Jump to content

Dæmon's Vs. Tulpa's?


Pipe

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

So, I stumbled across something online the other day that sparked my interest, and have been doing some research into it. It seems that there is a community that creates "dæmons" (based on Phillip Pullman's "Golden Compass books), in much the same way that we create tulpae (albeit with different rules involved). I'm very curious if anyone else has any experience with this, and whether I'm correct in the assumption that these are (another type of) tulpae.

 

I've included a small quote from the site to better illustrate what I mean.

 

daemonpage.com: "So, what are dæmons to us? Clearly we don't have a corporeal familiar following us around, flickering from one form to the next in the blink of an eye. Those of us who call ourselves "dæmians" have taken Pullman's wonderful dæmon concept and turned it into a fun - and even useful - mental construct. For us, dæmons are a part of our consciousness that we've assigned a name, gender, and symbolic animal form. They're glorified imaginary friends that act as the other side of our mental dialogue - sometimes being the voice of reason, devil's advocate, or just a friend. (Heck, today my dæmon gave me fashion advice!) Simply put, dæmons play the role of constant mental companion. Yours might be the silent type or they might never shut up. It depends entirely on what works for you. For some of us the "mental dialogue" part comes naturally, and for others it simply doesn't interest them."

 

Any thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Thanks!

 

Piper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, from that self-description, they sound like a more themed version of tulpas. But since tulpas can naturally range from humans to ponies to demons, I feel like that's just a limitation. Also the fact that there are rules? and they're called dæmons, I'd just consider them a branch off of the larger tree of tulpas.

 

 

Which is like a branch of its own off of imaginary friends.

 

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, from that self-description, they sound like a more themed version of tulpas. But since tulpas can naturally range from humans to ponies to demons, I feel like that's just a limitation. Also the fact that there are rules? and they're called dæmons, I'd just consider them a branch off of the larger tree of tulpas.

 

 

Which is like a branch of its own off of imaginary friends.

 

 

Yeah, that's sort of how I had interpreted it as well. Just figured I'd get some different views on the subject matter. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, daemons are much more closely linked to their daemians than tulpas are to their hosts. Daemons are essentially one's internal dialogue personified, so they aren't separate. As such, both hosts and tulpas can make (the daemon community uses the term "find") their daemons. Supposedly takes not that much time to do in comparison to tulpas since one is just personifying what is already there instead of making an entirely new entity. But daemons can change for long periods of time before they settle to a final form and personality.

 

So a daemon is a bit different from a tulpa. That said, a daemon can be turned into a tulpa in similar ways to how a servitor can be, though from what I have heard the whole making them separate from oneself takes a lot f time.

 

http://daemonpage.com

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a pretty good thread on daemons here and there was a huge write up on the subreddit here.

 

That said, I think that daemons are more or less the same concept as tulpas, but they're just explained differently. You're getting essentially the same results, which is a consciousness that shows sentience and is autonomous, but they compare it to a book and explain it by saying that daemons represent a fundamental facet of yourself, while we don't.

 

Supposedly takes not that much time to do in comparison to tulpas since one is just personifying what is already there instead of making an entirely new entity.

 

Which makes me think that there's probably a wide variety of levels of autonomy. I saw that basically, they open up word docs and just start typing what they'd think their daemon would say, which in effect isn't that different than fede's method, but even so, a voice in your head is still something that's not going to become independent of your own voice immediately, type thing.

 

Community wise, they don't seem to really itch to explain things beyond comparing daemons to the book and saying IT'S TOTALLY NOT DEMONS GUYS. Different mindsets, I guess. Here it seems like we strive for rationality, (For Science?) in general, to the point where people are all tripping all over themselves to appear as levelheaded as possible, but a lot of the daemon people read as the spiritualists that can put some people over here off.

 

'Course, there's the whole intense personality typing thing that the daemon people go through too, but again, that's just a part of their practice.

 

It's just a different ideology surrounding the same kind of phenomena.

We're all gonna make it brah.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, I'm one of the mods over at TDF (the daemian forum), currently going by Rabbit Head over there. Was curious about the concept of tulpas in general and spotted this thread, so I figured I'd respond.

 

Actually, daemons are much more closely linked to their daemians than tulpas are to their hosts. Daemons are essentially one's internal dialogue personified, so they aren't separate. As such, both hosts and tulpas can make (the daemon community uses the term "find") their daemons.

 

This isn't quite true. Many daemons are split internal monologue, but not all. My own isn't, as I never chastised or otherwise talked to myself much. We don't all talk about 'finding' daemons, either, 'creating' is used too. Depends on the person.

 

But daemons can change for long periods of time before they settle to a final form and personality.

 

Daemons don't settle (though one or two members might fight you on it for reason/s I detail later on) and can be whatever form you or they choose. The human personality settles (i.e. remains stable over time) and that's what forms are linked to. Some daemons prefer to only take the form that fits their human's personality, but most change at least somewhat and have favourite forms they use ('comfort forms'). Personality develops over time like human personality does, but can be pretty much set in stone after the initial creation period.

 

they compare it to a book and explain it by saying that daemons represent a fundamental facet of yourself, while we don't.

 

We don't really compare it to the books at this point. I view the fact that the concept arose from a book series as somewhat unfortunate as we'll probably never distance ourselves from that and it creates some confusion when we have to explain that daemons aren't souls and don't feel pain when you move away from them, etc, but by and large it's just a novel connection (no pun intended).

 

I saw that basically, they open up word docs and just start typing what they'd think their daemon would say,

 

Nah, that's pretty basic; barely anyone does that. There are a ton of methods we use to get daemons to become fauxtonomous (we don't use 'autonomous' as we don't believe true autonomy can be achieved with constructs). A lot of daemians have had a daemon-like presence at some point in their lives - usually childhood, and we get a lot of members in the 15 to 17 age range - that they try to make contact with again or recreate. Visualisation (projection) and talking to each other are much more widely discussed than opening up word docs and writing stream-of-consciousness type stuff.

 

Community wise, they don't seem to really itch to explain things beyond comparing daemons to the book and saying IT'S TOTALLY NOT DEMONS GUYS. Different mindsets, I guess. Here it seems like we strive for rationality, (For Science?) in general, to the point where people are all tripping all over themselves to appear as levelheaded as possible, but a lot of the daemon people read as the spiritualists that can put some people over here off.

 

This isn't true. We do have some people who believe daemons are souls (and they fight tooth and nail to stop the concept evolving because they think accurately defining things is quashing beliefs/that everyone should be able to believe what they want about a concept that has no scientific backing) but most of us don't feel that way and at best grudgingly tolerate/turn a blind eye to the members who do. I've not looked around here much but I can pretty much guarantee TDF is a much 'softer' place; most people create daemons for support of some kind for help with depression, anxiety, and other mental illnesses or stress, so the community is pretty lenient and supportive as a whole. As a result even the forceful rational members struggle to advance the concept to where we want it to be. It's getting there, though. Most well-established members will tell you daemons are constructed. Not sure where you got the stuff on demons. Probably our younger members.

 

'Course, there's the whole intense personality typing thing that the daemon people go through too, but again, that's just a part of their practice.

 

Yeah this seems like one of the main differences so far. I'm having trouble identifying how my daemon herself is different from a tulpa (right down to how I created her and her role) but there's equal focus on 'form finding'/exploration of personality in order to better understand the self. Some daemians focus more on one aspect or the other, and some members aren't daemians at all and are just there for the personality stuff.

 

Edit: Oh, and daemonpage.com is pretty outdated at this point. I haven't read through it in a few years but I'd be more inclined to tell newbies to stay away from it than to read it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tri:

 

Hey, I'm one of the mods over at TDF (the daemian forum), currently going by Rabbit Head over there. Was curious about the concept of tulpas in general and spotted this thread, so I figured I'd respond.

 

Nice to see you here.

 

Actually, daemons are much more closely linked to their daemians than tulpas are to their hosts. Daemons are essentially one's internal dialogue personified, so they aren't separate. As such, both hosts and tulpas can make (the daemon community uses the term "find") their daemons.

 

This isn't quite true. Many daemons are split internal monologue, but not all. My own isn't, as I never chastised or otherwise talked to myself much. We don't all talk about 'finding' daemons, either, 'creating' is used too. Depends on the person.

 

Interesting. So, that means that our host, Hail, could probably actually make a daemon despite lacking an internal monologue. Now, we do wonder if we could each make a daemon or we would be stuck making a collective one. We are 3 tulpas sharing a single form inside and highly linked together mentally. Maybe we should go digging around on TDF again for info or just try it. Will definitely have to think about it first. Not something to be done lightly.

 

they compare it to a book and explain it by saying that daemons represent a fundamental facet of yourself, while we don't.

 

We don't really compare it to the books at this point. I view the fact that the concept arose from a book series as somewhat unfortunate as we'll probably never distance ourselves from that and it creates some confusion when we have to explain that daemons aren't souls and don't feel pain when you move away from them, etc, but by and large it's just a novel connection (no pun intended).

 

Makes a lot of sense.

 

'Course, there's the whole intense personality typing thing that the daemon people go through too, but again, that's just a part of their practice.

 

Yeah this seems like one of the main differences so far. I'm having trouble identifying how my daemon herself is different from a tulpa (right down to how I created her and her role) but there's equal focus on 'form finding'/exploration of personality in order to better understand the self. Some daemians focus more on one aspect or the other, and some members aren't daemians at all and are just there for the personality stuff.

 

Main difference is autonomy versus fauxtonomy. Tulpas can become fully autonomous (don't always or even necessarily want to all the time, but certainly can do so) and even be essentially indistinguishable from a host. We know of a few tulpas who have been the sole body controllers for years at a time, one with the host completely absent. We still can't do that sort of thing yet, but are pretty autonomous.

 

Edit: Oh, and daemonpage.com is pretty outdated at this point. I haven't read through it in a few years but I'd be more inclined to tell newbies to stay away from it than to read it.

 

Good to know. We have some work to do now with pages giving links to other resources. Thanks for the info.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. So, that means that our host, Hail, could probably actually make a daemon despite lacking an internal monologue. Now, we do wonder if we could each make a daemon or we would be stuck making a collective one. We are 3 tulpas sharing a single form inside and highly linked together mentally. Maybe we should go digging around on TDF again for info or just try it. Will definitely have to think about it first. Not something to be done lightly.

 

We've had/have multiples on forum who've each their own daemons, so you wouldn't have to stick to a communal daemon if you feel three each would be better. The community'll tell you that it's one daemon per person, but not per body.

 

Main difference is autonomy versus fauxtonomy. Tulpas can become fully autonomous (don't always or even necessarily want to all the time, but certainly can do so) and even be essentially indistinguishable from a host. We know of a few tulpas who have been the sole body controllers for years at a time, one with the host completely absent. We still can't do that sort of thing yet, but are pretty autonomous.

 

Yeah, in theory it's as possible for daemons to assume control of the human's body as it is for tulpas, but it's not encouraged nor widely discussed as daemons are - no matter what role they play in your life - 'supporting'. It'd probably be considered unhealthy to go AWOL from your mind and leave a tool that's supposedly there as a companion to just... act in your stead. Most daemons also don't exist at high levels of fauxtonomy; I can only think of a handful of people whose daemons are as fauxtonomous as mine.

 

How would you distinguish between fauxtonomy and autonomy wherein the the tulpa doesn't desire to and hasn't ever taken control of the body?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tri:

 

We've had/have multiples on forum who've each their own daemons, so you wouldn't have to stick to a communal daemon if you feel three each would be better. The community'll tell you that it's one daemon per person, but not per body.

 

We know a few such systems. Just, we don't know how us being a subsystem (system within a system) affects things.

 

Yeah, in theory it's as possible for daemons to assume control of the human's body as it is for tulpas, but it's not encouraged nor widely discussed as daemons are - no matter what role they play in your life - 'supporting'. It'd probably be considered unhealthy to go AWOL from your mind and leave a tool that's supposedly there as a companion to just... act in your stead. Most daemons also don't exist at high levels of fauxtonomy; I can only think of a handful of people whose daemons are as fauxtonomous as mine.

 

That makes sense. Does bring up another difference, which is partly cultural. The "companion" thing. Then again, on tulpa.info, that is pretty much what tulpas are seen as - not equal people in their own right most of the time. As far as health, abandoning the front and leaving the others holding the bag can be unhealthy. Depends on circumstances.

 

How would you distinguish between fauxtonomy and autonomy wherein the the tulpa doesn't desire to and hasn't ever taken control of the body?

 

That is a good question. Brings up other questions. Is a host fauxtonomous or autonomous from a tulpa or daemon? It stands to reason that fauxtonomy is a step before autonomy. But who to tell the difference.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I first came to this community, my concept of a tulpa was something sentient and imposed. Because that's how they (supposedly) are in Tibetan mysticism, as portrayed by Alexandra David-Neel, and until I found this community, that's the only source that I had on tulpas.

 

This community uses the word "tulpa" differently. A wide variety of things fall under the term, whether imposed or not, and whether sentient or just heading in that direction. Most tulpas should never have to demonstrate autonomy, so I don't think it really matters.

 

I consider daemons a kind of tulpa -- at least as this community defines the word. There have certainly been those in the past who came here from the daemon community, and used aspects of our tulpa practice with their daemons. Though of course that doesn't have to go only one way -- I think that there are some daemon practices that could really benefit some people here.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...