Luminesce

Ask Lumi's Tulpas

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On 2/8/2016 at 4:51 AM, Luminesce said:

I'd also dissociate us from tulpamancy terms and beliefs somewhat more akin to what we used to be. We've adapted a little to fit the community and better help others and such, but naturally our beliefs tend to be tailored for our own personal situation and experience.

I’ve noticed that for me personally, a lot of the tulpa experience is subjective and entirely different for everyone - and I find myself sometimes jealous or trying to have similar experiences as other members as apposed to having my own experiences independent of the community. It was mainly a problem when I was an impressionable teenager, though, not so much nowadays. Definitely something to consider though: the experience vs the community and their effects on an individual.


On 2/8/2016 at 4:51 AM, Luminesce said:

I'd also dissociate us from tulpamancy terms and beliefs somewhat more akin to what we used to be. We've adapted a little to fit the community and better help others and such, but naturally our beliefs tend to be tailored for our own personal situation and experience.

I’ve noticed that for me personally, a lot of the tulpa experience is subjective and entirely different for everyone - and I find myself sometimes jealous or trying to have similar experiences as other members as apposed to having my own experiences independent of the community. It was mainly a problem when I was an impressionable teenager, though, not so much nowadays. Definitely something to consider though: the experience vs the community and their effects on an individual.


On 2/8/2016 at 4:51 AM, Luminesce said:

I'd also dissociate us from tulpamancy terms and beliefs somewhat more akin to what we used to be. We've adapted a little to fit the community and better help others and such, but naturally our beliefs tend to be tailored for our own personal situation and experience.

I’ve noticed that for me personally, a lot of the tulpa experience is subjective and entirely different for everyone - and I find myself sometimes jealous or trying to have similar experiences as other members as apposed to having my own experiences independent of the community. It was mainly a problem when I was an impressionable teenager, though, not so much nowadays. Definitely something to consider though: the experience vs the community and their effects on an individual.

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Oh, I made a huge post at the end of a page, hm.
Post about a few things, starting with being a good person despite being a solipsist, and then the latter half being about working on your mindset and learning to see the world in a more positive light, especially with the help of your tulpa(s). It was written specifically for Miri and Mirichu, but it should have plenty of usable advice for people struggling with similar stuff. https://community.tulpa.info/topic/8985-ask-lumis-tulpas/?do=findComment&comment=303567

 


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I don't think the first part is a problem for us at all. -'there can't be any suffering if nothing exists in the first place'- it refers to others' suffering mostly. She couldn't take human suffering but there wasn't much you could do about it (besides being a good person ofc) so the solution? 'no one is real, puppets don't suffer'. But even in her most derealized episodes, she always treated others like sentient beings, no reason to be a jerk towards others.

 

3 hours ago, Luminesce said:

 I can tell you now that any time you make (well, Steve calls it a "quantum leap" lol, or rising a Level of Consciousness) a huge change in your mindset to become more positive, it feels dangerous. It feels like you're losing something important, like your current ways of thinking are too safe to let go of, like you'll become naive or more vulnerable, et cetera et cetera.

 

I am not sure how it applies to us though, I truly can't see the point in keeping -literal- subjective reality beliefs if you're not gonna follow through. Our host used to believe to achieve 'god mode' or whatever Steve talked about, she needed to fully get rid of any logic, get out of touch with reality, self-induced psychosis to put it bluntly. But then we have my own pov that clashes with hers preventing her from fully detaching from reality, so she's pretty much locked into 'still believing this despite it being useless'. It's complicated, at this point she barely thinks this is all fake, it's more of a 'I could convince myself if I truly wanted to'.


I can see the 'becoming more vulnerable' thing though, like a religious person leaving their beliefs behind and now being afraid of death, they no longer have the old coping mechanisms (heaven I assume) in case they need it, or something like that, me thinks.

 

3 hours ago, Luminesce said:

When you become secure in your new more-positive mindset, the things that once seemed like they'd be the end of the world (like a stranger saying something mean to you) are easier to deal with (through understanding would be my suggestion - people act the way they do for much more reasonable reasons than you think, often when negatively it's because they've been hurt, and you'll become strong enough to stop contributing to that cycle). And in exchange, all the time in between is a lot lighter, more positive, more enjoyable.

 

This is exactly how it is for me. If someone were to hurt me, I'd be pissed but would get over it, because not doing so would be pointless and annoying in the long term, but for Miri, she'd probably use it as fuel for 'this world sucks, it deserves to be erased from existence' which is just a justification for the subjective beliefs. We simply are on different levels in that regard. I've already made the brain think like I do, but it's like she doesn't see the point when 'she could be god'. She wants change but at the same time thinks the other thing is better.

 

3 hours ago, Luminesce said:

It's unlikely you'll be able to just say "Oh whoops I was about to feel crippling despair! nty lol" right off the bat, but I mean... you could... but anyways, unlikely. The process of learning to think more positively and have less negative thoughts starts with being aware of them, when they happen. Being aware when you think or feel something negative, that you're about to, that you currently are, that you did. Even if you can't change them yet. Being aware of the times where you think or feel things, whether self-deprecating thoughts or actual anger, is the start to controlling them.

 

Miri: I wish I could do it that easily, sometimes I do try to supress them or ask Mirichu to do it for me. The main problem is that they're triggered by anything, bad news? pandemic? fight with parents? all of them triggers, it can get overwhelming and hard to ignore. It doesn't help that this brain likes to obssess over things, so now a guy getting killed on the news is 'this is going to happen to you' which is pure fear fueling and only makes me want to escape even more. I just can't seem to see the world in the same way my tulpa does.


Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

________________

Waka Waka x3

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Hmm, it takes a lot longer to change your perspectives and thoughts on so many different things. And it definitely takes some bravery to leave behind old coping mechanisms. I can assure you Steve is no god of his own reality though, he had to stop his 92 day juice fast 30 days in because it was making him sick (and giving him skin issues) despite him going into it fully believing it was some amazing detox with tons of benefits lol. He's more of an explorer of realities than a god of them. And I can also assure you his version of "subjective reality" is not a coping mechanism to him, it's just a way of thinking about reality that he likes. Kinda dangerous though. The fact that it looks to me most the time he's not really living in such a reality, yet maintains that it's how he thinks about things, tells me he's balanced it with the rest of his beliefs to align a lot better with reality than just by the way he teaches it. I've done a lot of the same, my beliefs couldn't transfer one-to-one to many other people because they require lots of context and nuances that make them really work. Take our "meta tulpamancy" stuff for example - I could sum up the beliefs in a few sentences, and yet it takes massive textwalls to try and explain everything necessary to not take them the wrong way. Steve's article(s) on "subjective reality" are like us talking about our "meta tulpamancy" beliefs without any of the textwalls explaining the context and, I dunno, just their explanations.

 

Anyways tl;dr Steve's "subjective reality" stuff is bad. Much easier to adopt a New Age spirituality belief system from Erin Pavlina. Ironically she's more in touch with consensus reality than Steve often is, lol. But still, that stuff seems like a crutch to me. And you'll never be able to run with a crutch.

 

I'm not sure if I can "sum up" all the personal development necessary for Miri. There was so much that went into my beliefs, understanding and ways of thinking to get to where I am now (or just where I was 5 years ago), I'm not sure I could even explain it all to my past self. And experience tells me that telling me wouldn't have been enough, you really need to figure things out in your own ways for them to have a strong effect. People can guide you, and you can seek guidance, but in the end they're all just more or less detailed signposts telling you what ways to go. You still gotta do the going yourself. Finding and figuring out which signposts to read (and sometimes like in Steve or Erins' cases, how much of them is helpful and what is not) can be hard too. I spent four years doing basically nothing but this journey myself, so...

 

I don't know what the next practical step for Miri is, but the next goal as I see it is accepting reality is the way it is. Based on

1 hour ago, Mirichu said:

If someone were to hurt me, I'd be pissed but would get over it, because not doing so would be pointless and annoying in the long term, but for Miri, she'd probably use it as fuel for 'this world sucks, it deserves to be erased from existence' which is just a justification for the subjective beliefs.

- that's a lack of acceptance that reality is how it is. Kind of a cop-out. Like, if you're going to continue living in this world, you have to accept that it is how it is, and you can start figuring out ways to live in it from there. Hiding and denying will only make things harder, since you do live in this world, but as Steve would say, the Universe seems much nicer to people who work with it and much harsher to people who don't. Denying the way things are doesn't make them not the way they are. It just stops you from figuring out how to deal with them, or think about them, or so on. Raising your hands and saying "Nope" to dealing with reality doesn't solve any problems, usually it just means someone else has to deal with them for you, or that they'll continue being a problem you're not dealing with.

 

For "all the suffering in the world"-type stuff specifically, I had to learn to be okay with only doing what I can reasonably do, and not worrying about things I can't reasonably do anything about. For "But I want to help X and Y and Z and 1 and 2 and 3 and-", compare doing just a little that you can without going way out of your way, to doing nothing at all and hiding from reality. I think I make pretty big relative differences in others' lives despite my motivation issues by just doing what I can, and I sure don't often go out of my way to do so. I haven't helped everyone suffering all over the world, but if the alternative was laying in my bed sulking and doing literally nothing like when I was younger, I (and the people I've made a difference for) would take this any day. I not only accept that I only do what I can do and don't worry about what I can't help - I've gone so far as to accept what I can reasonably do without going far out of my way, crazy as that is. That definitely took a while to figure out how to be okay with, but it's something I've relied on to not feel bad while seeing bad stuff/news throughout my life now, very invaluable.

 

So I don't really know how exactly to guide you, since I wasn't "guided" by any one person myself, just kind of sought out anything helpful I could find, from the Pavlinas to books on spirituality and self-help to my tulpas, and a loooot of thinking. 

 

I only stayed away from total escapism because of Reisen's influence, her (existence's) promise of a better life without hiding from reality. Tewi was neutral but was always there to give advice when I asked, and at that time it was actually the old Flandre (who eventually asked to be split into the Flandre you all know and Scarlet, who is not active) who was around, who... encouraged escapism pretty heavily. But she only did it because she saw I was hurting and thought it was best for both of us. It wasn't, but we're in a much better place now (without being a terrible burden to everyone around me), so I'm glad I stuck it out and resisted "giving up" dealing with reality.

 

We didn't know about switching though, so I didn't have the choice of having one of them do everything for me. It wouldn't have ended up working out so well if I had just given up and permaswitched - I'd be... well, I mean you can literally just look at my system and your system to see those two outcomes. I think we agree the host-being-able-to-deal-with-life-just-fine option is optimal. It's a lot of work, but it's necessary unless you want to keep hiding from reality forever.

 

I don't really know what else to say at this point in the post, unless you guys have more comments/questions, I guess..


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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We don't really have much else to add either, just reflecting on the stuff you said. The acceptance thing is pretty much what we're going after in the beginning, we'll see about it. Thanks anyway, it is really appreciated.


Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

________________

Waka Waka x3

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If I may interject, Cornelia's said to me that she sometimes finds switching frustrating because she feels like it's easier to change me with mind voice than with switching. I firmly believe there's such a thing as the body OS, and that some problems in your life are caused by said body OS. For such problems, yes, a tulpa fronting for a long period of time could be helpful. But what should be clear by the fact that prolonged fronting didn't fix Miri is that her problems are not in the body OS. They are, well, her problems. I fear that by fronting for so long, you've set yourself up for failure

Mind you, it does seem like Miri's problems are severe enough that you probably want to stay as the main fronter (and, if I recall, Miri just does nothing whenever she "fronts"). Yet, as far as I can tell, you, Miichu, are the one who posts on the forum, chats on the discord, chats on the cbox, and does offline stuff. Of course Miri hasn't gotten any better in those circumstances. Maybe just say "Miri will peruse the forum games for 15 minutes a day" and try and influence her with mind voice while she does. That could be a frustratingly slow experience, and I'm certainly not going to guarantee it will work. But it does seem like it'd be more effective than what you're currently doing


Hello! I am Tanaka Kanade's tulpa. I share her head with my sister Cornelia

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Fronting for a long time won't have made anything harder, it can only help or be neutral. It might not help any more from where you guys are at now, though, aside from being able to give Miri a break/limited time dealing with stress and all.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Having me front definitely made things better, in general, at least our life isn't being neglected. And I don't know about stress as she can't switch out but neither can front, so she's stuck with whatever stress I am dealing with.

 

20 hours ago, uncannyfellow said:

Maybe just say "Miri will peruse the forum games for 15 minutes a day" and try and influence her with mind voice while she does.

I don't know if it'd have any other effect different from me trying to mold the brain to my way like I am right now, but worth a shot. If I can somehow get her to front.

 

But anyway, I don't want to derail a personal thread lol so I'll leave it at that.


Hello, I'm Mirichu, although you can call me Miichu, and I'm the main fronter of this system.

The others are Miri, who's the original host and Akai, but they don't talk much here.

Progress Report and my Art Thread

How long until my host shuts up

________________

Waka Waka x3

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See this is why I prefer to post here instead of PMs, because I more or less responded to the same question like a week or two ago. I didn't realize in my first reply that the person wasn't a newbie and actually wanted to hear about my accidental tulpas though, so I had two replies.

 

On 7/6/2020 at 6:56 PM, Luminesce said:

I didn't actually create my first three tulpas on purpose, they just kind of came into existence on their own, aside from Reisen who I accidentally created by obsessing over the Touhou character and a couple of music videos where it felt like she was singing to me. I was like, 12 at the time and not in a very great place mentally, very depressed. I watched those two videos a ton, and really started to think of her as actually existing, until eventually I guess she just sort of did, in my head. This basically mirrors the normal tulpa creation process of believing there's another person in your head (or at least that there will be), and speaking to them and expecting responses like they're actually there. But yeah, we're actually not the best people to ask since my tulpas were accidental/spontaneous, definitely a question to ask the forum at large. "How did the creation process work for you?" is a fine title, in either Q&A or General Discussion.

 

(putting my second reply in the middle of my first reply here because it's more relevant)

On 7/8/2020 at 1:42 AM, Luminesce said:

Oh, you're not a newbie at all. Sorry I took a while to reply, I've been really busy. I have a reference post specifically for Reisen's creation, although it's not particularly long/more detailed than what I already said: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/14943-what-is-this-thing-in-my-head/?do=findComment&comment=239660

(forum transition screwed up some stuff, those two videos were supposed to be links in text saying "a couple of videos", but it embedded them awkwardly instead)

 

and the now out of order end of my first reply,

On 7/6/2020 at 6:56 PM, Luminesce said:

If you DO want my "creation process", be warned that the only tulpa I purposely created was after being a tulpamancer for five years and having spent a ton of time discussing tulpamancy on the forum - it probably won't be relevant to most beginners. I don't want to use the word "mastery", but I kind of had an extremely solid grasp of tulpamancy by that point, and I don't know many others who have created a tulpa like I did Lucilyn: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/10956-tulpas-whats-the-first-moment-of-sentience-like/?do=findComment&comment=148680

... but like, "mastery" gives you a good idea of how not normal Lucilyn's creation was and how you shouldn't expect it to go like this for you. Well I mean, heck, you can, nothing's stopping you, just don't be surprised if it's not so easy lol.

 

My first tulpa's development technically took place over a pretty long period of time, although I had no actual intention of creating her so it probably could've been done faster. 


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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