Guest amber5885

The black shoe diaries. (Amber and Toby)

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Guest amber5885

I suggested that more than once, or like a welcome email that has a list of links that new users should read, mods who actually mod, and a little kindness toward people in regards to submissions and I was basically told to sit down and shut up.

 

Everytime I call attention to a problem I get an email from someone tellin me basically how I'm wrong and have no right.

 

The mods don't want to mod period, there is no control or filtering system and before you say anything about how it isn't possible, yes it is I'm a part of other forums that handle these same issues so well you hardly know they are issue all you need is a group of mods who collectively listen to complaints, actually do something to help fix those issues rather than sit around and feel superior because as far as I can tell thats all they do.


And if I get banned over saying so, that's fine.

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Wow you actually got emailed? That's a bit cloak and dagger. Would have thought it would be at least posted in the public domain so it could be debated.

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Guest Anonymous

As for if you see anything wrong with the forum as a whole - be the change you want to see. Or incite the change, if necessary. I don't see anything wrong really, the biggest problem I see is new users constantly asking questions I find blatantly ignorant. Honestly, as with most forums, I feel we need a giant "IF YOU'RE NEW AND HAVE QUESTIONS, CLICK HERE" on the top of the forum, linking to a huge list of all the questions new users ask and guides they need to read.

 

Or maybe just link to the search page.

 

To be frank, I think we're getting to that point. Though as always, Q&A is a huge portion of site activity and without it the site's life plunges a bit. I'll try and bring it up with staff. I know we used to have a green bar in regards to a survey? Something like that. This can be done.

 

I suggested that more than once, or like a welcome email that has a list of links that new users should read, mods who actually mod, and a little kindness toward people in regards to submissions and I was basically told to sit down and shut up.

 

The welcome email has been discussed before; I'll bring it up again. GAT strictness -- I'm very mixed on this. I think a general community led review of the GAT would be a good idea. Feedback for them. What we've liked and didn't like.

 

Everytime I call attention to a problem I get an email from someone tellin me basically how I'm wrong and have no right.

 

If you're getting harassed by a particular user, forward the emails (PMs?) to a moderator. I believe the site can track who sent emails. If it's different users each time, that's a bit more complicated and we'd have to figure out if you're unfortunately being controversial or if it's a group of users intentionally harassing you.

 

The mods don't want to mod period, there is no control or filtering system and before you say anything about how it isn't possible, yes it is I'm a part of other forums that handle these same issues so well you hardly know they are issue all you need is a group of mods who collectively listen to complaints, actually do something to help fix those issues rather than sit around and feel superior because as far as I can tell thats all they do.

 

I sure as hell don't enjoy moderating. I doubt anyone truly does. Being a normal member is the absolute best position to be in and I cannot emphasize that enough. I'll bring you to this quote from a good friend, for this quote is more or less how I strive to moderate:

 

[...] But if you're not the webmaster, all bets are off; you are a user and you should act like one. If the webmaster wants to give you special privileges and then tell you your opinion doesn't matter, you tell them your special privileges don't matter. It can be a difficult thing to wrap your mind around, and you might want to think, "But think of all the good I can do as a moderator!" But that's simply not how it works. You're a user. Users are the ones that can help out. If moderators can help out and more than users can, that's a bug. Moving threads, deleting posts, yelling at internet strangers, trying to reform them, "representing the site," these are all secondary afterthoughts to what's really happening in any given community:

 

People are enjoying each other's company.

 

That's really all there is to is. Every moment you forget that, you've fallen into authoritative delusion.

 

Unfortunately from what you've been saying, I've been failing at the most important part, enjoyment, and the very least I can do is apologize.

 

Comparing forum to forum only goes so far. It's the communities that matter. In ours, the older members want an anarchic system whereas our growing new members want a more friendly, structured environment. There's a clear divide growing, heck, just look at Cinema's and your followings. The situation is difficult, to say the least. I fear if we don't start to lean one way or the other we'll risk alienating both sides.

 

In regards to complaints -- I have asked you directly for feedback before, among things. Every single one of your reports have been carried out. Heck, 色の夢 was temp banned today and will be on a very short leash hereafter. However, when you take issues upon yourself to try and fix them, this tends to produce more or less a rift. Speaking one's mind produces problems and that idea applies to everyone. It feels good until you get that vulgar filled response and slowly but surely a hate-riddled cesspool emerges. You definitely have some rifts between other members, I can see them. This is where I cannot stress enough that you should report them or ask a moderator to talk with them. There's very few people on this site that I haven't dealt with in some way or haven't read up on them enough to get a general vibe.

 

Remember this is a website dedicated to creating sentient imaginary friends. Getting fed up and stressed out is plain silly. Let moderators deal with others. If you're feuding with another, tell a mod about the situation and we'll do our best to try and cool it down. If anything the user will have to redirect their anger at us instead of you. Get the stress off of yourself.

 

And if I get banned over saying so, that's fine.

 

What, get banned over having an opinion? That's ridiculous. No, this sort of critique is good.

 

 

It's about 1 AM, I wake up in ~4 hours. There's a lot left to soapbox about and the message is fairly unrefined, I apologize about this. I felt I needed to send out a quick little response making it clear that: Yes, we do care.

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I feel like I've commented on this PR many times, but not once has it ever been about Amber and Toby.

 

But I do agree with Derp about Q&A. It's annoying to get the same silly questions again and again and again, but the site has gone downhill over the years, and Q&A is part of what's keeping us alive.

 

A few months back I got sick of all of those old members talking about how this site was in "the good old days" before it degenerated into all this tulpasex and ponies. I went looking through old posts, intending to prove that there was more tulpasex and ponies in 2012 than there is now -- and I still think there was -- but while I was doing it, I saw that there was a lot more intelligent discussion and genuine research then too.

 

I think I've had this discussion in every internet community I've been a part of, and my motto is always "Be the change that you want to see in the community." I want to see people answering newbie questions and commenting on PRs, and more research. When I was new here, I did the first two. I don't have the time that I used to anymore, but I was glad to see Amber, Reisen, and Cinema doing it. Now two of them are gone and that makes me sad. But I'm still trying to "be the change" in my limited time by conducting my visualization study, and I recommend everyone else be the change as well.

 

GAT strictness -- I'm very mixed on this. I think a general community led review of the GAT would be a good idea. Feedback for them. What we've liked and didn't like.

 

I'll agree with that. "We're not a hugbox" as is always pointed out -- and we shouldn't be -- but neither should we take it to the opposite extreme. At least, in my humble opinion.

 

Comparing forum to forum only goes so far. It's the communities that matter. In ours, the older members want an anarchic system whereas our growing new members want a more friendly, structured environment. There's a clear divide growing, heck, just look at Cinema's and your followings. The situation is difficult, to say the least. I fear if we don't start to lean one way or the other we'll risk alienating both sides.

 

Well, comparing forums can say a lot too. I've joined two forums recently where I felt unwelcome before any other users even spoke to me. But as far as the forum goes, I think this place is great. I do think we have some real jerks here, but I can't say for sure that there's a better way to handle that.


"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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Guest amber5885

Derp as always I apriciate your response and to me you are one of the only mods I see taking an active interest in actually modding as witnessed by your response here when you didn't have to.

 

I do agree that the forum doesn't need to be a hug box but I honestly can't name a time where I have commented on a guide or tip and not been directly insulted. My grammar, my opinion or my general newness and while we're being honest sands was behind each comment as well as being the first to say shut up and get over it when his or her rudeness was called out.

 

I feel like the community would benifit from certain actions such as strict observation when first logging in, at least for a week to avoid repeate questions such as tulpa sex, romance, what is a tulpa, how do I tulpa and can I marry my tulpa.

 

I think also anything that involves in engaging in dangerous behavior should be deleted such as ougagi and Koomar or however you spell it. If someone is clearly on a downward spiral I think they should be warned and cut off. People idolize him and what he did and that's not good for them personally or for the community because outside of the community HE is the primary reason we are seen as a bunch of lunatics. (obviously the broneys count but that's neither here nor there.)

 

Those are my main issues, no one is keeping the GAT in check, I know they need to be strict and I get it but they don't need to be rude. It is possible to make a suggestion or offer constructive criticism without making the user who submitted it feel like a pile of shit and thats exactly what ends up happening.

 

If two general users were talking to each other like that there would be at least a warning and the mods/GAT should in no way be above that.

 

And no one is watching new users, deleting repeat posts or merging repeated regularly and it's cluttering up the QA with tons of BS.

 

The email thing should go through new member NEED a FAQ badly. We had one person come in and ask if they could make their tulpa a real life person......we need a basic FAQ.

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I think also anything that involves in engaging in dangerous behavior should be deleted such as ougagi and Koomar or however you spell it. If someone is clearly on a downward spiral I think they should be warned and cut off. People idolize him and what he did and that's not good for them personally or for the community because outside of the community HE is the primary reason we are seen as a bunch of lunatics.

 

And why do you think you have the right to decide what is dangerous for others? I do not idolize Koomer - he was incompetent and his mind wasn't stable enough to match the scale of his ambition, but at least he did have ambition. He tried something new - something that could test capability of his tulpa. And in that he succeeded. His story offers us both an inspiration and a warning, and we should learn from that. Learn of the possibilities our tulpas open and learn of the price we must pay for imprudence. Instead of that you want just to censor it, to stop anyone from learning and experimenting, from exploring the possibilities of tulpamancy - as if you somehow consider other tulpamancers beneath you. Like they are some sort of foolish children unfit to make decisions of their own, and they need parental control to guide them towards "proper" path. There is no freedom in such policy, only insecurity and bigotry, and it can only result in stagnation. IMO, of course. I don't want to sound hostile, but with the whole GAT, rules and mods there is enough control here, we don't need such censorship. Oh, and I apologize for breaking in, I just though the matters discussed are important enough to concern everyone.

 

Oh, and since a mod is here too: I am a humble nobody, I don't want to cause trouble, I'm not trolling and I'll now depart to avoid further argument, so no need to mod me.

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Guest amber5885

I never claimed anyone was beneath me but I don't think it's safe to condone dangerous behavior and self admittedly overdosing on drugs and alcohol just to see what happens is dangerous no matter how you cut it.

 

I'm not suggesting prudish behavior and Pg cencorship I'm suggesting guidelines and staying within those guidelines such as overt drug and alcohol useESPECIALLY with users running around that are minors may not be such a good idea.

 

People who are admittedly mentally I'll either denying paychiatric treatment or admittedly self medicating, also not safe.

 

There's nothing anyone can do to curb that behavior but if the community wants respect then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to combat the reputation we already have of being either psychotic or on drugs. If we want to be taken seriously as a scientific community like we claim to be then maybe activly condoning drug and alcohol use on the level that he took it might not be such a good idea.

 

I'm not suggesting going prudish but simply being safe about it. We have 13 and 14 year olds running around on this board and while we can't shelter people from everything we can actively try to set at least a decent example.

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Yeah I can kinda see where your coming from Amber- maybe a middle ground would be to remove parts that relate to those aspects that would violate what could be considered dangerously self-harming -

 

a lot of what koomer did was certainly ... Interesting but some of those parts could be removed and post replaced with some holding text such as "removed in accordance with board rules: reference or description of damaging substance abuse " or something? What do you think? Obviously this requires a lot of moderation to control though unless there is a reporting system,...

 

No easy fix for these issues me thinks.. Not one that will please everyone at any rate.

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Guest amber5885

Or we could have a place for people who are over 21 or are into drug and alcohol use to post so they dont have to censor themselves at all but maybe make it so that someone who's under 21 can't access that section of the forum.

 

But still if its obvious that someone is a danger to themselves they should be cut off. Like excessive drug and alcohol use, severe abuse of a tulpa (I haven't seen it but it could come up) Or admittedly cutting off social contact or engaging in things such as severe sleep deprivation, food deprivation, social deprivation... you get the idea.

 

I'm all for science and experimentation but we should hold true to the "within reason" standpoint.

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