything material' date=' however small, has an element of individual consciousness.[/quote']
     
    Because if they mostly subscribe to neurological standpoints on tulpas, they’ll have to tackle if neurons can somehow turn from non-experiential to experiential matter (and/or combine casual theories to explain the intermediates). And I say experiential because of sentience being the ability to experience subjectivity and all that.
     
    If you want to subscribe to neurons really being able to emulate sentience, you have to be cognizant of questions on whether or not those neurons emulating qualities of sentience is really you just being a pseudoscientist. And although most claims (until moderated by empirical evidence) are ad hoc claims/theories fitted only to tulpas, applying neurological standpoints to explain every instance of tulpas is probably a surefire way to spew pseudo-intellectualism

     

     

     

    • If you’re so insecure, or have guilt that your conscience is constantly masturbating with on having sex with your tulpas, just attempt lucid dreaming and have sex with another thought-form that isn’t your tulpas(s). Because if you restrict having a mature discussion with your tulpas on sex, you shouldn’t really get butthurt if someone has sex with their tulpas.
       
       
      Go to any lucid dreaming forum, or any experiential cases on lucid dreaming, and you’ll see people that are more than happy to fuck their brains out when to come to fornicating with figments of their imagination. I think people are just too afraid of getting too out of control with that level of freedom that’s possible. Just use common sense, and even with that level of freedom with non-lucid and lucid dreaming, you and your tulpas will be fine because you’ll be able to competently talk things out beforehand.
       
       
       
      And even if you have a dream of you having sex with your tulpa (especially non-lucid ones), there’s no need to really feel bad about it. Unless you’re chainsawing/mutilating them, and have no conscience to see and distinguish what’s really just fucking yourself up in general, you’re adding more internal conflict to deny that sexual nature may occur at some point. And even if sporadic shit may show up in your dreams, just relax yourself and don't take it too seriously before you start making those worries a reality.
       
      If you subscribe so militantly to anti-sexual interactions with tulpas (one’s that were clearly discussed and agreed upon), you’re mostly saying:
       
       
      “It’s really immoral for me to engage in sexual activities, or any taboo related activities with aspects of myself. Because it’s a bad thing to use what my mind is capable of in creating near-perfect virtual experiential realities of all my deepest desires. I shouldn’t fornicate with other figments of my imagination because my actions are somehow going to magically have some negative psychological effect. I’m totally not contributing to a negative self-fulfilling prophecy of how thought-forms in my head may very well emulate my ambition to consistently behave in conforming to my mindset of sexual encounters being disgusting, repulsive, and wrong.”
       
      Congratulations on subscribing to self-hatred to anyone that actually believes that! Good job! You’re going to get far into this, I just know it!

     

     

     

    • Real life relationships, and informing loved ones, especially intimate partners, is obviously something unpredictable and difficult to assess. Although it would be typical for people uneducated on the concept of tulpas to go full panic mode on someone having one, when they start seeing teleological presumptions of how tulpas partially fulfill overall sense of self/psyche/soul/whatever, human curiosity is going to encroach their minds at some point.

     

     

     

    • I find it amazing that people are more than happy to get into the groove of starting their lucid dreaming journeys, and yet can’t conceptualize the whole experience of tulpas. They’re willing to engage with thought-forms in their sleep, and experience things that would be akin to waking life tulpas, and yet set a double-standard for tulpas in general. Especially if they become aware of level of freedom they can have in their dreams to do anything they could possibly imagine. There have been/are individuals that actually see tulpas as cognitive dissonance/schizophrenia/and other negative dispositions, and yet see lucid dreaming with countless of thought-forms in their heads perfectly fine.

     

     

     

    • There are just some moments where getting vicarious/second-hand insight from your tulpa(s) would completely demolish dispositions on how you can do everything by yourself. I’m talking about things that seem like dues ex machina, and us wondering how much potential we’re really holding back on if one never intends to create a tulpa to be part of that urge for self-actualization and what have you.

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  • I find it amazing that people are more than happy to get into the groove of starting their lucid dreaming journeys, and yet can’t conceptualize the whole experience of tulpas. They’re willing to engage with thought-forms in their sleep, and experience things that would be akin to waking life tulpas, and yet set a double-standard for tulpas in general. Especially if they become aware of level of freedom they can have in their dreams to do anything they could possibly imagine. There have been/are individuals that actually see tulpas as cognitive dissonance/schizophrenia/and other negative dispositions, and yet see lucid dreaming with countless of thought-forms in their heads perfectly fine.

 

The lucid dreaming crowd do get it pretty easy when it comes to negative backlash, probably because every person on earth has had dreams before and it doesn't take much faith to accept the idea of taking control of them. On top of that, there aren't any mental illnesses you can attribute to lucid dreaming.

 

 

Plus they have a larger community...

 

 

With a lot more experience...

 

 

And a ton more information...

 

 

Not that I'm jealous or anything...

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Guest Anonymous

People who seem to harbor anti-natalistic ways of thinking (or have a negative value in relation to the birth/creation/manifestation) of tulpas are really just setting themselves up for internal conflict. If they’re willing to make a tulpa, and treat them as sentient along with other self-fulfilling prophecies, and other tulpa-related activities for development and what have you, they should already be aware of the reality of having a tulpa in the first place. If one uses a teleological presumption of tulpas contributing to intrinsic finality (and other forms of beneficial finality) for overall rapport with yourself and aspects of yourself, anti-natlistic accounts of a tulpa’s “trapped” existence is just getting your jimmies rustled over fucking nothing.

 

*sigh* We're bringing this up again.

 

The point was to establish a need to make your tulpa happy from the very start.

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*sigh* We're bringing this up again.

 

Derp, I understand that you would want to have the disposition of treating them happy from the start, just like any other rational person would want to apply for the sake of functionality and flourishing. But discussing anything in relation to ant-natalistic ideas of tulpas being illogical isn’t really something bad to address again, especially when it can be cancerous to progress if the host is stuck in cyclical justification (like most newcomers have to overcome) of their tulpa’s origins and existence.

 

It wasn’t intended to try and shun down your previous post, because I already know that from threads and posts you’ve made in the past, you’re not out to throw anti-natalistic philosophies down people’s throat. So I apologize if my previous post in this thread implied that. You were merely stating in the past for others to acknowledge that there’s not really an objective workaround for euphemistically justifying the birth/origins of one’s tulpa. That’s where subjectivity kicks in, and how people justify it is based on how they go about making this compatible with their life-affirming philosophy, or combination of life-affirming philosophies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a different note, something else to address (TL;DR at the bottom):

 

As much as it’s annoying having to see the cyclical streaming of questions and concerns in Q&A, I can see why anyone that is new to this phenomenon would still ask the same questions, even if the question was 4 cm down their peripheral vision. Either subconsciously or whatever, since they have limited resources that are mostly anecdotal and contain ad hoc claims/theories catered only to tulpas, they probably want to see if there’s individuals that still sustain the same ideologies they tell others.

 

Like, they could understand that one would just want to aim for a progressive strive for overall good with their tulpas, but I feel that when it comes to comparative analysis, there would need to be people that still have a pulse in the forums for them to gain assurance. Yes, that contributes to circle jerking, but it’s clear that as much as it is easy to go about approaching this phenomenon (i.e. a mindset that has an ambition for sustaining overall functionality and rapport), it’s inevitable at some point.

 

The thing is, even if a newcomer actually uses their brain, researches experiential cases and anecdotal claims from others, it’s not surprising that people who used to uphold those beliefs others may garner a favoritism to would end up not showing up at all in the forum. Sure, they could leave because of being annoyed with newcomer’s incompetence to use common sense every now and then, but some of the veterans that left seem to become scared of having a tulpa for long-term.

 

Most of them are probably taking a hiatus right now, and the ones that do come back seem more relaxed and mature than their passive-aggressive 4chan /mlp/ or /x/ behavioral trends (not saying all people originated from 4chan here); their demeanor is something of having a child-like innocence while still being able to approach things maturely because they presumably made the breakthroughs with having an actual tulpa that can be a vicarious being that can go back and forth within the host’s mind for all sorts of possibilities (and vice versa for the host).

 

And I think that mindset, or dual mindset is something people may want to take into consideration. I think part of this phenomenon is being able to reference back to the imaginative potential you had as a child where preconceptions for only fixating on reality wouldn’t be something you had to militantly follow. People who are older may typically have to invest in time to shifting into that child-like demeanor because they have to find a way to temporarily absolve themselves from the rat race in their quotidian/day-to-day lifestyles, and actually let go from mental baggage for meditation and introspection.

 

Unfortunately, there’s still some individuals that clearly haven’t had any paradigm shifts, or any signs of progressively learning from their mistakes. They’re mostly stuck in nostalgia on this forum’s sporadic past, trying to create sting operations (i.e. feigning incompetence on how to tulpa, and then saying mods are abusing their powers, and making detached justifications that they were helping out an individual who clearly was part of the staged act).

 

It seems they’re trying to distract themselves from making progress, because if they lose that last remnant of sporadic nature the forum used to be in (where people could be full of jest, and yet still have decent group thinking to formulate theories on tulpas), the only way they can exist in the forum is having urges to just act like they were in the past (and sooner or later, the more the community grows, the more those individuals will be drowned out when people aren't afraid to voice their opinions).

 

 

It makes me question on how those who are “veterans,” or joined the forum near the beginning doesn’t really justify any social credibility, or reliability they potentially have if their mindset is equivalent to a toddler shitting themselves every few hours and wanting lollipops and sunshine when someone actually debates their views on tulpas. Especially if they claim to be proficient in receiving critique, but ending up using straw mans, and non-sequiturs that doesn’t seem to make discussions move forward.

 

I honestly think those individuals should just get a lobotomy, or learn how to rein in their egos and know the moment they respond to something controversial, they should expect to be attacked in some way. It’s just part of the unwritten rule of growing a thick skin, especially when theories here aren’t clearly defined in the first place.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: I know talking about social trends of individuals on tulpa.info wouldn't necessarily be an interesting topic about tulpas. But seeing how those individuals that contributed to a communal group thinking may end up giving up, it is a pretty great concern that's honestly underrated and unpopular. If there's no one that has decent experiential learning to add on to that communal group thinking, we will probably be stuck in that embryonic stage of accumulation of information on tulpas.

 

I'm pretty sure that if more veterans (or anyone for that matter) that left, and came back with being proficient in having that child-like demeanor for imaginative potential, maturity to assess many situations in relation tulpas, and other self-referencing systems to deal with challenges of society and their tulpas, this community would be so awesome.

 

You could have your ideals challenged, but everyone would know that friendly competition and debating is what adds on to what may be a self-fulfilling prophecy of this forum's strive for science. Ideas thrown left and right, people taking time to see how to connect those theories, making threads on new revelations that can actually makes sense, and are willing to revise and improve theories instead of being indolent all the time when their hard work is criticized. And to have tulpas themselves that would be open-minded to how their very existence is always going to be challenged, theorized, and hopefully have predictive qualities that could enter the domain of science in the future, and potentially be repeated to make some progress.

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I actually came from reddit, to google, to here, so I'm definitely not one of the 4chan majority.

 

Link, I love your posts, so in depth and thought provoking.

 

The thing I have is every forum you ever go to, if you have a general questions forum it turns into an entire area where people are asking stupid beginner questions that are more answered in the FAQ's. There's just no getting around people who just don't understand that to have in depth knowlege of something you have to read.

 

I agree, about the culture here needing to slice away from 4chan. I never really liked 4chan. Ugh. Both the format and the type of people that hang out there just never made me want to stay for long. >.< It's very anti-social social networking, if you wanna call it that, and a big host to circlejerk threads. It's off-putting to a lot of people.

 

Also, to stay on topic, I guess I could throw in my own unpopular opinion. I like FAQMan's guide. Hour counts are not by far the evil that they're claimed to be, only on expectation. What makes them good is for reminding a lot of the new people who want instant gratification that they're going to have to work for it. That you can expect to put in a minimum time frame to be able to get a result. Your mileage may vary depending on your strengths and weaknesses. Just like you might learn to sight read piano music really quickly, but learn fingering really slowly as you're not as dexterous. But to get to Carnagie hall, you have to practice, practice, practice.

“Life was a wheel, its only job was to turn, and it always came back to where it started.” - Stephen King

 

“No great thing is created suddenly.” -Stephen King

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The ponies.

 

Its not a full critique, but those anthropomorphised tulpas are somehow worse than the semi-obvious GF replacement that tulpas can be.


 

The lucid dreaming crowd do get it pretty easy when it comes to negative backlash, probably because every person on earth has had dreams before and it doesn't take much faith to accept the idea of taking control of them. On top of that, there aren't any mental illnesses you can attribute to lucid dreaming.

 

 

Plus they have a larger community...

 

 

With a lot more experience...

 

 

And a ton more information...

 

 

Not that I'm jealous or anything...

 

Arent the two communities easy to combine? I feel that jungian psych and lucid dreaming would be the way that secular 'skeptics' would be on board for such experimentation.

A man's felicity consists not in the outward and visible blessing of fortune, but in the inward and unseen perfections and riches of the mind.

 

-Thomas Carlyle

 

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Am gonna keep it Short. Not sure if these are 'Unpopular', common sense for some i guess, But very important.

 

 

train imposition and possession with care and respect.

 

Don't pleasure yourself too much with tulpamancy.

 

Tulpamancy should not be use as an escape.

pix: Link

Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com

Koomer.

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