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18 minutes ago, TB said:

Learning japanese doesn't really feel like effort so much to me except when I learned kanji. It is often too fun to feel like effort.

 

Well, I meant the feeling of wanting to avoid effort is often a signal of something that would count/be good to do, but the effort feeling isn't strictly tied to what's good for your brain. Anything where you're engaging with new stimuli, new things to process and think about, can probably count

 

But new doesn't mean "My 1,728th time playing this game because it's slightly different each time" or consuming mental junk-food/popcorn content, those are basically old things categorically with just minorly new experiences inside of them, I mean new mental-categories more or less, like going somewhere you've never been before, or learning an entirely new skill

 

(Progressing through a same-thing can still count to varying extents depending on the thing, like getting a more in-depth understanding - just mind that when you apply that to something like Slay The Spire run 1728... It's like taking a couple baby steps and calling that "going on a walk")

Edited by Reisen

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.

Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)

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(edited)

Idk, slay the spire has a lot of emergent complexity, and is extremely hard especially on ascension 17 and above. Baalorlord has played the game for 8000 hours and still finds that difficulty unfairly hard and wins about 60% of runs. That said a seed that is unwinnable is extremely rare. You have to expend tremendous effort thinking of novel solutions to problems and with so many cards and relics you aren't likely going to have a run that is the same as another. There is just too many things interacting that need taken note of and you have to regularly make decisions where the correct answer is totally unclear. I really cannot imagine that game would stop your brain from growing, especially when there is still room to improve after 8000 hours of play. He even says it would probably take that many hours to master the defect alone, being the most complex character. 

 

Anyway, does your brain really stop benefitting just because it is the same game or skill, even if you are never made to stop thinking and analyzing? It isn't one of those games you can get a perfect win rate at or play perfectly

 

I can see how low ascension might stop benefitting you. A player can get good enough to have a near 100% win rate on low or non ascension, but high ascension is never just automatic. Also if you are at low ascension and consistently fail because you suck, you probably are still evolving there too even if you've played a lot of games

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

 

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Resident Dojikko

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Never knew there was a competitor to garageband, the more you know the more you know

 

Must create account to search?????

You know what, maybe just tell me what the profile page looks like or something. Send some screenshots or copy paste your bio, why don’t you. Or maybe even send a screen recording of you scrolling on the website for a bit

 

41 minutes ago, Reisen said:

consuming mental junk-food/popcorn content

I like this metaphor for some reason. I’m gonna start using it

D-prime is shrinking as we speak.

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(edited)

Basically anything that requires active creativity I can't imagine would ever stop using your brain. I would think it only applies to things that result in you spacing out and doing them automatically and rely only on muscle memory or if requiring thinking, requires only slow thinking with easy answers 

 

I'm curious also if fighting games stop benefitting your brain at least when you play at or slightly above your level. You have to be really sharp and perceptive, and even though combos are just muscle memory, you still have to learn or invent new ones as you go through different characters or new games, and if you stick to just one character and game, you are fighting a large variety of people with different play styles, and it requires answering problems in fractions of a second, which is really hard. It also is an activity that would induce flow a lot, and I assume flow is good for the brain, though part of the definition of flow is that the task feels effortless, though it also requires a task that is slightly above your skill level, so the lack of effortfulness is not because the activity is just brain junkfood

 

For drawing, marc said drawing is a compound skill, so it isn't a singular skill. It is a plethora of skills you have to level up and then make interact together properly. And if you somehow mastered it all entirely, which I'm not sure anyone ever has, it still involves creativity unless you always draw the same things. I mention this because I don't think the skill needs to be new, though you did mention that already by saying it could increase in depth, but I got the feeling you implied that would stop eventually. Maybe it does for some skills

 

 

Also sorry for ignoring Ashii. I was just vigorously responding to reisen. also I don't say any of that to defend some slay the spire playing addiction. I've had the game since like august of last year and only have 150-200 hours in it

 

And I could be wrong but it is just hard to believe the brain only benefits from things you haven't done before and difficult things don't mean much if anything. If it only benefits from what you haven't done before, I think most people are screwed, as it is very unlikely someone is going to find something new to do every day for the rest of their life. I would think as long as there are still things to learn and a requirement of analyzing your results and progress, you would get something out of it, if the brain is anything like a muscle, which I've heard before, but may be false idk

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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9 minutes ago, ringgggg said:

I like this metaphor for some reason. I’m gonna start using it

 

"Mental popcorn" is a common phrase, and I didn't even reinvent the wheel very well

 

Anyways idk, draw your own conclusions I guess TB

I can't define the exact moment it becomes no longer efficient to focus on the same activity, it's a sense you need to develop for yourself, noticing when most of your time is mental filler and not creating new synapses anymore

 

I personally do not think playing a game at a competitive level (for example, but just anything from STS to Street Fighter to chess, or even Minecraft building) offers particularly meaningful benefits to your brain health, compared to just actually partaking in new activities

 

Not that it's the end of the world if one activity isn't breaking new ground for you every day, or to say that super-specializing in a skill is bad, but if we're talking about brain health, it's just not really worth logical-bargaining with same-activities and how they might still be a tiny bit new/engaging, compared against wholly new experiences, like... Well, I can't say what's new for someone else, but compared against games, things like cooking, walking around towns/cities/parks you've not been to before, learning new skills like how to play an instrument and read sheet music or what goes into hiking long trails where you need to set up camp each night..

 

We're pretty good at "theory" and not so experienced with the "practice", so trying to give examples of enriching experiences always makes us feel dumb, given we've been mostly sitting in our room for 15 years

The concepts should be easy to grasp though, and then the exploration is up to you

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.

Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)

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I see. If true that is pretty disappointing. That forces you to be a jack of all trades and not good at any particular thing if you want your brain to be healthy. I'm sure most don't do that though and their brains don't seem particularly not healthy. What's the reward for always doing new things? You evade alzheimer's when you get old? Though I've heard anyone could get that no matter how healthy their brain seemed to be while young. I'd hope the chances go down at least

 

I wonder what brain health really looks like though. Usually people would go to emotional intelligence and wellbeing, but you can get that from knowing coping skills that work and having something you really are passionate about. I'm not sure I'd feel better if I did new things all the time. Also wouldn't hiking suffer from the same problem a video game does? You are just walking through paths and trees and stuff. They might be new places, but they still are basically seeing the same stuff, just organized differently, like playing the same game would. Hikes would probably help me a lot right now because I've never been on a hike, but you'd get used to it like anything else I think. Maybe if you went trailblazing and went off path so you have to really pay attention to what you are seeing so you don't get lost and die, but that seems dangerous. I think the majority of the benefit would just come from the exercise. If it just came from exploring a new area, then minecraft should still benefit you as long as you explore somewhere you haven't been before

 

But yeah I guess I'm screwed. I assume experiencing something new a few times a month wouldn't be enough to make a difference, and I don't even know how I'd manage that much. For this entire year so far, all I did was get an instrument I never played before, but I don't know how long that benefits before it is too old to help

 

According to what I've heard before and also a very quick google search, meditation is very good for the brain, though. That's the only way I'll have a healthier brain, at least from an activity. Exercise and eating healthy would help too. Drawing and Japanese are my only regular activities that use the mind a lot, but they are definitely not new, so I guess they don't help, even though immersing in japanese physically feels like the mental equivalent of doing a marathon lol. My brain feels like levy angstrom after doing that too much. I can see how drawing doesn't help even if what I said were to be true, because I learn very slowly and often draw similar things

 

I thought you were creating new synapses as long as you learn and improve at something. If it only happens when you are doing something you've never done before... guess I'll have to master drawing and japanese with whatever synapses I currently have. I assume it'd have to be multiple times a week at least, so I can't do that even if I tried. Intuition tells me there has to be more ways to make synpases than just experiencing new things, but maybe other things are healthy for the brain in ways other than making synpapses, idk. I don't know how the brain works fully, at least on a physical level

 

At least meditation improves cognition and a lot of other things, which I know for sure because I've experienced it vividly in the past. It is not a small difference. It feels like it isn't helping as much now, but like everything I'm struggling to improve but once I do it will probably become obvious again. I presume the brain mustn't be just about synapses and many people get very very far in endeavors by just obsessing on one thing, so regularly increasing your synapses doesn't seem required for learning I guess. I mistakenly thought learning=synapses being made

 

I'll have to research or ask someone if there is actually brain benefit to learning a language. I thought there would be, but after language learning isn't new anymore I guess it loses at least one benefit, hopefully there are more. Starting a new language would be new information but you've experienced this process already so it isn't really newer than learning something new in a language you already know

 

Feel bad for typing so long, I always want to say a lot for some reason. I don't want to come to my own conclusions not having read about what helps the brain thoroughly. I assume you have so you know it requires primarily truly new activities instead of new things in old activities. Wonder if rearranging funiture in your house does that and that's why people do it. I'll never do that at least as long as I live where I do lol

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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(edited)

Also rereading I did notice again you said learning new things in the same category works a little but not for things like slay the spire. So idk how much that means Japanese or drawing applies. You said you don't know the cutoff point either. So who knows. But still sounds like it has to be a totally new thing to be significant and that if drawing or Japanese does at all it would be small 

 

I think at first you said effort is a good way to know if it does though and one can certainly get that from old things, so idk how good that is. So many things that can be new but not have that aversive yucky feeling, and so many things that can be old that do have that feeling, so it doesn't seem reliable at all. If all it requires was being present, focused, and deliberate, then a lot of things you said don't cause it would. Same for if it required thinking through solutions to problems. So idk. I'll have to read what things can cause it somewhere later. Searching for information and hoping it is correct is a yucky feeling thing though 

 

Almost just had a ZK class end of the world scenario lol. I was going to pour hot water into the ramen cup right next to my phone but realized the danger soon enough to move it lol 

 

Also wonder if ido's article said something about how new something has to be. I feel like it mentioned something about it but idr. I only read part of it and mostly took ido's word. I remember it saying highly educated people's minds decline slower, I think. I don't know what the difference is in learning new things in school subjects and learning new things in a singular skill though. It is still adding something you didn't know before to your mind and creating the grooves for dealing with new experiences. I guess in learning a skill or a language knowledge usually gets added connected to something else you already know. Though I feel school would do that same, so idk 

 

 

I thought poached eggs were when you cook them in water below boiling point. Apparently that is a coddled egg. My life is a lie

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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(edited)
53 minutes ago, TB said:

I see. If true that is pretty disappointing. That forces you to be a jack of all trades and not good at any particular thing if you want your brain to be healthy. I'm sure most don't do that though and their brains don't seem particularly not healthy. What's the reward for always doing new things? You evade alzheimer's when you get old?

--

I wonder what brain health really looks like though. 

--

But yeah I guess I'm screwed. I assume experiencing something new a few times a month wouldn't be enough to make a difference, and I don't even know how I'd manage that much.

--

I thought you were creating new synapses as long as you learn and improve at something. If it only happens when you are doing something you've never done before...

 

People maintain good brain health just by living active lives, talking to new people (or old people about new things), experiencing new/infrequent things, basically anything that engages their brain in a variety of ways over time

Vacations (whether fishing, visiting a fancy or foreign city, going to the beach, or whatever) are good for the parts of your brain that grow by experiencing new places (or just changes-of-pace.. change of place)

Talking to new people or the-same people about new things helps with social parts of your brain as well as general fresh input instead of being stuck with your old thoughts/stimuli
Practicing new skills or new frontiers of old skills helps with... so on and so on

--

Healthy brains in this sense both mean feeling better in general mentally, and having literal better brain health (lessened chance of things like alzheimer's, or depression or etc.)

Better coping with stress, easier learning/adapting to new things, basically tons of good stuff. Makes sense, given it's your brain and all, kind of important

--

You don't have to specifically "do a new thing", though I think I better covered the concept in that first paragraph so I don't know what more to say here, just don't let your life be stagnant

--

Same thing again, sure you create new synapses constantly from doing anything at all, but you make drastically more doing some sorts of things than old/mundane ones. Like saying "I thought you gained muscle fibers from walking around your house every day", like, yeah.. But it's nothing compared to doing squats, nor will it apply to other parts of your body very well ("playing more STS won't apply to other parts of your brain-")

 

24 minutes ago, TB said:

You said you don't know the cutoff point either.

 

I meant more I can't define it 

1, in words

2, for you specifically, and

3, in exact terms, because it is not exact like a "cutoff"

 

We can gauge just fine when our brain is not being stimulated by something compared to when we're engaged in something new, if we think to do so anyway

 

Of all that though, I would focus on the part about variety of experiences to help the various parts of your brain grow. Maybe getting better and better at chess does help the analytical part of your brain stay active (to an extent...), but it doesn't do much or anything for all sorts of other parts of the brain

Edited by Reisen

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.

Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)

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