Eros The Overthinker

Critique on the decline of a community

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Now, I am a pretty straight forward person, so I will not bore my readers with the eloquence, so I will keep this straight and to the point. I see a lot of things wrong with this community, so many things wrong that is hurts. I may be new here, but, to be able to see past the veil of bullshit to this degree is, well, not that hard, even for people who have been here awhile.

 

Alright, just as a general list to keep this rant on track, I shall list my points. 1) the circlejerking and affirming everyone's correct and a special snowflake, 2) people using the chat and forum as their personal blogs, 3) the roleplaying of having a tulpa when you do not. Now, these are not all of the problem, and, they may seem to encompass all of the same thing, but, I am addressing them as they are the main problems.

 

Alright, first point, the circlejerking and affirmation of correctness and special snowflake status. This is a problem for many reasons, namely that it attracts the wrong crowd. If you want to make a tulpa, you should be here. If you want to be affirmed and jerked off by your neighbors while simultaneously jerking them off, go to Tumblr, you will be welcome with open arms and the beating in full motion.

 

This situation also does not allow for conducive tulpamancing, because what if someone is actually wrong? Or believes someone that is wrong? It makes for them following their path into futility.

 

Second point, people using this place and the chat as their personal blogs. Alright, we want to hear about your tulpa and it's process, that is the purpose of the site. What we do not want to hear about is your personal life, or your tulpa drama. It does not give a comforting environment to the new people, nor does it make us able to properly discuss the finer points of tulpamancing because you are blogging and everyone is trying to help you with your life.

 

Third point, roleplaying of having a tulpa if you do not. Now, I can hear you guys now, "Nobody is roleplaying, everybody here has a tulpa/tulpae and nobody is faking yatatata ext ext ext." Now, my point here is you are dead wrong. People here are faking like there are no tomorrow. Three years ago, it used to be that making a tulpa was hard as hell, and now, it is the easiest thing on the entire planet. People, people who I shall not name, are making entire cities inside of their heads and waging war. That is most likely roleplay, or, they are mentally insane and we should help them.

 

This is not only bad in and of itself, but, it prevents people that actually want a tulpa from getting sound info, which is crucial to making a tulpa. If they have to sort through the true and the false first, well, it just makes it that much harder.

 

So, in conclusion, this community is taking a steady decline because of the reasons listed above, and nobody is stopping it. In four years or less, this forum, the chat room, it will all be gone because we are just not the place that this used to be, and, it needs change.

 

I will be available in the thread for discussion, just do not throw hate at me, because this was not a hateful thread, it was an observation, and, people who cannot handle observations really need to learn their social skills.

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This is what I like to see.

An effort at actually trying to help things to improve, instead of just complaining to each other on the IRC.

If we want things to change around here, we will have to be reasonable, and work together - not just talk ill of things without any effort to pointing out the real problems, and solutions.

 

To address your points:

 

1. Yes. I have seen plenty of this, and it is only increasing as time goes by. I also think that it is a major problem. People make outrageous claims, and others support them for no logical reason - defending them against anyone who tries to shed any logic on the matter. Anyone who tries to disagree. It is things like this which I believe is, and will be one of the main reasons that this community, and this phenomenon will never truly be taken seriously by outsiders.

 

Unfortunately, this is not an easy thing to fix. I have certainly thought plenty about it. The power to change this problem lies with the community itself, primarily - not anything the staff can do.

I would personally love to see a community of mature, level-headed individuals who truly care about this phenomenon, and the state of this place. I would like for them to have civil discussions about these matters, and to not blindly accept everything they hear.

When this forum was made, there was hope of it being at least somewhat scientific. With the way things are now, there is little evidence of that left.

I would like, to some extent, to try to return to that path. The main tools should still be reason, logic, and science - without people successfully hiding behind their shield of subjectivity. That simply doesn't cut it in the scientific community, and it shouldn't cut it here. "Because I said so" is just not good enough.

If you don't believe what someone else is claiming, then you should not be afraid to - maturely and civilly - point out why you do not believe it is possible, and why they might be mistaken. Luckily, when it comes to most of the far-out claims that I've seen, there are explanations for their experiences, instead of having to resort to "you are a liar". There are roleplayers here, but those that are not lying may well truly - albeit mistakenly - believe what they are saying. You should not be afraid to discuss this. Everything anyone says should not be blindly accepted, for no reason.

 

I could go on, but I think that was poorly-structured enough.

 

2. Regarding the IRC: blogging about your personal life, and irrelevant details of tulpa things are already against the topic rules of #topic.info. In #lounge.info on the other hand, there is no reason they shouldn't be able to discuss those things, because there is no topic at all. They can talk about anything from the weather, to math, to tulpas, to sandwich-making.

Regarding the forum: yes. This is indeed an issue, and the staff has noticed it. We already have a draft for new Progress Report rules that are waiting to be pushed through. This will address the problem of which you are speaking, there.

If you are talking about a blogging problem outside of Progress Reports, then I can only assume that you are interpreting some of these pointless, silly, repeat-questions in the form of a story as blogging. The staff will be talking more about that, too.

 

3. A lot of what I said in regards to point 1 apply here, as well.

Though the main problem with roleplayers is that we can't prove, or know for sure whether a lot of these users are roleplayers. If we could, we'd ban 'em. But we are not comfortable with the possibility of banning users who are truly trying, and just perhaps confused.

 

Again, in a lot of ways, one solution lies with the community. If they were not to accept the ludicrous things that people say, then the roleplayers would not be so interested.

 

Another possible solution lies with the staff, but I don't like that one as much. It would be possible to set a certain "boundary", so to speak. A list, or something, of the kinds of things you just can't claim. This already exists, to some extent, with the segregation of "metaphysics" from the regular, psychological approach to the phenomenon. The problem is that some things cannot be proven to be metaphysical. This would mean we would have to come up with some sort of grounds by which to disallow certain claims and discussion that is not immediately disprovable

though usually pretty obviously impossible

.

I don't like this solution very much, as, whether these people are mistaken or not, it would mean that the staff would be silencing the opinion of others, based on their own views. That can be rather dictatorial.

 

 

I have plenty more I could say, but I don't seem to be in one of my more coherent states of mind. I already think some of this was probably structured poorly, but I am hoping everyone understands what I am saying.

 

For Eros and the rest of you, I would like to hear what you think about what I have said, and any possible solutions to these problems that we face.

As well as any more community-related problems that you think of.

I was going to make a thread like this myself, soon enough - asking for people's thoughts of what is wrong, and how it can be improved.

 

Thank you, again, for making this thread.

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I'd probably have to agree, personally, on all three. I'm as guilty as anyone in the PR section of posting about my personal life, though I think it was kept on the smallish-side of things, but points one and three, oh yeah, those suck.

 

When I'm told that nothing I'm doing is wrong, that I just need to keep going on the same track, I'm not getting any better. I know I need to be told something different, but can't do anything about it until I've heard some harsh, albeit constructive words (Not that even that always helps, but it's better than "Just keep on, man!"). Heck, nice and friendly words are great, no denying, and I love getting them, but jeez.

 

On the other end, the mood has left me, since I joined halfway through 2013, mostly stuck on my own PR. I can't say I'm having a hard time believing what someone else is doing is legitimate because there's not much use, and they'll be more than likely reaffirmed (One or two cases where they aren't, one in particular in recent times that made me happy to see), and it won't matter either way, so I venture out as little as possible because the rest of the forum can get to me. Sigh, and then they keep on and develop their Tupper, legit or not, and are happier than me in any event because I'm spiteful.

 

Hell, I get that I'm nobody to say that your day-1 Tupper isn't (Insert whatever term/capability-of here), but there's most definitely a marginal increase of people now, than from back in the day, who don't seem to experience any hardships at all. Maybe they don't post about them, maybe they genuinely just don't have any difficulty in the process, but I'd wager not, personally. There's just a bare-minimum of any criticism here, constructive especially, and that's what breeds a lot of it, I'd wager.

 

Definitely members who will correct others, explain topics more thoroughly when people don't understand them, but.. Idunno. That's just what anyone would do, really. I guess it just fits into the theme of the forum, now. Assume sentience from the start, even if they're not, believing they are and treating them like they are makes it faster, etc., etc.. Even when to many, their Sentience from the start isn't as much "You're alive and listening!" As it is "1pm, I had my first forcing session. Wish me luck on the next one! -- 7pm, OMG THEY SPOKE, WE'VE BEEN TALKING FOR A WHILE AND THEY'RE TOTALLY VOCAL THIS IS THE BEST DAY EVER" (Slightly exaggerated case of someone in the past few months, time-frame isn't that off though).

 

I mean, hell. I get wanting to encourage even these people, saying that it will help develop what might not be a Tupper into what is a Tupper is great. But I don't personally think it sets up the most ideal tone. As has definitely been said, and as has been, and forevermore will be argued, it lets people join and think it's not going to be tough at all. And maybe it isn't for them, and people like us are the idiots for being skeptical and making it hard for ourselves. Who knows? I guess at the end of the day, there isn't anything we can do for it. The process has gotten progressively more subjective from the beginning, and while that's arguably a good thing (arguably is the word here that I'm personally leaning on), yeah, it enables us to say and suggest mostly whatever with minimal criticism (Unless it's just blatantly stupid of course, does happen), and it enables people who are consciously role-playing, and getting a kick out of it, to keep running around and doing what they do, be it harmless or not.

 

Dunno, could ramble forever, but I'm probably looking like an idjit. Not the most coherent thing, sorry, just speaking to speak.

 

Everyone sees it differently, and I guess that's just how it is. I don't like the do-no-wrong outlook despite hardly having experienced different myself, and I'm just generally biased towards day-one tuppers, and their close relatives. Other people like to encourage everybody equally, and they may be in the total right. Forum will continue to seem worse the more you stress it either way, so not much to be done for it.

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Thank you for addressing this post, Kiah, and, I will not be addressing point for point what you have said, mostly because I do not have to, it would just be reiterating what I have already said. I agree with everything you yourself added to this discussion, and I wish for you to know that I will be here backing you up from the community, helping the change come about.

 

Thank you for replying, and, thank you for being vocal about it as well. We need more people like you.

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You have some valid points

This ones are my thoughts about those, but only about the forum, not the IRC cause i never went there

 

1) I completely agree with you in this one, the circlejerk is some serious forum killer problem. I have a theory about why this happens, and is ratter simple; the lack of population. thats it, whit a low population the users tends to be close to each other, in a long term this is obviously bad and that will tend to scare the new users causing a feedback effect

Possible solution: To avoid the circle jerk we need more users, it doesn't really matter if they are underaged or not

 

2) I agree with @Kiahdaj and I don't know how to add more

Possible solution: Enforce the new PR rules

 

3) This one is the most important problem I think we have, and the one that is the most difficult to resolve

You almost can't prove them wrong, you only can just not believe them and move along

Possible solution: None

 

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This reply is pretty lame, I know

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Yes, this is good, finally glad to see that people are talking about this! Especially the RP problem, I'm not naming names, but there are a few people I suspect of bullshitting. But I should be able to express why I think something isn't right and provide my logic and reasons without fear of retribution from people who refuse to use their critical thinking skills!

 

We do need new members though, we need advertising. My host and I have actually been telling numerous people about tulpamancing, and teaching them how 2 tulpa, but we never really showed them the forums, just taught them ourselves. But I could start showing more people this community

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I've held a certain "standard level of suspension of disbelief" through almost all of my posts. I could just hit you guys in the face with psychology and tell you how dumb half of what you think is, but that's rude and in my opinion less productive. If people just want to be happy, who am I to tell them they're doing it wrong? But some of you prefer hard logic, like Cinemaphobe, who's one of those I'm a little stricter with. People I don't know get what you'd probably call "circle-jerking", with hints of what I believe they should be doing thrown in as suggestions. But when I'm talking to a GAT member or someone like Cinema who highly values logic, I make exceptions. Sorry if that's not how you think I should go about it. With the small-community problem, I figured a little leniency is worth not scaring off half of our users.

 

 

And as for the "roleplayers". You guys don't have any idea what you're talking about. People don't come here en masse and roleplay - they simply see how we act and, not understanding just how much effort and quality a tulpa takes, make underdeveloped ones. And the range of underdevelopment is huge. Yes, some people are practically roleplaying considering how much of a tulpa they don't have, but it's not done consciously and shouldn't be called roleplaying. More commonly, people have less-than-fully-developed tulpas, though from the perspective of any other forum user this is difficult to distinguish. I've experienced firsthand my stating of my own experiences sounding much richer than they really were, for whatever reason, and I'm sure most people here are less likely to correct for those embellishments than I am. However I don't think anyone here has ever found a way to say "Your tulpa <<<< my tulpa! Effort harder!" and really get the message across. Plus, as far as I can tell underdeveloped tulpas tend to develop simply by being thought about - put through different scenarios, made to talk, being interacted with, etc. The real problem is people who simply have the wrong idea. I could easily make a mental NPC, give them psuedo-awareness of everything I'm conscious of, and treat them like a tulpa. This would take all of 3 seconds to do. And I see no reason I couldn't keep that up for weeks if not months. That, is dangerous. My tulpas didn't become fully developed or "real" until about two years in, when I finally managed to separate them entirely from my control. Before that point I had been influencing them somewhat, though not against their will, and not really knowing it. And the amount of introspection or thinking-about-your-own-thoughts that took can't be expected of every single user here. We may just have to accept that and hope the people who don't truly have fully developed tulpas act well enough that they still set decent examples for the rest.

 

And they do. This is why I don't go around doubting every single PR I read - whether or not X's tulpa is a fully-fledged tulpa makes no difference, and they seem happy, so we're good. When they aren't setting good examples, then I suggest changes, both for the OP and those who read through their report. I see nothing wrong with this take on the subject, so I won't change my behavior on it.

 

 

And.. Well, the PR = blog thing has been on my mind recently, actually. Because multiple people have suggested I make a Progress Report despite my tulpas' development being all-but-done. Small things happen on occasion, and at this very specific moment I just so happen to have started creating another tulpa. But really, I don't have much Progress to Report. Yet I'm more or less expected to make one anyway, because I have a lot to say on the subject of tulpas. I wasn't thinking it was a problem, per se, but I was pondering whether it would make sense to make a progress report solely to talk about aspects of tulpamancy I felt others could learn from. In the essence of a Progress Report... The answer actually seems to be yes. Progress Reports are extremely helpful in the furthering of the community, and just because my tulpas aren't struggling to exist right now doesn't mean I'm not still learning, or that what I have to share isn't valuable.

 

So then, your complaint is that people are talking too much about their lives and too little about tulpas. This stems from a couple of things, primarily that most users see progress reports as a means to Document their Progress. Imagine that. Their goal isn't to further the community, but to further themselves. The other thing is that it's just common at this point to discuss factors of your life that affect tulpamancy. Though in Cinemaphobe's defense specifically, as I'm sure he's one of the main people you're talking about, he's been encouraged to do this. His life is (debatebly?) interesting, insofar as to make his progress report one of the most popular on the site. I personally don't see any problem with the way he specifically uses his progress report. This is important because I believe others see him as a sort of role model with which to base their PR threads on.

 

... I know exactly what you're referring to with the blogging thing, but I just went through about ten random progress reports and all of them seemed very on-topic: progress of their tulpamancing. Sorry, but I'm not going to trade having a friendly and supportive community for stricter "BUT HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOUR TULPA?" guidelines. Outside influences can actually be pretty important for the reader to know how to take the documented progress, or lack thereof.

 

So I'd agree that the PR rules should be redone to talk about not blogging, but... They already are. It's not the rules, but the lack of people who read them. (Ahh, the old "How do we make people read stickies?" problem.) Short of just telling people they're being too off topic, I don't really see what we can change. Progress reports seem to be serving their purpose just fine, I think it's just your personal preference here. We're not running out of space because people are writing about what they and their tulpas did that day instead of pure progress. And the benefits outweigh personal dislike of that sort of thing. You're free to not read progress reports that don't appeal to you, following only those that do. I've seen plenty of members who seem to follow X person's PR specifically, and that's fine. As for you, Eros, might I suggest Winrarphile's Progress Report? His posts are ridiculously concise after page 1. Some people like that, some will be disinterested. I personally like progress reports where I get to know the person, but his is so dang to the point that I check it daily anyways.

 

 

That's pretty much all I have to say. It won't change the entire forum, but I hope it's productive regardless. Also if you couldn't tell I don't even touch the IRC, nothing I said was referring to them. IIRC the IRC has been iffy for years, but that just seems like it's to be expected to me. I'll leave fixing that to those who actually use it.

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I want to share my personal opinion now and even if there are some points i have to agree with your statements it seems most are superficial and generalized.

 

1, sry my english is to bad i dont understand this statement so i just skip this and dont give my bullshit on this.

 

2, This is a statement i cant agree at all with. Ok theyre some problems realy no one wants to know my progress report is full of stuff like this. But i think many problems in depressions which are written down in a PR are very important to see the concept of the mental help a tulpa is. Well you can say "i had this problem and with the help of my tulpa i solved it" but what if i told you no new member is going to belive it if they cant follow your thoughts and the path they maybe also have to solve. The problems and the own development are very close to tulpamancing becuse it is all connected with your mental state.

 

Well i haven´t read many progress reports here yet so i dont know which one you specific rely on but the one i read are filled with the problems and life others have and i do like to read their expierience and helping them is something what usually also helps you.

 

But the most important thing i want to point out is that you dont have to read reports like the one you criticize. If you dont enjoy them you can skip or just ignore it like everything in the internet. You don´t have to read confusing stuff which dont help you for your tulpaforcing, its your own decision.

Some problems others pointed out of their life helped me with my own life and also my tulpa developing and even if they (and i) dont have to tell about every shit of their life it´s totally ok to write it down if they think it is important for them.

I dont want to read a robotic like progress report i want to feel emotions if i read them like the hell of emotion bursted out during my progress and the progress of my tulpa.

 

If the rules would be changed so i couldn´t tell about my personal issues which are connected with my subconscious i would stop writing a progress report becuse no one would able to understand it correctly in my opinion. Also the subconscious is connected with your tulpa, that means it influence your tulpa dramticly what kind of problems and issues you have with society, your body or your fears and so on.

 

Many people are using this forum as a blog becuse they maybe dont have a place where they could tell others about it.

 

I wrote a trip report on a german drug page recently and got many good feedback from them as i explained what a tulpa is and how she affected me during psychedelic trips. I also linked to my progress report and some people i wrote with decidet to make their own tulpa becuse they read about my problems and personal life.

In this case my progress report is a very usefull tool to explain people who are like me what is tulpamancing for me and how it COULD work for them. Everyone is individual and just becuse you cant get information you need for you progress form other reports it dosen´t mean it is also for others.

 

I want to read about the problem of others and try to help them with my expierience. Thats why im here and thats why i like this comunity.

I fact sharing my journey with all the diffrent aspects of my subconscious, my problems and my tulpa helped me alot and i also hope it helped some others too. And helping to solve problems is one of the biggest reson to create a tulpa for the most people who are here.

 

3, Maybe they are some people who are just roleplaying here but im also a person who says his tulpa start talking the first day of forcing. For me it can be explained with hard isolation and the use of psychedlics which lead into a good case of psychosis and a fast devolping of my tulpa. Maybe they are some people who wont belive me. So? Whats the point?

I know it is true for me and everytime someone is telling you something you should question it, if it can be true or not is something you have to decide but to say this or this person is basicly roleplaying is very superficial in my opinion.

 

Also the brain chemistry is individual for everyone and it is possible to have fast succeses with your tulpa if your brain is pooled like this and a psychosis dosen´t have to be nagative always. It is a science fact. Well my english skills aren´t good enought to go much in detail with the brain chemistry and the basic horminic function which can trigger states like this but if you do some research on the internet and trust some scientist you will probably come to the same the same view on it.

 

Well as i said i dont read many progress reports so i dont know for sure which ones you rely on but as i said you can avoid them and you will always have to face input which aren´t able to help you directly or distract you. But they are people who maybe want to read it and will continue to do it and they are also part of the comunity.

 

Thats my opinion so far dont get me wrong i don´t want to say what you criticize is basicly wrong. I do agree with some points and i also read some bullshit here. On the other hand they will be people who say im writing bullshit. Everyone has to decide on their own what they want to read or not but a good writed roman is also intresting to read but not always helpfull if you know what i mean.

 

PS: I realy like your profile picture (pandora hearts ftw) :)


Just read the things Reisen wrote after i made my answers and we are basicly having the same point.

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Guest amber5885

Omg thank you!

 

I left for a while for the same exact reasons you mentioned and only recently have I begun trolling but in the short time I've been gone it now takes one day to make a tulpa, imposition is instant and if you argue that this isn't exactly true the droves of new people are quick to bully you down. They don't even have an issue doing it to older members!

 

I honesty don't know exactly what to do about it but I try to handle it one topic at a time.

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Well, I'm probably one of the biggest culprits in misusing PRs. I'm not sure I mention making progress anywhere in my PR.

 

For what it's worth though, I enjoy reading about people's lives with their tulpas. I probably link people to Hound's PR more than any other, and it certainly has nothing to do with the progress he made with Claire.

 

Cinemaphobe's PR is one of the most popular at the moment, and every time he's suggested that there's something he feels would be to off-topic to post in his PR, everyone encourages him to post it anyway.

 

My attitude toward PRs has always been that if I don't enjoy reading it, I don't have to. When I click on "View Today's Posts", I skip over most of the PR posts, just like I skip over most of the forum game posts. So I'm a bit puzzled as to why anyone would care what's in other people's PRs.

 


 

As to the other topics, I can't tell when someone's a roleplayer. I mean there's one person I'm pretty sure about, but I can believe that most of the people on here believe what they're saying. I think that some people have mental conditions that they're confusing for tulpas, or mental conditions that make it difficult for them to understand what tulpas are.

 

Truth is, our community warps society's ideas of what's crazy. We see things and talk to voices, and we consider that a good thing. Because of that, we attract people who don't fit society's norms. Sometimes that means we get the crazies. But I don't think these people are going to benefit in any way by being called roleplayers, or told that they don't belong here.

 

I mean, don't encourage people to make a hundred tulpas, but if they have crazy stories of rape and murder in their wonderlands, I think it's better that we encourage them to seek professional help than to just drive them away entirely.

 

But that's just my two cents.

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