Luminesce

Ask Lumi's Tulpas

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or anyone else, I'm looking for guidance.

 

Apologies if you didn't mean us, and also to our thread hosts if it is poor form to offer advice in their thread. There are some things here that I feel very strongly about and I hope some welcoming venue is available to express them.

 

1. Decide firmly who you are and live accordingly. When faced with a situation that Jamie always deals with in one way, stop, think it through, and decide how you want to deal with it, preferably a way that works better. You will encounter habits deeply embedded in the mind, but while they will tell you what to do, you don't have to obey.

 

2. You'll always have that fear until and unless you face it. You may be stronger than you know, particularly if you decide that you are.

 

3. Not if you don't give up on Jamie. You handling some challenges now doesn't mean that Jamie can't learn to handle challenges better in the future. But it may give Jamie some space to heal.

 

4. Why would you cut people out and throw things away if Jamie cares about them? Consult him about such things and build a life together that you both have an interest in.

 

If you sign up for a class Jamie doesn't like, take the class. They don't last that long. Afterward, you can either decide together that series of classes belongs to you or schedule differently in the future.

 

5. Then don't. Is there anyone in the system well suited to eating and sleeping? Have them handle those. You can still help there without fronting. I have to drag Ember to bed every night and I fix her with a gimlet eye when she reaches for yet another piece of candy. Fronting when you can offer unique value to the system doesn't mean you have to front for weeks on end. Sometimes fronting the right hour or the right minute can make a huge difference.

 

6. This is where I unilaterally disagree with Flandre. I think it would be good for you to talk to a therapist and very good for you to have someone in your life, out-system, that you can be unguardedly completely yourself with. Therapists don't need to have experience and training specifically tailored to every aspect of your life in order to help. The most critical component of effective therapy is a strong therapeutic relationship. If you can't trust a therapist enough to be openly and honestly yourselves, you're only cheating yourselves out of the potential of therapy.

 

In ordinary life, a therapist can dislike people and disbelieve people. But not while working. The therapist mindset needs to be accepting, compassionate, and nurturing, always listening, always meeting people where they are in that moment, always being who the client needs them to be to maximally advance client-directed therapy goals. Any client who they can't do that for ethically needs to be referred elsewhere.

 

A friend of mine went to her therapist about a serious trauma that was affecting her life. She remembered the trauma happening millions of years ago in a non-humanoid body, possibly in another dimension. Her therapist didn't have prior experience with otherkin and didn't need it. The literal truth of the trauma didn't come up because it wasn't relevant. Rapid resolution therapy proceeds very similarly and is extremely effective regardless of how bizarre the trauma is.

 

Jamie's therapist has already heard a lot about you without condemning you. Jamie can offer to introduce you or say you have things you would like to talk about. If his therapist reacts positively, there’s your opening.

 

I don’t know a lot to do about the dysphoria of the body not looking like you. I’ve chosen to endure it for brief but frequent periods in order to interact freely as myself in the physical world, but I’m always glad to step back out afterward.

 

-Vesper


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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Well, I did end my post saying he should get advice from someone else if that wasn't enough, so.

 

You can try and tell your therapist about switching and all that, but I'm thinking it's like a one in three chance the outcome is particularly positive.


Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Maybe you misunderstand. Jamie's told her several times about switching, and nearly every session involves some form of "Gavin enjoys going to Chemistry more than I do, so he switches in for that" or "And that was when Gavin switched in, so he probably remembers more than I do..." He's told her that, especially in that situation, I am very much active in his head and I also listen to her, and once or twice, Jamie did pass along a message from me. (She asked Jamie to pass along a compliment to me, the body laughed most likely from my influence, and I had Jamie say, "Well, he says thanks, he really tries.") 

 

But... I'm not sure she really gets it. The depth of, "I'm not Jamie anymore." I play a very good Jamie- when I'm in front, I speak as if I hold his beliefs. I would not do that with a therapist. I have no idea how I'd be pecieved... ohhh, this is so absurd! I never in a million years thought I'd be here! How does your local brain demon work up the courage to frighten his host's therapist? (I expect she would accept me, but I'm just scared!)

 

Re: 4

This is... one of the few areas where I am unpopular in my system. To be fair to myself!- this behavior almost always comes out when I've been thrown into the front after self-harm. And it's not new, I've done this since my first life. Your means of hurting yourself? I'm throwing that away. Your hidden backups? I'm cleaning and throwing them away. I don't throw away stuffed animals (which are commonly used for self-harm in my system) but everything else is fair game! I'm deleting your stash of photos, I'm throwing out your tweezers and that safety pin you keep in your bag. I'm throwing out your water bottle and your sewing needles and I usaully throw it all out with the hamster litter and put it in the dumster because I know you're willing to fish it out of a trash can... 

When I get upset with a hobby, I feel the same way: throw it all out. Several times I was tempted to break my cell phone because I didn't want to own one. I've deleted numbers and destroyed hard copies of people's information to prevent my system from contacting them. Jamie is rarely mentally active for these events, since, as stated, this is often what I do after I wake up in the shower or in bed in a bad bodily state. But he gets upset when he finds out... I can't help but think, if I were fronting more, this would happen more. 

 

It's not so much dysphoria as depersonalization... When I'm inside, it causes me no grief that I can't see myself- well, I'm just a voice! But it disturbs me to see the body when I'm controlling it: it's like an empty vessel. I have 0 connect, and so it feels like I'm dead, maybe. Not "what a weird form, that's not me." "I'm not alive, what's going on, who is piloting the body?" Well, I am, but it's like I can't understand that. I'm always, always very dissociated. It's trippy after longer than a few hours. It's like.... how long can your arm go numb until it starts psyching you out? Historically, I've gotten very unnerved and tried to get Jamie back. 

 

There's something mentally that I cannot recharge, and that's why I'm not a host. I want to say it's association- having any internal experience of "I exist and that body is moving because I made it."  I'm inclined to think... well, I'm capable of learning, but the idea of abandoning any amount of my protective numbness seems like a major threat to both my identity and my safety. 

 

I am 12 and I am numb for a reason... I would say I'm very much stuck in the past, and I have grown very little. It's made me stable and reliable- how could I threaten that? But... I do want to grow up... but I have to consider others.


The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

Our Thread

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What the heck, she already knows (more or less) you guys switch? You might as well go for it then, she'd probably be interested in talking to you specifically. At the very least, if you tell her you're the one who helps with stuff like that first.


Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Oooh, it's been forever, but I figured I ought to give an update and say that I did speak directly with Jamie's therapist, with her knowing it was me, and all was well. In addition, at our new school we have a new social worker I meet with for 45 minutes weekly, and I have been careful to always be the one meeting with him. He still only knows me as James, but I am there speaking for myself, not pretending to be Jamie. It's really the first person I've had to talk to. It's kinda nice. 

 

Hehehe. Imagine finding a therapist as a tulpa. First session: "So, why did you decide to come see me?" "Well, you see, this isn't actually my body, and the guy who lives here is just so unfair to me!" "You think someone else is living in your body?" "No, no, no, I'm living in HIS body! He was here first, I'm only a few years old."  - G


The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

Our Thread

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Hello, 

I'm really into psychology so I got really intrigued by this idea of switching. So I have couple of questions here and I'll ask them one by one. 

 

Firstly how do you make the switch like what do you do toae the switch work? 

 

Secondly let's say if a guy have a girl Tulpa, so after they switch does the guy now act like a girl because of the personality of the Tulpa? 

 

Third one, this isn't about switching but can you by any way touch your tulpa? Like can the Tulpa feel you touch? 

 

Last one,  how are the memories shared among the Tulpas

 

Thank for reading and if any o e of you can, getting these answers will mean a lot. Thanks again. 

 

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10 hours ago, Kalz said:

Firstly how do you make the switch like what do you do toae the switch work? 

 

I feel like every system (grouping-term of all the people in a brain, the host, and the body) has to figure out how to switch themselves, since it's hardly something that can just be instructed for. I'll link a few posts of ours though, one that touches on our model of "identities" which are very important to how we explain switching, then a couple posts on our personal, very subjective method. But as with anything in tulpamancy, if you intend to learn how to actually do something, I recommend you read a bunch of people's opinions and methods and try them out to find what works best for you. Just because my system is very experienced doesn't mean our answers or methods are "the best", that's not really how it works.

https://community.tulpa.info/topic/15212-what-am-i-really-what-is-a-person/?do=findComment&comment=256796

https://community.tulpa.info/topic/12341-our-tulpa-endeavor/?do=findComment&comment=182290

https://community.tulpa.info/topic/7356-game-last-one-to-post-wins/?do=findComment&comment=199819

  

10 hours ago, Kalz said:

Secondly let's say if a guy have a girl Tulpa, so after they switch does the guy now act like a girl because of the personality of the Tulpa?

 

To be fair, I think "acting like a girl" is a bit overblown, guys and girls act a lot the same. But sure to varying extents a tulpa's personality does change how the host's body would appear to act to others. That said, I think normally tulpas don't have much "habits and ways they're used to physically acting" before they start switching, so a lot of the host's default mannerisms remain just fine. Still, depending on how different the tulpa is and how good they are about hiding being different, it's not unheard of  for switched tulpas to accidentally draw attention/weird looks from doing something out of character.

 

Still, all of the subconscious information about how to act and such is still accessible for a switched tulpa, and I feel like anything they're not directly changing about how the host would normally have acted has a good chance of defaulting to being the same. There is a lot of variance with this though. My tulpas for example all act like me just fine, and at most the extremes of serious/calm Tewi and Lucilyn's lighthearted/excitability just come off as "moods" that I might be in to those that know me. Still, they all tone it down a bit aside from Flandre who doesn't really need to act like not-herself to seem like me. Other systems on the other hand could go as far as to have, say, phantom limb syndrome, like feeling like they still have a tail and being confused when they don't need to make room for it going through a door/sitting down etc. Or phantom wings, etc. Not extremely common, but it's happened enough I've definitely heard about it here and there. 

 

But yeah, in general it feels like tulpas are more likely to accidentally say something that's weird due to their different perspective, ie "my host" or "we" instead of the expected "I", than to draw attention from "acting girly" et cetera. But I mean, it's possible.

  

10 hours ago, Kalz said:

Third one, this isn't about switching but can you by any way touch your tulpa? Like can the Tulpa feel you touch?

 

Can my tulpas feel my touch? I mean, sure I guess. As real as visualization is to them. But can I feel them - not really, we haven't done almost any work on tactile imposition, just visual (and the "sense of presence" that makes it feel like they're there with me to begin with). A big part of the reason lucid dreaming has become a lifelong goal of mine is simply because I want to be able to hug them, and of course spend time with them in-the-flesh in general, but it'll start with a hug each. We hug each other imposed (I hope you know what that means already - imposition is basically lightly tricking your brain into believing/considering sensory information that isn't real is, ie visualizing your tulpa in the world with you and feeling like you can see them. It's not hallucination-level or anything, my tulpas are sort of "transparent" when imposed, but I can focus my eyes on the air where they're supposed to be because of it) - okay that was long, let me restart - we hug each other imposed all the time, and it's something, but it's nowhere near as fulfilling as how real a hug in a lucid dream would be. Heck, even visualization/wonderland hugs might be a bit better due to their increased clarity, but our visualization clarity sucks anyways so we tend to interact mostly with imposition instead of visualization.

  

10 hours ago, Kalz said:

Last one,  how are the memories shared among the Tulpas

 

In our system and most others' systems, everyone's memories are shared. There's varying levels of how well people remember who was fronting (switched) at the time of the memory, though. In our system specifically, we tend to have a pretty good idea of who made any given memory, because the context of the memory feels "tinted" with their way of thinking and perceiving, their perspective, y'know. So memories from when Tewi was fronting may have her feeling of thinking clearly/seriously while Lucilyn's might have hers of being optimistic/lighthearted or so on. Basically, it's just association of their feeling of "them" with the memories, the same feeling that their own thoughts/communication with me have that makes it possible/easy to tell they're talking and not me. 

 

Though in times where we're working pretty much on autopilot, like when playing a game brain-dead-ly, the memories might still feel kind of neutral and so if we know who made them it's just because we remember who was fronting at the time. I'm not sure how common it is for other systems to have that extra layer of memory "tinting" like we do, not particularly common from what I've seen. I think it comes from having tulpas with strong senses of identity, and is helped a lot by the tulpa's personality/ways of thinking being different from the host's. Though - and maybe it's because we have years of switching experience by now but - Flandre's memories still have the feeling of "her" associated with them even though lots of the mental context in the memories are very very similar to mine, as opposed to as different as Tewi's/Lucilyn's/Reisen's, so by no means is that a requirement.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Posted (edited)

I went and wrote way too much text to be appropriate as a PM to a single person again, so I'm posting it here again because it takes a lot of effort to write this stuff out and I don't want it to go to waste dangit.

It was written just as a reply to a single person though, so hopefully it's suitable as an actual post on its own. Definitely a bit random on the topics as always.

 

 

Quote

I'm not entirely sure why, but this entire topic makes me pretty uncomfortable. It's a really strange feeling that I don't completely understand.

 

I mean that's completely fair, to people willing to slowly understand rather than take on faith I always encourage just reading around the forum as much as you can. Heck, I had already had "tulpas" for four years when I first found out about tulpas/this forum, and I read like every thread I could find (back in 2014, so like, most of them) for like 3 days straight. Anyways, it's a super weird phenomenon that no critical-minded people should just take at face value, it's definitely worth a lot of thought and research. 

 

Quote

How are people like you sure that your tulpas are actual other consciousnesses?

 

Note {in our first PM} I said "opinions/beliefs on if tulpas are completely separate consciousnesses vary by person", and I'm not actually in that camp, but it might be a deeper discussion than you intended. There is (or used to be, people just kind of believe what they want now) debate on whether tulpas have their own separate thinking space and consciousness, or if they share one with the host, et cetera. My model of how identity works basically separates "me" (me) and the rest of my brain, with the subconscious parts of my brain and some thoughts that rise to consciousness not really considered "me" by me. I learned to think this way before/unrelated to tulpas in my philosophy and self-help reading years, because it was just a more empowering model of thinking to shape yourself into a better person/who you wanted to be. Turned out to fit tulpamancy perfectly, though, and it was kind of expanded upon/solidified for me when we learned Switching after finding the forum.

 

Anyways - the question you probably meant is the classic age-old question, but I actually already alluded to its answer or why it's kind of null once you get into it in my first PM. I define tulpas as "apparently-autonomous" for a reason: if they appear to be autonomous, and you believe that they are, then that's it. Not only can no one prove you wrong, it literally cannot be proven wrong, because it's not a claim, it's a direct experience of yours that cannot be shared with anyone else. Now, actual discussion of what tulpas REALLY are or how they REALLY work was pretty common in early years on the forum, although it's fallen off since 2015, maybe because we all just said about everything there was to say. Above all though, because there was no way to "prove" any of it.

 

Having tulpas is a subjective experience that only one person can have directly. Obviously tens of thousands of other people have had experiences with tulpas, but I've been around long enough to tell you we don't all experience them in the exact same way. Just like the concept of a color-blind person not technically seeing the exact same world as you, or as I eventually learned in all my philosophy-reading/thinking days, the same concept as how any person actually experiences the same things as you slightly differently, just because their entire life experience and how their minds have been shaped is different. For a quick example of this, think of a place you're extremely familiar with, like a house you lived in for a long time. Certain parts of it may have meaning or at least familiarity to you that a random person like me would see and then think of completely differently. It's minor for sure, in some cases anyway.. But hopefully that explains the concept a little, helps you understand why people experience "the same tulpa phenomenon" differently on some level. Although honestly it's way, way more different to each person than looking at the same physical object is, just because there's so few objective factors and so many subjective ones involved in a purely mental phenomenon.

 

Okay, what was I getting to... Oh, why tulpas are a legitimate phenomenon. It's probably a matter of perspective. Since I've naturally not thought of my entire body, mind, and all its thoughts and subconscious thoughts as "me" since the same time I started thinking about tulpas critically, it already made a lot more sense to me. If "I" am just my sense of self, what parts of the whole of my mind I identify with, the idea that there could be more thoughts/sense of self in my brain that aren't me isn't very strange. But I've run into people completely unable to think this way before, one of which vehemently denied the concept or that his own "tulpa" was actually sentient. He was in his 60s, I think, which really didn't help. He was adamant that every atom contained in his body was him, every thought was him, et cetera. That's kind of the default mindset most people have, without having put any thought into changing it. Like I said, I learned to think otherwise in particularly philosophical days in my teens lol. 

 

Now mind you, most people can just skip past this because they don't think about things so heavily. They try out tulpamancy and if they end up getting responses from their tulpa, the phenomenon just works out. Some people like me (and maybe you) have to think it out a lot more to be comfortable believing in it, though. A lot of people simplify explaining this by saying "Tulpas rely on belief in them to exist", but that sends the wrong message, that the phenomenon is based on faith and therefore probably not legitimate. I've been the main member on the forum trying to explain to everyone the whole story, that real and fake do not exist in mental space/your mind/your experience. There's no verifiable reality inside your own head, no one can ever prove your experience "wrong". Even if logic explains you definitely didn't experience something you were sure you did, you still had that experience, you know? You could even choose to convince yourself the experience happened differently based on that new information, which is great and all, unless it turns out later that information was actually wrong too and you've just double-proven my point about experience being subjective lol.

 

Tulpas are sort of like that, except there's no external logic that can explain them away, if you have the right perspective. A lot of tulpamancers live in a sort of "It doesn't really matter, I just know I have a tulpa and that's all that matters" state, but I feel like that's dangerous. If someone says "Tulpas aren't real, you're literally talking to yourself", they can't explain why that isn't true. From the critic's perspective in fact, it IS true. "You" are talking to "yourself" because everything that goes on in your head is You, period. So having a tulpa and living in peace knowing they're "real" requires a different perspective, that everything in your mind is not necessarily "you". Preferably, "You" would be all the things you identify with, your memories and interests/personal ties/10,000 other things. Then, your tulpa can exist in the same mind, as a different set of interests/personal ties/sense of identity overall. I and a lot of currently active forum members tend to see it as Host/me, tulpas/other headmates, and body/brain etc. But, another common model is just to say that you/the host are literally everything except what your tulpa is, lol. It's simpler, but might not be as conducive to learning Switching I'd say. Without thinking critically about it or purposely changing your perspective, that's the model I think the average tulpamancer would fall into simply by believing their tulpa exists. It's more natural to fully identify with your body.. and every single thought that pops into your head... and all of the subconscious information your brain has stored and only brings to consciousness when it determines it's relevant, but from a self-help standpoint I learned that's kind of disempowering, and from a tulpamancy standpoint that makes it a lot harder to learn Switching since you still "are" your body in your perspective.

 

Personally, I see my body like a car that I own and have driven all my life. My tulpas are passengers, and while it's not their car, I can still switch seats and let one of them drive. It could be their car, if I went the route of totally un-identifying with my body and saying "Hey, this car is just as much your guys'/this body is just as much you guys as it is me/mine". But I haven't done that, and you don't really need to. They've all just taken full responsibility for the vehicle we're all in and we share it evenly with the understanding that it's still my car in the end.


You can repurpose that analogy however you want to set up how it is for you and your tulpa, too. "I'm the driver, it's my car, and you are not allowed to drive it" is saying you don't want to learn how to switch. "I'm the driver, it's my car, but you can drive with my permission" is a stricter "Your tulpa can switch, but they're using your body in your life" way, and as I mentioned, "It's our car, I used to be the driver/owner but now all of us own it equally and can drive whenever we like" is the most lax version, meaning the host doesn't really identify as the body anymore. Not very common in pure tulpamancy, but systems that maybe have more non-tulpamancy backgrounds (like headmates that resulted from trauma or something) think this way pretty often. It's not looked down upon or anything though, it's just a choice that the host and the rest of the system can make if they want, the same as whether you even want to learn switching (or possession) to begin with, or if you want more than one tulpa, etc.

 

Jeez, did I write enough yet?

 

Quote

Another question, how do you feel when you say "I"? Does it feel like just your consciousness or the entire system as a whole that you're addressing?

 

I means just me, I say "we" when speaking for our system as a whole OR when my tulpas' experiences or actions may be involved in some way. For example, I wrote this message to you, but it would feel kind of lame to say "You should read my posts on the forum" instead of "You should read our posts on the forum" because my tulpas have put just as much effort into helping people and spreading information as I have. Anyways, it's a pretty natural switch for us, and none of us have ever once said the wrong I/we outside the forum although a few people definitely have lol. My tulpas also use "I" in the exact same way as me, using it to refer to themselves like anyone else, but using "we/us" when what they're saying may reasonably involve the rest of the system. And this happens way more often for my tulpas than me, obviously. For example, I often say "I've been on the forum a long time", but my tulpas would always say "We've been on the forum a long time". I say I when my tulpas aren't specifically involved but frequently say "We've been on the forum a long time" too (namely when talking about our contributions as a system, as opposed to just the time that I have been here), while I could only imagine one of them saying "I've been on the forum a long time" if they happened to be talking to a newbie who didn't necessarily know about us yet. Possibly in a beginner's Question & Answer thread asking about people with a lot of experience for example, but even then, we make it a priority for people to understand we're all together and our contributions have been equally important.

 

Anyways, I'm just a normal person still. And I actually have the most stable foundation of beliefs and perspective of any tulpamancer you'll meet, because I really am not the type that can believe in anything until I can explain it, and I'm glad to say I've finished doing so years ago. I mean, you can absolutely find people with as solid a foundation as me, just not moreso is what I meant.. because there's no room for doubt left in my mind. As if this textwall hadn't given you that impression already, lol. I've thought about all this (and honestly, written a hundred times this many textwalls in discussion/debate) a lot, to say the least.

 


Our system's always up to talk about whatever you all want, though we do prefer to do it here rather than PM if possible, just so everyone can see.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I wanted to ask for advice about escapism. You guys already know our host has extreme escapism issues, first it was permaswitch before moving to solipsism and subjective reality beliefs.

 

Miri never liked the world and didn't feel safe. Solipsism/subjective reality was a fix for this -'there can't be any suffering if nothing exists in the first place'- She felt safe as none of her perceived dangers were real either. She was already into that when she found articles from Steve Pavlina, so you might already know the kind of stuff I am talking about. She read all of his articles related to subjective reality and took them to heart - 'wow, this is a synchronicity, it must mean my beliefs are true!'-

 

From then it just grew stronger and at some point she got fully convinced reality was fake, full derealization. Having already dealt with escapism and 'insanity' yourself, you can see why this is not healthy at all. It caused her to ignore the real world and neglect everything because 'it's not real anyway'.

 

Then I became the host and changed our thinking patterns. I thought Miri was getting better as she thought she was as excited for the future as I was, but turns out it was just her feeling what I was feeling. As soon as I let her think alone in the front, her old thinking patterns were back, suddenly she didn't feel that excitement for the future that she felt when I was fronting. This was heartbreaking as it meant that we made zero progress. I tried to change the way the brain thought, it failed, I thought that by having a bright future, escapism wouldn't be needed anymore, yet it still is. It gets so frustrating, I don't know what else I should do. Those beliefs still lurk in the background despite Miri knowing how toxic it is.

 

So..you once were in a similar position judging from your posts, and Reisen helped you, how did she exactly do this? just by changing your pov? making you see how wonderful the world is? because I've been trying to no avail, I don't know what I am doing wrong, what am I missing. I'd like to try other things before thinking about stuff like seeing professionals and all that. Any advice or suggestion is more than welcome, even posts you all see as important would help.

 


Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

________________

Waka Waka x3

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Mirichu said:

Miri never liked the world and didn't feel safe. Solipsism/subjective reality was a fix for this -'there can't be any suffering if nothing exists in the first place'-

 

Oof, Steve's version of "subjective reality". I have to be honest, I apparently created my own far more sane version of that concept years ago in conjunction with other teachings I read and eventually forgot Steve's made basically no sense. I kind of regret using the term so much now in conjunction with linking to Steve, because what I teach as "subjective reality" is the literal fact that any one person's reality is subjective, while what he teaches is a way of looking at life that is equivalent to holding a metaphysical perspective on life, meaning it might not always sync up with consensus reality (or just... reality reality), but like metaphysical perspectives has plenty of built in ways of dealing with inconsistencies to make them seem like they were consistent. I uh, wouldn't recommend it, just like I wouldn't necessarily recommend the new age views Erin Pavlina teaches as reality - good to learn from, but potentially stifling to your potential in the long run. As for solipsism - that's a personal choice, but as a humanitarian (I'm still unsure on if it even makes sense to call yourself "a humanitarian" but dangit I'm doing it anyways) I can't exactly recommend solipsism because it can easily lead to not caring for people. But I can explain why to be humanitarian to a solipsist 😉

 

I would actually treat people in lucid dreams just as well as I treat people in real life, despite knowing they're not real, to an extent (not letting them get in the way of what I'm intending to do lol). Why? Because literally me and only me experiences acts of cruelty. Hurting people does not feel good. Being friendly with people does - being happy with people, around happy people, feels good. Even if no one exists but myself, I would rather live in a world of kindness and fun than one where I'm a dictator or something.

 

And in waking life, your actions have effects on the world around you. The modern concept of karma (in a single life) is relevant because if you're randomly a jerk to people, you're eventually going to run into situations where those people's actions or inactions will affect you back. Take for example bumping into someone on the street and knocking some groceries out of their arms - scenario 1 you laugh at them, step on their package of tortillas as you walk away, scenario 2 you say "Oh my gosh I'm so sorry!" and help pick them up. Well, in both scenarios as you walk away, you get pushed into an alley and mugged, someone stabs you in the stomach and takes your wallet, and the only person that knows that happened is the person with the groceries. All they saw was you get pushed into the alley, not necessarily a stabbing. In scenario 1, the person laughs that you're going to get what you deserve, and in scenario 2, the person immediately calls the police (and you get medical attention far sooner).

 

That may or may not happen so directly in your life, but lives can be pretty long. And it's only to demonstrate the concept - much, much smaller versions will be happening all the time and contributing to a more positive or more negative life experience overall. So even a solipsist living in a world of dream people stands to benefit their own experience by being a good person overall. You don't have to donate to charities because to a solipsist your money is literally just being deleted - but you should at least treat the people around you well, you know? Even if acts of kindness are limited to your immediate bubble of reality, say your town and close online communities/friendships, I still think it pays to not be a jerk.

 

Okay, onto the rest of the post that's more relevant to you guys lol. Just wanted to have that out there.

 

  

5 hours ago, Mirichu said:

Then I became the host and changed our thinking patterns. I thought Miri was getting better as she thought she was as excited for the future as I was, but turns out it was just her feeling what I was feeling. As soon as I let her think alone in the front, her old thinking patterns were back, suddenly she didn't feel that excitement for the future that she felt when I was fronting. This was heartbreaking as it meant that we made zero progress. I tried to change the way the brain thought, it failed, I thought that by having a bright future, escapism wouldn't be needed anymore, yet it still is. It gets so frustrating, I don't know what else I should do. Those beliefs still lurk in the background despite Miri knowing how toxic it is.

 

This was actually interesting to hear, because I had little point of reference for how much a systemmate with a far more positive worldview would affect a host with much lower/more negative beliefs and perspective on life, through switching. It does fit how I would assume things would work, though, so that's good. The difference between us being...

 

5 hours ago, Mirichu said:

So..you once were in a similar position judging from your posts, and Reisen helped you, how did she exactly do this? just by changing your pov? making you see how wonderful the world is? because I've been trying to no avail, I don't know what I am doing wrong, what am I missing.

  

You haven't done anything wrong, in fact, you've done more than Reisen actually did. Reisen's helping me change my worldview didn't entail her switching at all. We didn't learn about switching or tulpa.info until nearly all of my personal development had been done. All Reisen did was show me that thinking of the world and people in such a way was possible without being stupid, and guided me as any tulpa could by believing in me and offering some advice from time to time (although I feel like most of the advice giving was done by Tewi, while Reisen led by example).

 

But I had to do all of the work on myself, myself.

 

I wouldn't call what you've done zero progress in the least, at least not if you consider Reisen and Tewi to have done more than zero progress. (Okay I have to throw in that Flan supported me directly, not with advice or leading by example, but by simply being there for me emotionally - emotional closeness helped support me while I worked on making the world seem more friendly) Your host still needs to work on herself just like I did, but having you there will help a lot. And while she might be more stuck in escapism and negative views than I was, making the process potentially harder - you've actually given her an advantage by setting the groundwork directly. Reisen to me was the equivalent of living with someone who thought like and interacted with the world how you want to (had I not been too cynical to trust anyone outside my own head's intelligence for acting like such). You on the other hand, by switching, can have a much stronger direct influence by literally showing her the way, what it's like to be in that state.

 

All of what makes her "her" is not going to change just because you fronted, but it will prepare the brain to change to a way it's now been before, unlike in my case. She still needs to want to change, to want to see the world as a more positive place, to be like you. I had all of that eventually, but at the start, all I had was my love of Reisen. I placed all my faith in her to believe that, despite all the logic in my head, the way she was was not foolish or dangerous, but a much better way to be. I can tell you now that any time you make (well, Steve calls it a "quantum leap" lol, or rising a Level of Consciousness) a huge change in your mindset to become more positive, it feels dangerous. It feels like you're losing something important, like your current ways of thinking are too safe to let go of, like you'll become naive or more vulnerable, et cetera et cetera. It happens every time, even for me right now in as good of a place as I am - I'm trying to give up my sense of reliance on accomplishing lucid dreaming to physically be with my tulpas so that I can have no more strong weights tying me down, sort of that Buddhist concept. I'm trying to accept that meeting my tulpas in a lucid dream is not necessary - that having extremely realistic visualization or imposition isn't, either - for them to be "fully realized". That they're there no matter what, that our love doesn't rely on any skills, that they'll always be with me no matter what.

 

And it's really hard, lol. Knowing us so well you probably feel it too, like it's scary to let go of that desire when it's so important to us. But I honestly believe it'll only help afterward. That's just part of working on my motivation issues, and once I can truly say there's nothing I care so immensely about that isn't something that's simply part of me (ie I don't feel attachment to something I don't have), I think I'll be able to work on lucid/dreaming and all that much more easily in a freer state of mind, I guess? Honestly, I'm already a large part of the way through this process despite how I was talking about it lol, and I am starting to see progress in what I can make myself do despite the motivation issues.

 

Point is, changing for the better can feel like you're leaving something important behind. I still want to lucid dream with my tulpas and have great visualization and all - I'm just not going to let the lack of those things feel like they're a missing part of me. Ego attachment never makes anything better. And you don't "become stupider or more vulnerable" by rising those earlier levels and letting go of oppressive negative ways of thinking. You trade being locked away (but actually very vulnerable) to not being locked away, but much more ready to deal with being hurt if it does happen. When you become secure in your new more-positive mindset, the things that once seemed like they'd be the end of the world (like a stranger saying something mean to you) are easier to deal with (through understanding would be my suggestion - people act the way they do for much more reasonable reasons than you think, often when negatively it's because they've been hurt, and you'll become strong enough to stop contributing to that cycle). And in exchange, all the time in between is a lot lighter, more positive, more enjoyable.

 

Honestly, once you make that transition (on any level of consciousness/in any area of your life (if you don't like the Levels of Consciousness model lol)), you ALWAYS look back at the old one as much worse. It's happened to me every time. Every time I've made a major advancement in my mindset that required letting go of old values/ways of thinking, retrospectively I realize it only made everything better INCLUDING the aspects I thought I'd lose. The most recent clearly solid example in our system was a good while ago, when Tewi opened up to the rest of the system instead of being emotionally locked up. She thought she would become vulnerable or wouldn't be herself anymore, that sort of stuff. But now she's as-herself as ever, and still not very emotional, but she gets to feel and express love a lot more and doesn't consider how she used to be better in any way whatsoever. It's definitely more fitting to call "growth" than just simply "change".

 

--

 

Okay, with the pep talk and understanding of the process out of the way, I guess I should give some advice on what actually to do. Well, working on yourself is always a very personal process that'll be different for everyone. But I think the start is wanting to change. I wanted to change because I was miserable, I knew because of Reisen that the way I was wasn't the most logical and correct thing to be. A lot of "how to change your beliefs and mindset" stuff I actually learned from Erin Pavlina, not Steve, when I was at lower levels. While in the end I decided not to believe in any of the spiritual stuff, the lessons I learned from Erin were very real and applicable. One of the most important single articles I'd say was this one on choosing emotions (she even links to Steve's Levels of Consciousness article lol). Do I believe in psychically contacting your Higher Self when deciding whether to be angry? No, not really. Did this concept of choosing how to think or feel about something in the moment enable a lifelong skill that's done tons of good in my life? Heck yes it did. I never, ever considered that you could simply not feel or think something that you were otherwise going to feel or think. Turns out you can, and it's INCREDIBLY useful for getting rid of patterns of negative thinking common to depression and similar states.

 

It's unlikely you'll be able to just say "Oh whoops I was about to feel crippling despair! nty lol" right off the bat, but I mean... you could... but anyways, unlikely. The process of learning to think more positively and have less negative thoughts starts with being aware of them, when they happen. Being aware when you think or feel something negative, that you're about to, that you currently are, that you did. Even if you can't change them yet. Being aware of the times where you think or feel things, whether self-deprecating thoughts or actual anger, is the start to controlling them. In my experience and as I was taught before said experience, doing this over time starts to give you a little more control. At first you'll still be mad because of course you're mad, you want to be and that's not going to change! Later on though, you might be about to be mad and think, is this worth getting angry over? Well, I mean kind of yes. Okay, I'm still gonna be mad. But by that point you start to gain some say in the matter, where once it simply happened as your ego wanted it to automatically. Couple this with a strong intent to change - a desire to be like your much more positive tulpa and not having negative thoughts about people and yourself, for example - and you've got real power. Some instances of negativity will be too strong, or some you'll just not be able to convince yourself you don't want to feel. But you should start finding times where you can either ignore the prompted feeling/thoughts altogether, or at least dampen them with your awareness of them. 

 

Having a tulpa already where you want to be right there with you helps immensely. Having a tulpa already teach the brain what it's like to be at your goal is more than immense, it's practically cheating lol. It's like being told about a Dark Souls boss, vs watching a guide on a Dark Souls boss, versus going in blind. You're still going to have to be the one to beat it, to put the advice to practice and hone your skill. But at least you're not doing it in the dark. And having a friend rooting for you and offering their own advice is like, wow. Even if you suck at video games compared to them :V

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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