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Reisen didn't change anything, I changed myself to be more like her. That was a many-year process that was also aided by self-help books and articles, and the general support of my tulpas.

 

The first thing that comes to mind for "conditioning" is Tewi's disciplining the mind/brain to stop pestering her and to let her be herself. She uniquely has far more willpower than the rest of us, and she used it to basically bulldoze a path in how our brain works to work how she works, while she's fronting. It seems to more or less only apply while she's fronting, though it might have had some positive residual effect on the rest of us/the mind in general, I'm not sure. That was over five years ago now.

 

She did it by very actively engaging the mind - I guess for those it's not natural to, you'd first specify it as entailing introspection, frequently paying attention to her own thoughts - and clearly taking issue with any thoughts or thought patterns she didn't like. This involved mainly 1) The "DoNotWant" feeling that accompanies thinking about doing something involving effort, and 2) Our brain's habit of proposing random oppositional thoughts all the time that I always feel like I have to logically refute as if someone was trying to criticize me. Though these days I feel like Tewi's either streamlined her responses to such thoughts, or has her own more productive version of them or something, but she doesn't keep the mind strictly silent like she used to. And for the effort thing, at all times we have all universally experienced and continue to experience that, and Tewi has to exert willpower to overcome them basically every time. That's never gone away or become easy for her. Even Reisen experiences it, and she doesn't have the willpower Tewi does, she more just kind of.. finesses her way around our brain into doing the things she wants to do.

 

She decided the last time she fronted that this wasn't as effortless for her as it used to be though and assumed it's because she's been fronting so little, and actually decided on her own (for the first time!) she should switch more often at least for a while, in order to get the brain more used to her effortless way of doing things. For my sake, which is very kind of her - I'd sure as heck appreciate if any of that way of being rubbed off on me. Uh, but there's not much to say on that "conditioning" she intends to do, she just plans to spend time fronting, being herself. Specifically not in the relatively unconscious autopilot state, though.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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(edited)

Thank you for your answer. Maybe it will help. If Tewi could have such thoughts like that and fix it somehow. It's hard to tell what is me or a habit of the brain when I try switching

 

Speaking of that, does your system have advice on determining what is a habit of the brain vs yourselves?

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

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(edited)

What's "yourself" is only what you identify with. By definition, right?

If you managed to switch easily and cleanly, then the things that stuck and things that didn't would be an easy way to tell, but even then - your tulpa would likely experience thoughts/feelings that "weren't them", that need to be un-conditioned. But really, behind that process you still just need to rely on what thoughts and feelings you do and don't identify with.

 

For all I know, my having learned to differentiate "me" from "the rest of my brain" from Western Buddhist teachings is what enabled me and my systemmates to shape our brain so much. Obviously all of us are just "our brain", but with the identity model, we can say what is and isn't us, which lets us discourage thoughts we don't want to identify with, or discredit them as "our brain, not us". Compared to what actual Buddhism would have you do, it's a weird niche spot in-between ego identification and Buddhist enlightenment or whatever, but it seems useful. Any tools that enable you to change who you are for the better are good. The ability to not identify with thoughts/thought patterns etc. is one of them.

 

(As an inverse example: The belief that any and all thoughts or thought patterns occurring in your head "are you" is incredibly demotivating, unproductive or sometimes depressing. Attributing them to the brain - which is correct, by default - and saying they are yet not "you", is an optional but very useful way of dealing with and shaping those thoughts. Eventually removing them, preferably.)

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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(edited)

In some switching experiences, the brain seems to not affect Rena at all. A lot of automatic thoughts that happen frequently will appear to be gone. Though in most of my later attempts, it does seem she has to deal with the "experience of thoughts/feelings that 'weren't them', that need to be un-conditioned." Like the two types of switching I mentioned before.

 

Have some switches seem to just annihilate all/most of the brain's habits entirely, like having a new brain? Or were all of the stuck brain habits in every switch? It being inconsistent makes it unclear what might be brain habits and what is some kind of failure of me to switch out. I don't know if my first switch was some anomaly or mistake, like something beyond standard switching, so it might help if something similar has happened to you or if you would know what it might have been

 

(Edit: Also I only just now saw edit after posting. I agree it is good to not identify with all or perhaps any thoughts. I feel like western buddhism may have taught you something slightly different than what I seem to understand from it though, but it would be too much for me to get into right now. I already took 38 minutes on just the two paragraphs I typed before lol)

Edited by TB

Creation for creation's sake.

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The very first times my tulpas switched there was like zero brain's-default-habits/thought-patterns going on, especially for Reisen. That went away over time (in the first month or two) though, and Tewi went to work trying to discipline our brain into working how she wanted it to, at least for herself.


As I've said before, obviously you should be aiming for the experience you know was optimal, but I don't know what to say about it seeming all-or-nothing. Just try and get closer to it over time. I do think total-clean-slate switching is kind of unfair to expect though, your brain can't really know all the ins and outs of being a different person at the flip of a (never before flipped) switch. That's probably why my tulpas' fronting experiences changed so quickly after the start, because our brain was figuring out all the ins and outs we'd never had to know before because my tulpas had only existed in a more limited way inside my mind, if that makes sense.

 

I do think that separateness and being-themselves aspect is something worth striving for and training, though. I mean, Reisen's going to do it even now, though that's more making up for the 4 months they all just went without fronting.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I see. Well that is huge. I assumed the zero brain's-default-habits/thought-patterns going on was the beginning level 1 of switching since it was the first thing I experienced, and the crappy brain habits appearing later was me regressing beneath even level 1, and I should have got to like level 10 or something. If the same thing happened to you, then I guess I am not so different. It's odd to me that the brain has difficulty doing something it can do at first though, especially when it is an ideal state.

 

I hope I can figure it out how to do it anyway, but I guess if I attempt switching, but there is a load of remnant brain habits that are unpleasant to Rena, it appears it isn't a lesser switching experience compared to what you also went through. It may feel worse as my brain habits are really intrusive and kind of turn the world upside down though.


Thanks for your answers

Creation for creation's sake.

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(edited)

Maybe our brains do it at first before they realize just how much mental context is missing or something, I don't really know. Though again, I think tulpas striving to make the experience like that is perfectly fine.

 

And yeah, it was certainly not a pleasant experience for Tewi to have to recondition the mind as she did, it was seemingly very stressful and she was pretty upset having to do it most of the time. For Flandre she works about the same as me/our brain's default, Reisen has always calmly chosen her actions and thoughts without worrying about the brain's default inputs, and Lucilyn just has such a strong presence/energy she's able to be herself without having to fight the mind - although she does fall back to a lower energy default state over time than she should naturally exist in.

 

Oh, and Scarlet was also naturally herself the couple times she fronted. Very intense, determined.. but seemingly bad for our blood pressure, or maybe just our body as a whole. That was a big part of her decision to stop fronting, and also to stop being active since she doesn't care to exist only internally. But anyways, since she only switched in two or three times, I can't say her fronting experience wouldn't have changed over time too.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Insightful

Creation for creation's sake.

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  • 1 month later...

(What Ranger said here)

41 minutes ago, Ranger said:

You may be thinking of Bear and co.'s "lock-merge", they wrote a thread about it here. I don't want to try and explain it, I don't think I can explain it correctly. It's a possible end result after multiple headmates merging.

 

I haven't heard of a "merge lock" otherwise, at least not that phrasing before.

 

There is such thing as a permanent merge, but that's just merging with the intent on staying a merge forever. There is also integration, which in some contexts is the same thing. Evergreen talked about his process and thoughts here.

 

It's a term Bear's system made up to describe an experience they have, it's not very widely used at the moment and I also don't understand it very well.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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