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It literally says the bottle has been tilted. If you tilt a bottle, the water level in it does not stay the same. Your hypothesis also doesn't explain why women are much more likely to get this wrong.

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It is true that, as presented to us, there are some assumptions being taken into account and not explicitly outlined. It also gets a bit hyperbolic at the end. "Trust me bro, women are dumberer. Follow the evidence." Why is it impossible to explain? How was it confirmed internally? How many studies and how was the sample conducted? If it was fairly administered then I am curious as to the cause. In most cases involving intelligence, I'm more inclined towards a failing of effort or critical thinking than capacity. Those cultural influences it tells us to disregard. Perhaps women are discouraged from taking the time needed to solve a problem? Also clearly most women still got it right. They had enough spatial awareness to put that together. So it’s not a hard and fast biological difference. What I'm more curious about is what was different between the individual women. Or between the men, for that matter. Seems sus. 🤔

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16 minutes ago, Yakumo said:

Your hypothesis also doesn't explain why women are much more likely to get this wrong.

I cannot yet offer an explanation for that. I somewhat doubt that claim that it can't be explained by differences in culture and socialization. I don't have access to a lot of the studies that seem to be on this topic, but what I have found is that generally samples are taken of college students, which are not necessarily representative of the global human population. who knows what results you would get if you sampled poor 60-year-olds in nepal. I cannot guess what cultural factors are at play here though, if indeed it is cultural as I think

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Oh wait, the test is just about the line angle? God dangit, I was putting so much effort into visualizing the exact heights in this test

 

No way to check my answers though, not that it matters if they were just testing for level lines

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Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

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Just now, Breloomancer said:

I cannot yet offer an explanation for that. I somewhat doubt that claim that it can't be explained by differences in culture and socialization.

 

Cultural and social differences that change whether someone can simulate the movement of water w/gravity in their head? No chance

 

If it's as widespread a phenomenon proven countless times all across the world as they say, it's clearly a difference in the brains of males and females

There are really countless differences in the brains of men and women, so it's not completely surprising, though it is surprising that anyone would consistently fail to draw a level line based on literally any trait other than young age

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Water level test has been repeated over and over again for decades and the results remained the same. Even when taking physical knowledge, effects of the container and development status in childern into account a significant gender bias favoring males remains for a 45° tilted bottle.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sergio-Morra-2/publication/247506349_A_test_of_a_neo-Piagetian_model_of_the_water-level_task/links/0deec534ed0d12b20c000000/A-test-of-a-neo-Piagetian-model-of-the-water-level-task.pdf

 

No one has been able to offer a sufficient explanation so far which makes the water level test such an interesting subject.

 

@Luminesce

I also thought is was about the exact water level first which is not easy without calculations  (and knowing the exact 3d shape of the container) but failing to grasp that water level in a bottle is always horizontal as an adult absolutely baffles me. But then again, I'm a freak who loved to experiment with anything, inclunding water filled containers as a kid.

 

Now here's the real question to stir up some fuss:

How do trans persons score? Is anyone brave enough to carry out such experiment?

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5 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Oh wait, the test is just about the line angle? God dangit, I was putting so much effort into visualizing the exact heights in this test

 

No way to check my answers though, not that it matters if they were just testing for level lines

yeah, I thought that it was about the height as well until I read the answer

 

4 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Cultural and social differences that change whether someone can simulate the movement of water w/gravity in their head? No chance

you are thinking too limitedly about how people could get the question wrong. it is possible for someone who understands the effects of gravity on water perfectly to answer incorrectly by misunderstanding the question. but even if it truly is that the women who took the test have worse spacial reasoning skills than the men who took the test on average, I still would say that the chance of that being cultural is significantly higher than zero. in countries where men have greater education opportunities than women, women have significantly lower iq than men, but in countries where education opportunities is more equal between men and women, men and women tend to have around the same average iq score. if iq can be cultural, then why not spacial reasoning. of course, many of these studies were on college students, so if it were cultural, the cause couldn't be as simple as a lack of education opportunities, but that still doesn't rule out the possibility of it being cultural

 

4 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

If it's as widespread a phenomenon proven countless times all across the world as they say, it's clearly a difference in the brains of males and females

There are really countless differences in the brains of men and women, so it's not completely surprising, though it is surprising that anyone would consistently fail to draw a level line based on literally any trait other than young age

it is said to be proven many times internationally in the image, but that could just mean that it was done to a bunch of WEIRD (western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) people in different countries

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(edited)

Some posts from a reddit thread (don't worry, the subreddit is for evolutionary psychology) about this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/evopsych/comments/lm5rdv/40_of_college_women_fail_the_piaget_waterlevel/

 

 

Quote

{OP, who posted a video on this}

I think it's really as simple as they don't know because they typically just don't have as developed visuospatial skills for obvious evolutionary reasons.

Same is true for men and their verbal ability or their often inability to do both systematising and empathising. Check out my second video in the series

where I discuss women's better interhemispheric connectivity: https://youtu.be/CgOHvFW0eos

Quote

{OP}

Yes, they have many advantages, verbal is a big one. They have a massive advantage in episodic memory.

So much so that women who are 20-40 IQ points below men still equal them in verbal episodic tasks and they destroy them in face recall tasks,

because they don't use intelligence related cognition for face recall. Instead, they use increased scanning. Fascinating

Quote

{Not OP}

Emotional intelligence as well. There have been numerous studies where men and women assess

what emotion an individual is trying to display and women on average consistently outperform men.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Yakumo said:

I also thought is was about the exact water level first which is not easy without calculations  (and knowing the exact 3d shape of the container) but failing to grasp that water level in a bottle is always horizontal as an adult absolutely baffles me. But then again, I'm a freak who loved to experiment with anything, inclunding water filled containers as a kid.

 

I can safely say that no part of my thought process was about the water level being level in the end - it has nothing to do with my intelligence, it's literally like a default checkbox that happens unconsciously, versus my actual visualizing/rationalizing of what heights the water would be at, which required actual thought

The fact that women consistently fail this tells me it's just not a default thoughtless checkbox in their minds, which points towards it being a brain sex difference (as opposed to learned intelligence or something)

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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This.

The idea that you have to think about whether the water level could be anything other than horizontal irrespective of the rotation of the container is absolutely alien to me.

 

3 minutes ago, Breloomancer said:

it is said to be proven many times internationally in the image, but that could just mean that it was done to a bunch of WEIRD (western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) people in different countries

40% of western females in college fail this test. We're not talking about some uncontacted natives who have never seen a glass bottle or have an esoteric understanding of gravity or other traditions of magical thinking.

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trying to explain this with evolutionary psychology seems pretty sketch. studies done on groups of WEIRD people cannot be taken as representative of all of humanity, and in fact, are often not. you can't try to come up with an evolutionary reason for the universality of some trait when you don't even know that it is universal

 

13 minutes ago, Yakumo said:

40% of western females in college fail this test. We're not talking about some uncontacted natives who have never seen a glass bottle or have an esoteric understanding of gravity or other traditions of magical thinking.

if you want to find out why we have this pattern, we need to see if it holds true for other cultures. if it does not, then that would strongly imply that it is because of cultural factors rather than biological ones, and vice versa. from there, further narrowing down of the source can be done

I have a tulpa named Miela who I love very much.

 

 
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