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PsiQss' thought's relocation as a general forcing booster


PsiQss

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Hello everyone. Before I start, I'd like to say that this entire idea is based off of a guide I was reading last year: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-focus-concentration-removing-doubts-and-general-meditation-technique. (Much thanks to nice people on this forum who helped me find it) I hightly suggest reading it to have a good understanding of the thoughts in your own mind, because in my method, we'll be trying to manipulate them instead of simply silencing.

 

The lost guide

 

The guide itself was about a method of dealing with intrusive thoughts but we're going to reverse it here and use it to strengthen thoughts instead of killing shooting them down.

The idea is to feel the thoughts as they form and destroy them before they are strong enough to distract you. You want to feel your tulpa and you know how her thoughts are different from your own, intrusive thoughts. You want to focus on your tulpa but identify and annihilate any thought that feels different, before those thoughts even reach you.

 

The guide explained it with words (well, duh!). You think of a word and say it in your mindvoice. You have to get the idea of where is this word coming from. Now you cut it before you're done saying it. You keep repeating the word and cutting it shorter and shorter, until all that's left is the intention to say this word. It is important that you start the word with intention to say a complete word and then cut it, you shouldn't initially intend to say just half of the word!

Now after that exercise, once you get the idea you should be able to cut the intrusive thoughts right away, when you feel a "spark" of the thought. That's pretty much it.

 

I'd be really grateful if we could find the actual guide though. It was explained far better there but aside from that, I really feel like I'm using someone else's work here :/

But let's move on to using this method to our advantage. Once you get the idea of where the thought is coming from and how they feel, you should be able to (instead of cutting it short) focus on how those thoughts feel and "stimulate" them. You could use it to strenghten your tulpa's voice or even take it a step further and proceed to my relocation method.

 

How it works

 

And what does this actually do. As mentioned in the title, this method is a forcing booster, which means it is not much of a forcing technique of its own. Once you get the gist of it, it's supposed to take from one to five minutes before your actual forcing method. By relocating the thoughts (if done correctly) you're forcefully changing your beliefs so that you subconsciously know (not 'think') your tulpa is there and you can get the right mindset for forcing. If it doesn't go so well, you should at least get a better feel of your tulpa, which is always a bonus. But it's still experimental, so far I've only tested it on myself, so worst case scenario your head can explode, implode or both. You've been warned.

Origins of the relocation method

 

(If you want you can skip this paragraph and go to the next one right away as that's where most of the practical information is)

 

I have discovered an odd thing with my mind few years ago. I've been thinking of something related to my potential future, it was something along the lines of what my future job could be after a few years, doesn't really matter. What does matter though, is that it was something real. Something that could really happen. But this all felt like I didn't really believe it could. I knew that it was realistically possible, but I've been thinking of it as if it was not. And I didn't know why.

Few days later I've figured this out. I was about to have an exam of some sorts and I kind of imagined myself passing it with no problem, just visualized it to kind of let go my worries and to believe I can pass it. But it didn't feel right, I've been thinking of it, again, as if it wasn't going to happen. So I began analyzing this - the thought about the exam taking place felt real, I knew it WAS going to happen, while the thought about me passing it felt like a wish, fiction. It wasn't a difficult exam too, so I wasn't really worried about failing it. I didn't know why but even though both of those felt realistic, I've been thinking of them differently. I've decided to focus on actually learning for it though, and left those issues for the next day.

 

After the exam itself I came back to thinking of thoughts. And now, the thoughts about the exam and me passing it felt completely different - they were in the past now. I started messing around with thoughts, thinking of different things to find out how they 'feel'. And I've noticed that certain thoughts have something in common, they feel similarly real. I didn't know why but my mind seemed to be "categorizing" them.

 

The next time I've had a similar situation to the exam one (which btw I've passed, don't worry) I've tried to make myself believe more. I wondered why isn't that thought in this or that category, while it felt like it should be there? So I've tried to move it to that category myself. After few minutes of concentrating on those thoughts and analyzing them, I managed to make it feel right, to really make myself believe in this (can't remember what it particularly was though, lol).

 

So that's what I call the relocation, the process of reorganizing your mind, kind of, to make yourself think about stuff the way you want. From this day forth, I've been using this method whenever I wanted to really believe in something, I've even done some fun experiment like relocating my past memories to the future. Nothing big though, just recent events, but to my surprise, even though I knew those things happened already, I was expecting them to happen tomorrow.

 

I don't know why, but even though I've kind of been using this method for a while, only recently did I think of applying it to forcing. And here's how I did it.

 

Location of thoughts in the mind

 

Even before I started forcing, I've noticed that different types of thoughts have a different feel associated with them. I'll call it "mind location" for the sake of simplicity. So, the locations. For forcing purposes, we'll focus on a few basic ones.

 

The first "axis" is time. We have:

Past - those are mostly your memories, and generally everything that's related to the past, pretty straightforward.

Present - everything you think about your current life, including short time memories and plans for the upcoming days.

Future - those are mostly your plans for life and things that will, or could potentially happen one day.

 

The next "axis" is reality, things get a little tricky here:

Real - those are things that seem real to you. Things that you do every day and things that very much can happen. Or things that did actually happen.

Fiction - those are things that you consider "real" but you don't really believe that could happen. For example, thinking of winning million dollars on a lottery or even imagining yourself taking revenge on a bully if you don't really believe you could do it.

Fantasy - those are things that are not real, not possible and cannot happen in the world we know.

 

 

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(Much thanks to Twilight for formatting this for me :3)

 

The relocation

 

Before we proceed further, you'll have to pinpoint all the mind locations mentioned above, in your own mind. Think of something from a particular category and try to understand how it feels. Once you've got the gist of it, you can do a simple trick.

If you have problem with something related to your tulpa, for example vocality, try to imagine how would it be if you were actually able to clearly talk to them. This will probably be somewhere in Future Fiction or Future Fantasy area, depending on how you think of it. All you have to do now, is to forcefully "relocate" this thought to Present Reality. Again, this doesn't mean throwing the thought from right side of your brain to left. You have to understand the difference in how you think of reality and fiction, and simply "think it differently".

 

Don't misunderstand me, this won't instantly make your tulpa vocal. Nevertheless, it can significantly speed up the process. The purpose of this trick is to make you FEEL your tulpa being there and speaking/listening to you. Once you feel it, it should be much easier to actually hear them. It's like tuning in to correct wavelength to speak to them properly. It makes you feel exactly how it would feel if they were really there. And most importantly, it weakens your mind barrier that blocks their thoughts - your subconscious takes it as real, not a fantasy, so why would it filter it out, right?

 

This method has worked for me so far, extremely well. After the first try I felt like my tulpa was really sitting next to me. I felt it the same way I feel someone's presence when I close my eyes and I know they are still there. But I'd like you guys to try it out for yourself and share your results so we can all make sure it really works. I've had huge progress recently, so it probably does, at least to some degree.

 

Happy forcing, and I hope you find it at least slightly helpful. Remember to read alot of guided, combine them and find what works for you best!

 

Chart back-up:

 

Spoiler

image.png.7934cbed9e6b16440b022c34b712fde2.png

 

Edited by Ranger
Added image back-up

"Tulpamancy? It's a way of life.

More than one..."

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It may be symbolism, but it's helpful to me, at least. Using the "locations" of the mindvoice is helpful for us when practicing possession. There are times where we can get our mindvoices to "switch places" and in that state Sarah is able to be more "at the front of the mind", thought and processing wise. Maybe this will help someone else.

Host: Sakura

Tulpa: Sarah (began June 5th, 2014), Alyx (Began July 23rd, 2014)

Our shared tumblr

note: usually browsing on mobile, so cannot quote properly

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As I said, symbolism isn't a bad thing and it can be helpful in getting to the correct mindset you need. It's just something that doesn't fit the criteria of approvable guides, tips and resources due to its personal nature. Symbolism as an extra thing is fine, but the main point of the guide or tip shouldn't be shrouded in symbolism, as it makes it needlessly difficult and can make many miss the entire point. Helping people by giving them the idea behind certain actions and explaining it fully without smokes and mirrors is what will hopefully make people realize what exactly it is they are doing and why it works. In the long run, people would end up being more informed instead of using "magic" they don't understand to get rid of their problems. I'd say that's one of my goals with this whole GAT thing, making a collection of helpful stuff that is informative and goes a bit deeper than pretty personal symbolism. Something that helps them change the entire way they think.

 

As in your case, your symbolism makes the tupper more dominant so you accept them being able to take control easier. And they might do the same, too. It makes you perceive things differently and causes you to have the right mindset, one where the tulpa can take control and where you can step back, not being in control anymore. While it can help, I suggest you would wean yourself off this kind of method once you get the hang of the possession process. By relying too much on things like these, you might end up being dependant on them and that could end up hindering your process, as you now require them to be able to do it which might not always be possible. Think of them as training wheels. Once you get the idea and the correct mindset, you can do it by just wanting it to happen.

 

Even if it doesn't actually hurt you in any way, I'm going to guess that a non-symbolic way is going to at least be faster. Not faster as in learning it faster, but by doing it faster, you know? Symbolism tends to take a while to imagine and perceive, while by just knowing what to do and doing it without any added extra things will make you let go of control faster and the tupper take control faster. So once you get possession down using symbolism, you might want to practice a way where you don't use it for speed's sake, if nothing else. Probably ends up taking less effort too. But we're getting a bit off-topic now I think.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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I don't know, Sands. For me, it still is not symbolism. Maybe I'm just too bad at explaining things. I use symbolism and it works pretty well for me, but this definitely doesn't fall into my definition of it. I've been actually thinking whether it does or not, before posting this here. Yes, the "guide" might be a bit symbolistic because it seemed easier to explain it this way. But I don't consider the actual method symbolism. Still, I accept your vote. Although, I've decided to leave the post as is, because this method is more elaborate than just "imagine how would it be... "

 

Also, I'm wondering why are you denying things like "subconscious" or "mental barriers". Maybe you're just looking at this whole tulpa thing more scientifically, while I am a bit abstract person and that's why it's difficult for us to understand each other. And I don't want to fall again into an argument that's based just on a different point of view on the entire thing.

"Tulpamancy? It's a way of life.

More than one..."

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Also, I'm wondering why are you denying things like "subconscious" or "mental barriers". Maybe you're just looking at this whole tulpa thing more scientifically, while I am a bit abstract person and that's why it's difficult for us to understand each other. And I don't want to fall again into an argument that's based just on a different point of view on the entire thing.

 

 

I think maybe it's just a habit of his in the past, even if people took the word (subconscious) loosely for what goes beyond our awareness. I believe he mentioned how the word literally meant nothing because there's a lot of subjectivity under it, especially when people conflate metaphysical aspects to it that not everyone can comprehend. So he's most likely stating these things for the sake of telling you that there's going to be an audience that wouldn't get the whole "subconscious" thing, though I feel this audience might be too miniscule, or just an over-generalization.

 

I hardly think there's a non-symbolic, empirical, and consistent way of conceptualizing certain methods as yet. I figured that symbolism would be inevitable since this whole endeavor does involve a lot of imagination. If people are struggling to imagine and conceptualize these things, maybe it's just a sign for them to augment their cognition, especially when people have a lot of unorthodox ways of making breakthroughs.

 

Of course, he or anyone else can't really demand scientific explanations, otherwise it's just promoting pseudoscience, so I don't think it's him trying to get you to be scientific with a concept full of ad hoc claims/catered only for a concept that doesn't have any scholarly review, or scientific experimentation to back them up.

 

I feel some of the premises in his posts is suggesting you to not have methods that makes the host latch onto their tulpas, and become overly dependent on them. Kind of like finding a transient method, and knowing when to move on. It would be nice to give a suggestion when one could transition to a method which prevents the likelihood of them constraining themselves, and progress.

 

He may seem like he's being too harsh, but he's actually making some good points. Maybe a suggestion is to add a disclaimer to the guide submission of how one doesn't have to constrain themselves to this alone, and that they can mix around with others. It's mostly a backup done because there's some kind of person on the forum that may rely on a few guides, stick to them, not get progress, and then complain.

 

Although it should be implied that people should navigate more than a few guides, Sands is just providing a scenario where people are too indolent, or not flexible enough to look for those other options. Because once self-fulfilling prophecies with tulpas start becoming more isolated from further experimentation, the end result may back fire at times. In other words, when you start finding a system that ends up validating who your tulpa is, they may stick to it, and may not have a chance to progress because you and them would have it engrained in their minds that they're something they're really not.

 

Sands is actually just trying to give padding and protection to your submission to prevent something like that. Of course, I could be wrong in my interpretation of what Sands was trying to get at with you, so if I got something completely wrong there Sands, I apologize.

 

 

Also, I can take a few scans with the submission at a later time to see if I could provide the process behind the symbolism, and what it does to contribute to the end result (e.g. focusing on a certain region in your head, and using imagination and such to get that area of your brain as a way to communicate to your tulpa like with head pressures).

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Well, I'm not telling you to get rid of the symbolism or anything. Have it as an extra thing, definitely. I would just want you to write, I don't know, more? If you stripped all of the symbolism and this DnD-esque alignment table you created, what would you be left with? What is the core tip? It seems like you think it's different from the one I suggested, so now I'm left wondering what exactly it is that this thing is trying to tell me? It is very symbolism-heavy, I'm afraid. I'm not sure if I can try to explain why it is any better if you think this isn't symbolism, but this is making it pretty difficult for us to rate. Seen a couple of people look at this and just been all... Unsure about it. We're at that whole "well it's not bad, but..." situation here, where the but would be followed by "there's just so much symbolism".

 

If you could strip the symbolism and write the core tip at the start with this symbolism thing of your as an extra, I think you would make everyone just approve this easily. Right now it's difficult due to the amount of symbolism it has. I guess I could also ask you what you are trying to teach us with this thing. If you had to explain this with one sentence, could you do it? How many sentences does it take for you to explain it? How much fluff can you trim and still keep it the same? I want to know what is under the symbolism and I'm not sure if I got it right on my first try. Could you help me here?

 

As for word choices, yeah, Linkzelda did mention how I've said that the word "subconscious" basically means nothing these days due to how it has so many potential meanings. Just our unconscious thoughts or some magical being? I don't know, but I've seen both. Secondly, can we say that all of the unconscious stuff happening in our mind is one singular "the subsconsious"? What if there would be multiple ones? Would trying to affect just one of them affect them all? I think we don't know enough about the human mind to be able to say if there is a thing like this. Let's go super off-topic now because we all love talking about this kind of weird shit, right.

 

This far though, I'd say "the subconscious" itself is symbolism. Saying that we are affecting "the subconscious" works because we (well, not all of us but you know) believe in the existence of it and think we can influence this thing, which would in turn fix all of our problems just like that. Again, symbolism isn't bad and this "the subconscious" symbolism can be very strong if you believe it has more power than you, but does it truly exist? I don't think I could claim that. I can just wonder if it exists and give you my theory of why this stuff works. Seems to me like "the subconscious" symbolism can easily be cut if the person understands they have the power to change things themselves without involving any other "being" or "higher force" or something. You just need yourself and your own willpower. There are many mysteries in our minds. When does the unconscious become conscious? Where does this "the subconscious" end if it exists? Wow so deep.

 

Mental barrier meanwhile, is a word that gives more power to our issues that it deserves. By naming it a barrier, you make it a barrier. You make it seem unbreakable, something that stops you. Something that is stronger than you and you can't get past it unless you do something special. Hey, maybe some of our issues are like that. But our own thoughts tend to make things worse than they really are. Mental barrier as a word symbolizes issues we have with certain things. It seems like a barrier, so we think of it as a barrier. But maybe by thinking of it as something else, it will become a lesser thing, maybe it would become easier to fix and overcome when it's not an imposing barrier. Because honestly, it's not a barrier. Can't speak for heavily traumatized or mentally ill people, but you don't have to break down any barriers that are stopping you. Just look at your issue from another angle, maybe involve another person who can say the things you need to hear and see what you can do. The word people use to describe it might be scarier than it really is.

 

But saying we have "mental barriers" when we can't get some kind of tupper thing to work? I guess that could be effective symbolism when you want the people to break through that barrier and make them get the right mindset by thinking they beat that one thing that was holding them back... But I don't think the reality isn't that simple. It's not just one thing that you need to break through which will then somehow fix your problems just like that. It could be I guess, but eh. There most likely are many issues and getting the right mindset can be really difficult. Figuring out the issues and trying to find ways to solve them would be the important thing to do - and by that I mean the root of the issue and not just "I can't do x". What they need to know is why can't I do x and then what can I do to change that.

 

But that doesn't really have much to do with your guide. I guess I just wanted to see if I can make it easier for you to see where I'm coming from?

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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Hmm, I think I see it now. The problem is that things here don't have one consistent meaning and people perceive them differently, that's what makes it difficult to understand. And english not being my native language makes it difficult to explain what I really mean. This entire method is easily to be misunderstood and that's why I did the whole symbolistic explanation to try and avoid confusion. I don't think I'll be able to extract the 'actual' tip from it and squeeze it into few words. But I'll try to add something like that at the beginning. I know I won't be able to go without this explanation, but I think I could write what is this method supposed to do and how will it affect the forcing. Because it's not much of a forcing method itself, more like a trick to aid. That's why I call it a forcing 'booster' - it's not supposed to be used alone but to kind of help to get into the right mindset before the actual forcing.

 

As for the meaning of the words, by subconscious I meant the unconscious thoughts in general, not some ultimate being in the back of our mind. And by mental barrier - that thing that filters out your tulpa's words as unimportant thoughts. Many tulpas said they were struggling to "break through" that barrier in order to be heard, so I thought it won't be an issue to use that term here.

 

Thanks for helping me to improve it. I don't care too much if it gets approved and whatnot, but I want it to be understood by others. I'll try and do some edits later today.

"Tulpamancy? It's a way of life.

More than one..."

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Update: Added three paragraphs to better explain the general idea.

 

"The lost guide" - here I've tried to briefly explain the guide that has inspired me to experiment and as a result come up with this method.

 

"How it works" - in this paragraph I explain what is this method supposed to do and what kind of results you can expect from it.

 

"Origins..." - a story about my experience with this trick before, how did I come up with it and how I didn't think about using it for forcing.. I hope this will give you a better idea of this trick, and will let you understand my point of view.

"Tulpamancy? It's a way of life.

More than one..."

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We know that there's a sort of emotional feedback system in the body. Although the root of anger is in the brain, for example, we feel it in our face, chest, shoulders, arms, and hands. I've heard that it's impossible to become angry when your body is numbed. I've also heard that paraplegics experience less emotion post-injury than prior. This is not symbolism. If it were, some people would experience anger by relaxing their face and curling their toes. But no, pretty much everyone experiences anger by tensing the muscles in the upper body -- that's where we 'feel' the emotion.

 

There have been experiments on connecting different eye movements to thoughts. This isn't a reliable lie detector the way NLP people will tell you it is, but the idea is taken seriously outside of the NLP community.

 

The idea of moving a feeling a thought somewhere else is symbolism. And I'm not sure many people would feel the same thought in the same area. But the idea of a thought having a location is not symbolism, and it is a useful concept. Definitely not all symbolism, though I can see where Sands is coming from.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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I think that if this were symbolism then many people would not share PsiQss' schema of thought classification. I surveyed the general population (n=4; me plus some guys on the internet I asked just now) and 75% said that winning the lottery and going to the shops don't feel qualitatively different. Now, for me, they do, and that is immediately obvious to me. I think it's reasonable to assume that if the others had this schema then it would be obvious and not a matter of discovery; 'discovery' can in many cases mean creation.

 

So I think that your schema isn't something that a lot of people have, and that the parts of your guide dealing directly with it are symbolic in nature. Wait till I publish that in Nature.

 

 

Seriously though, I think the basis for this guide is expectation priming like Sands maybe suggests. In 'moving' the thought you attempt to believe "this thought is real and happening" (or wherever you move it to). Naturally you anticipate experiences corresponding to this belief. I know some people do this, and I know that everyone's beliefs work like that.

 

Secondarily, imagining a potential consequence - this is referred to as "visualising/actualising" in some places - can give you greater confidence in it and so on. I'm not sure how much of that effect is due to what I mentioned in the previous paragraph, though.

 

This place doesn't have a guide detailing these practices and I think that's a shame because it's effective for a lot of people, especially, I suspect, if they encounter it early on. I think you could generalise this post to a guide like that, and in that case I'd happily approve for Guides. As-is, I'd approve for Tips unless you have some evidence of good significance that this isn't symbolism and I'm making a mistake.

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Well, 'moving' the thoughts around, I agree, is symbolism. Relocating on the other hand (at least that's how I see it) is not necessarily 'moving'. It is getting an idea of the thought and re-creating it, basically thinking it again, but this time the same way you perceive reality. Think of it as copy-paste. I know, symbolism again, but I'm finding it hard to explain things in a non-symbolic way.

 

As for the vote, I consider this method of mine a trick, really. So if anything, it wouldn't feel right to put it in the guides section anyway. The way we perceive thoughts is very personal by definition, so I don't expect it to work the same for everyone, nor to find any evidence or anything.

"Tulpamancy? It's a way of life.

More than one..."

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