Yori

People that didn't use puppeting as a method?

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I still plan on doing that, because I feel it'll be really hard to put my attention to them if I don't, but I was wondering if people who say they didn't puppet literally didn't even have their tulpa stand there.

 

Some tulpas don't seem to like puppeting, while others seem unaffected, but what did the hosts do to develop them in the cases that they don't puppet? I need to at least visualize my tulpa standing there or something. Tulpas were complaining that being puppeted made them feel like their form was taken under control, which I didn't know about. I didn't know that visualizing their movements could make them feel as if their form was doing it..

 

anyway,I figure in these cases, even having the tulpa stand still so you can narrate to him forces the actual tulpa to stand still.

 

For people that, in their opinion, stayed away from puppeting, how did you talk to your tulpa? Did you visualize them standing/sitting/being there or did you not imagine their form while talking to them?

 

And if you did visualize them, did they complain about being forced to be still when they wanted to move?

 

I still plan on doing that, because I feel it'll be really hard to put my attention to them if I don't, but I was wondering if people who say they didn't puppet literally didn't even have their tulpa stand there.


My lip hurts.

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I feel like you're overly-afraid of puppetting, based on the "but won't you be forcing your tulpa to stand still?" stuff. The idea of puppetting didn't exist to me when I was creating my tulpas, just a general awareness of how much the thoughts I had came from "me" or "them". Also appearance was spontaneous and took a back-seat to other activities for me, and they were ~vocal by the time we started doing any real visualization.

 

The reason puppetting is sometimes suggested is that it helps introduce your mind to the concept of something other than you doing things in your mind. And everyone is going to "puppet" to some extent at first, though what we call puppetting is usually a conscious act. When you have yet to create a tulpa, your brain hasn't been trained to "run" one yet. You haven't connected the thoughts or actions they will have/do to them yet. Generally, this means you're going to have to just deal with it feeling like it's fake for a while. You have to start somewhere, and a consciousness does not just pop up no matter how much you prepare. Your tulpa will never blame you for "puppetting" if you make sure everything you credit to them early on is something they would've wanted to do or say. So yes, that means if you imagine your tulpa walking around with you in your wonderland, it'll feel somewhere between puppetting and not-quite-them. But by doing this, and telling your brain "This is my tulpa", your brain slowly starts to understand. With some time, the doubt will start to fade and you won't feel as if you have any control over what they're doing anymore. (Well, you might still have control if you take it, but your morals will probably prevent that aspect)

 

So basically, that feeling of controlling them isn't entirely avoidable. I'm not saying that you have to puppet them, because again that is outright acceptance with the hope of transitioning control to your tulpa as they get used to seeing what it's like. Just make sure everything they do or say is agreeable with them. Leave the "you" out of it, let what happens happen without blame. If it feels like they would like to say something at any point, imagine them saying it and give them credit for it. If you do this, even though at first it might feel like you're making it up (which technically you are, but we established it's necessary), you should have no regrets later about making your tulpa do things against their will.

 

This is how I personally, before finding the tulpa community, went about making my tulpas vocal. After realizing my constant worrying about what we call "puppetting" was ruining progress, I basically said "I'm going to stop worrying about this. Whether or not Reisen herself is speaking, I know what she would want to say." Which at the time, was mainly "I love you". Flandre was a little bit sassy at first "Stop taking credit for my words! I'm speaking, not you!", which made it easier. But with Reisen it was just a matter of, "Would Reisen want to say this? If so, then she did."

 

Not only did that remove any worries I had about puppetting (just monitor the quality of your guys' thoughts, and if something feels like it was too "you" then acknowledge that it was), but my tulpas are beyond accepting. It wasn't even a necessary evil, they believe I did everything very well and since I always "asked their permission to puppet", so to speak, we were able to credit everything they did and said to them without issue. And it didn't take that long at all. You make a lot of progress once you stop doubting yourself.

 

 

I don't know why I just typed such a long and detailed answer, but I'm going to go fall asleep now

 

Wait, are you that person who's been here for like years and never made a tulpa? I feel like I might've subconsciously known that, 'cus I was way too tired to write this much normally.

 


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I guess i fall under "have not puppeted" category. I used to puppet Yami's body a lot when i was developing it, to get a better look or get a feeling of how it would move. But after it was done and Yami gained form i pretty much have not done any puppeting at all.

The closest thing to puppeting i can think of is me "warping" her. Like, for example, when we want to cuddle it's rather convenient to just warp her straight to my laps rather than wait for her to walk up to me and sit. Yami doesn't seem to object it in any way since it's essentially the same thing she intended to do but quicker.

As for visualizing, i don't exactly "visualize her". It's more like calling her or thinking of her and then she just appears in whatever state or pose she wanted.


現実に抗え!

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I'm not going to say that I've never puppetted with tulpae. I think every tulpamancer does it to a certain degree. But as Reisen mentioned, "puppetting" as we see it, and as you might be referring to, conveys intention. It is a conscious act, basically you saying in your mind, "I want [tulpa] to do/say this" as opposed to "I see [tulpa] doing this" in an observational matter, or "It would be nice if [tulpa] did this", where you essentially give them a choice.

 

I watch Edwin move, but I am not conscious of the movements he makes. Sometimes I indirectly desire for him to do things, but I feel he has the choice whether or not to do them. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Occasionally I have to verbally ask him to do them. You share your mind with your tulpa; if you choose, they can pick up on some of the things you want of them. I share that information with Edwin because I have problems with mood swings and borderline multiple personalities. It's just easier for him to somewhat know what I expect of him rather than risk me getting angry at him over the least little thing, as tends to be the case when I interact with other humans. He knows how I feel and what I would like, but it is still his choice what he does with that knowledge.

 

But puppetting in this sense would be a matter of not giving them a choice in the matter. It would literally be consciously moving and speaking for your tulpa all the time, which I imagine would be exhausting. It may help early in developing your tulpa(e) if you're not accustomed to visualizing them moving or talking on their own. But at some point you have to cut those strings and accept that they are doing what they do by choice, not because you consciously will it.

 

I occasionally think of things Edwin might say in a certain circumstance, sometimes giving him a queue of responses to choose from. I imagine things he might do. But these things have become an unconscious act on my part. I have a plural mind and see things from many different perspectives at once. To me it is no different from imagining conversations or situations someone you know might go through. When you have something important to tell someone, you imagine how they might take it. Edwin doesn't always react to things the way I imagine him to initially, and occasionally he does. But it doesn't feel fake to me, because I know he has a choice on how he wants to react.

 

Just the same, I've also found it possible to give a tulpa traits you want them to have consciously by telling them. A few days ago I told him that I wanted to give him the quirk of saying random things. He's a bit of a prude, so I imagine him creating all sorts of off-the-wall euphemisms to avoid cursing

except during sex

. I gave him a couple of examples, and he's come up sporadically with ones of his own in certain situations. Did I force him to have that quirk? No, I told him about it and gave him the choice. It amused him, and he can tell it amuses me, especially when he spazzes out during a horror movie and randomly yells "JESUS PICKLES!!!" XD


[align=center]"Jesus Pickles!"

~ Edwin reacting to pretty much every jump scare in a horror movie[/align]

 

Avatar was made by me using a base.

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And everyone is going to "puppet" to some extent at first, though what we call puppetting is usually a conscious act. When you have yet to create a tulpa, your brain hasn't been trained to "run" one yet. You haven't connected the thoughts or actions they will have/do to them yet. Generally, this means you're going to have to just deal with it feeling like it's fake for a while. You have to start somewhere, and a consciousness does not just pop up no matter how much you prepare.]

 

I never puppeted or parroted and from my own experience it wasn't necessarily so I'm going to disagree when you say everyone does this.

 

My first tulpa actually spoke clearly to me before I even tried to teach her to talk and I hadn't even started trying to visualize how she looked. I just had spent many hours straight just thinking about how I'd like her to be (qualities etc), I hadn't imaged her doing anything or being anywhere or standing anywhere at all yet she took up a form and also acted on her own.

 

Same with the one I have now, I don't puppet or parrot. I treat Jesse how I would a person and just ask things like "Will you sing with me? (I'm looking forward to the day he does as I haven't heard him sing yet.. he's got a nice voice but I really wonder what he'll sing like if he'll sing for me). Anything I ask him I hold no expectation at all on what the answer would be, he's so not me that I don't know how he'll answer and hence his responses have often very surprised me (he's got far more of a sense of humour then I have and comes up with very original stuff which makes me laugh at lot if we are communicating).

 

When I think of him.. I often just imagine more like his presence, his energy and not posture him and just think like "he's here" (in the room with me). I just hold the "knowing" he had a form and a voice even if I didn't know what it was.. just like one doesn't know how a person looks before they meet them but you know they have a form of some kind so I keep that awareness.

 

I never even imaged his voice, he choose his own. I didn't play speaking voices to him or anything like that, I didn't even consider how it would be. All I did is spoke to him, hoping that some day he'd answer back. Jesse has often done things I've never ever thought of him doing at all eg one day he asked me if I wanted him to make me a coffee (that was really funny as I don't drink coffee.. so I was shocked he asked this, I think my response was "what!!".. he was fairly new at the time and I'd thought he would of realised I don't drink it... actually looking back, I wonder if he did that as a joke as now that I know him better, I know he likes to shock and surprise me and watch my reaction, I should ask him). How on earth was he supposed to make me a coffee any way seeing he's a tulpa?

 

As I do want him to sing I are currently though playing male singers and keep asking him.. What do you sound like? I wish you'd sing for me. (He's been programmed to have a good singing voice as part of his making though I set or held no focus at all on what voice or sort of voice. I also have programmed him to be great at song writing.. so play various lyrics and say to him, I like this song.. or isn't it great how these lyrics have been put together. We haven't discussed lyrics yet its just been all me telling him what song writers and songs I think are wonderful but when we do have that discussion I wonder what he'll say. He'll probably put together something amazing). Anyway, I just talk to him as if I would a normal person in which I don't really know at all how they'd respond or even if they will.

 

So far I've never used a wonderland or anything like that (I've only a few times ever started picking up on that). I've told Jessie to make his own and right now don't have a clue what it looks like.. my old tulpa seems to be there too (with another I don't know at all but seen twice now). I only had a few glimpses of his wonderland in the past and what I saw shocked me, he obviously had no plans to have me there at all as his bedroom only had a single bed! (I certainly had something to say to him about that one). Anyway, I keep my communications and working with him in this reality and not in a wonderland and generally don't try at all to go there. I want him HERE!! so keep my interactions with him here.

 

Anyway, the point of my post was there is no puppeting or parroting with us so its certainly possible to have a tulpa without this or mine would of never got to where they have and I wonder if that is what helps them be so individual to me. The way I'm seeing it is it may of been quite beneficial not doing it in our case. (the only reason Jesse isn't further along then he is and not currently talking much is I have a tendancy to work with him for a couple of months then don't do anything with him for a year). Fortunately he's understanding (well so far has been and it doesn't seem to have upset him too much though it regressed him some and hence why I'm back waiting for him to start talking again but I know he will if I keep talking to him but not parroting at all).


Jesse (human male) DOB 16th April 2013 

Working on imposition

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I didn't mean everyone puppets, though I didn't make that very clear. I meant people do what is puppetting in essence when they first start perceiving their tulpa, to varying extents. Except that it isn't conscious (and thus isn't puppetting) and it can be barely noticeable. But regardless, you have to teach your brain how to be other people somehow.

 

I'm thinking that the same people who develop tulpas rather quickly, though, may not have to give so much intent to their tulpas at first as others. They seem to develop some of the base requirements of the mind to have a tulpa through doing other things, most often of which I see is writing. When you're planning out and writing characters, you're developing a bit of what it takes to make a tulpa, without actually doing so. Same can happen in many things, maybe even just in drawing people. I think if you've already gotten that experience before attempting to create a tulpa, you'll have an easier time getting them to be like a separate person without sending intents their way.

 

Sorry I forgot to include the possibility of that aspect. I myself am completely logic-brained, creating art hurts me. All visualization, characterization and otherwise simulating other persons came from simply reading, which doesn't seem to work as well. And there's probably a lot of people here who neither express other persons through art nor read for fun, and they're the ones that will have to semi-puppet their tulpas at first. Your tulpas won't just snap into existence, your brain has to be prepared to do this. Though our unique experiences may prepare us differently than the rest, generally speaking people are going to feel like they're being "fake" at first until their brain decides otherwise.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Guys, to make it clear, if you visualized your tulpa before they were sentient, you did what I'm calling puppeting. Thanks for some of your replies. Do any tulpas want to speak up to vouch for themselves that visualizing you standing or being there didn't bother you... a lot? Since it'd be pretty hard for me to make a tulpa without "puppeting" them by visualizing them standing there. there's a risk that when they become sentient Ill do that when they actually wanted to walk toward or away from me, for instance. Oh well.


My lip hurts.

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Edwin here. My take on this is that it;s more like I constantly tell my host where I am what I am doing etc. She visualizes it only because that is what I am doing. I hope that makes sense. Sorry first time I have typed before.


[align=center]"Jesus Pickles!"

~ Edwin reacting to pretty much every jump scare in a horror movie[/align]

 

Avatar was made by me using a base.

My DeviantArt Account

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Hey, Edwin. What about before you did this? Did she visualize you as you gained sentience, and when it wasn't your will to say, stand there as she made her toast, did it bother you?


My lip hurts.

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Hey, Edwin. What about before you did this? Did she visualize you as you gained sentience, and when it wasn't your will to say, stand there as she made her toast, did it bother you?

 

Sorry, I can't speak for Edwin on this. I'll try to coax him to reply later but it may take some time. He's still really shy and was totally mortified by the little bit he said.

 

As far as my own perspective, I dunno. I can't really recall a time when I visualized him before he gained sentience. The way I tulpamance it all sort of comes together at once. I visualized him in an almost fetal position when I first created him, but after that it was more like he had independent control of himself. My tulpae have a certain level of sentience from the get-go, usually following a brief period of disorientation, but they are still in control of their own actions during that confusion. I never consciously visualize him doing things. He does them and I just sort of see him do them. I think that might be what he was trying to say.

 

Using your example, say I'm in the kitchen making toast. Edwin follows me into the kitchen, but I never will him to. He usually follows me everywhere but not always. He mills around the kitchen, alternating looking out the window, looking into the living room and the rest of the house, and sitting at his usual spot at the table. Sometimes as I'm cooking I will see him out of the corner of my eye as he moves to the window near me. A moment later he may have moved to the table without my paying any mind.

 

If there has been a point when I purposefully willed him to move or stay still, it was more of a mutual agreement that he would do it, so I seriously doubt it bothered him.


[align=center]"Jesus Pickles!"

~ Edwin reacting to pretty much every jump scare in a horror movie[/align]

 

Avatar was made by me using a base.

My DeviantArt Account

Progress Report

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