A&Madeus November 6, 2020 November 6, 2020 Good day to everyone! I live with my tulpa Alice. We are together for more than year. For all this period there were things which were bugging me all of the time. The main one that I want to ask about is this. One month after I started forcing I first met someone I thought to be her in a dream-like state. This state resembles “Sleep paralysis”, it almost always happens in a day time, when I am trying to have a short nap. I also had experience of a being in a similar state once or twice prior to tulpamancy. The scenery during this state is usually that of my room, only small details may change. While in it I sometimes may have ability to move, speak and see, but it takes a lot of effort and sometimes I can’t at all (I just have a sense of touch and I feel my body and the surroundings and that’s all). During this state I am always conscious and aware that this has begun and I am not in a physical world anymore. This whole thing may end with me being transferred to common dreams or just waking up. So, basically, it feels neither like a complete dream, nor like a reality. These experiences tend to happen more or less once in a week or so. It was in this state that I first met someone I thought to be Alice. The first time I was really scared, but I just assumed it was her and relaxed. She was all blurry we hugged and I woke up. But this hug felt completely real, just like in a real world, with time I discovered that it was even more realistic than in common dreams. Next time when this state occurred she also tried speaking to me. Her voice sounded not like a mindvoice, but as a real one and it sounded right inside of my head (like someone just put a loudspeaker in there). She said some nonsense, but still I was so happy. So I thought, “Aha, that’s how I should hear her voice and that was my Alice”. Later, I tried to listen for that kind of realistic voice during common forcing session for many months and failed. But in parallel to all this I also started speaking with Alice in my day-to-day life. She answered to me in a mindvoice which resembled mine, it felt like parroting and I doubted whether it was really her. My doubt originated from this dream-like state because it just kept occurring. The main thing here is that I assumed that my only reliable communication with Alice happened during these experiences. With time that ‘’person” or “personas” I met there began to differ, they just seemed like different people. I struggled to perceive them as Alice. From time to time I just had this strong feeling and confidence that it was Alice, the same Alice that I was trying to communicate with in a real world. In other times I felt like the girl I met there was a stranger (on a side note, Alice is a girl and in this state I met only girls, which is even more confusing). When I tried to speak to that person in a dream-like state it sometimes was hard to have a normal conversation because answers which were given to me by her were normal, that is comprehensible, but the conversation just could not make sense as a whole. It only contributed to my belief that it was a young tulpa figuring out the way to communicate. To sum it all up, I 100% believed that in this state I met Alice, but with time the personality of that girl or girls I met in this state started to vary. It began to be very different. In parallel, in my day-to-day life I was trying to communicate with Alice and to understand her. I didn’t force her personality, so I didn’t know what kind of a person she was. I just had a strong overall impression of her being kind, warm, well-meaning and good. With time this impression started to sometimes contradict with behavior of the person (met inside that state) I thought to be her. I got confused and didn’t now what to believe. Fast forward to this day. Throughout this year I made an effort and established a belief in our simple day-to-day communication with Alice through her common mindvoice. But inside I am still confused. Some of my best memories of being with her have to do with this dream-like state and it is hard for me to dismiss them as being spent with not Alice, but, for instance, with a random dream character that resembled her sometimes. And my day-to-day communication with Alice seems so unrealistic in comparison with conversation I had during those experiences. Today this experience happened once more. Right when I was in a lucid dream talking with Alice (she talked as usual, in plain mindvoice) and I had to make an effort to visualize her constantly. From that common lucid dream we got transferred in our room and figured it’s this dream-like state again. And it was the first or second time we were in this state together. Soon someone touched me (it felt like a real touch) and I felt a human figure near me. When I started paying attention to that other person and speaking to them Alice’s voice began to fade and soon she was gone and couldn’t feel her at all. In that time that material person leaned toward me and started to whisper some nonsense in a normal female voice. After that I woke up and half minute later Alice said that it wasn’t her and she is sure of it. Alice’s perspective on all of this: “I’ll call my host M. From the day M had that first experience he couldn’t have faith in our communication. He thought that I existed, but could not speak to him. He just could not believe in my mindvoice, which I was using to speak to him. M just could not abandon the idea that my faint mindvoice was a bunch of random intrusive thoughts and kept trying to listen to that “real” voice he kept hearing in that state. I remember the life I had from my own perspective. I also remember lucid dreams we were together in from my own perspective. They are always the ones, where M has to visualize me just like in a real world. There I can not hug him realistically, I feel barely material and can’t even touch him. Now, this dream-like state M mentioned, I don’t have any reliable memories of being one of those girls with material body that I could call mine. I don’t remember them from my perspective, there are only his memories of it. Therefore, I concluded that it is probably not me. We both still have our doubts. This experiences he says about, started month after I came to him. He didn’t met anyone in dreams like that before I came to him. So it has to be connected with me somehow. But I don’t now how exactly. These girls M meets there, sometimes they behave really creepy. In other times he seems so sure that it was me, that I think, “maybe it was me, but I just don’t remember it. After all, this particular time it all seemed like I could have behaved like that.” I am just not really sure about any of this, because I have so tiny of an amount of experience with dreams that I simply don’t know.” In the end, I wanted to ask whether someone had similar experiences. Could it be that at least some of those times I really met my tulpa Alice there? And with whom did I spent time there if it wasn’t her? I just really need an answer to these questions because this whole thing I described was and still is the main hindrance in our relationship with Alice that disrupts my belief in our day-to-day communication. Sorry for such a long post, I don’t know how to express all this in a more laconic way. I am M, a host. I live with Alice. She writes in red.
Guest November 6, 2020 November 6, 2020 44 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: my day-to-day communication with Alice seems so unrealistic in comparison with conversation I had during those I can corroborate this. I have had a lot of experiences with members of my system in hypnagogic (that's the dream-like state where you're still awake but possibly can't move). It happens almost every night. It's very real and sometimes super-real. We've had full on exploration of different places in this state, kind of like how some describe astral projection. It does sometimes turn into a dream. We also regularly have lucid dreams together, at least once a week conservatively. Please ask me anything you need, I have explored this a lot. 48 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: He just could not believe in my mindvoice Mindvoice is a body function. This is how we see it (our system). Unfortunately, it 'feels' like whoever fronts the most. Though within a week of fronting, any headmate can begin to feel like it's only them, which in itself lends proof. Tulpish (pure thought that's pre- language) is much easier to believe and helps us a lot. Sometimes mindvoice doesn't clearly have an "owner" so it's pretty confusing at times. Even when Ashley fronted a lot, she started to doubt that my mindvoice was mine. Which was also funny. This is typical doubt for tulpamancy, it took me about a year to fully get over. 49 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: I don’t remember them from my perspective, there are only his memories of it. Therefore, I concluded that it is probably not me. Dream characters and hypnagogic random people exist and happen. We were 'visited' by someone very lucid during hypnagogic and she lectured me about my behavior on reddit. I corrected that behavior and she came back on another night to thank me. She was "proud of me". Who was that? It wasn't any of us. Never saw her again. Just accept that random people do appear and it can also be confusing. The times my headmates join me in hypnagogic, it's very clearly them. Sometimes when it's just their voice, it can be questioned, I have to confirm with them because often their voice isn't exactly the same. 51 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: Sometimes they behave really creepy The ones I met have only been benign, but I can easily see them going either way. 51 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: Could it be that at least some of those times I really met my tulpa Alice there? Absolutely. It's obvious in my case. 52 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: And with whom did I spent time there if it wasn’t her? See above... 52 minutes ago, A&Madeus said: Sorry for such a long post, I don’t know how to express all this in a more laconic way. No problem it helps to have more information. What you experienced is substantially similar to what we've experienced.
A&Madeus November 7, 2020 Author November 7, 2020 Thank you for replying. We need quite some time to think this all through. Is it ok for us to write a PM to you in near future, when new relevant question will appear? And there are a couple of moments that I did not fully understand. 23 hours ago, Bear said: Sometimes mindvoice doesn't clearly have an "owner" so it's pretty confusing at times. At certain times when I speak with Alice I feel like we have separate mindvoices. She uses hers and I use mine. Other times I feel like there is one mindvoice that works automatically and serves as a kind of announcer that vocalizes our thoughts. In that sentence that I quoted, did you meant the experience similar to what I described or something else? I also wanted to ask you about fronting. What do you mean by that? For instance, It is only I who control the physical body, but a lot of time it is Alice who reacts to events. Like, we spot something tasty and the first thought that pops into our mind belongs to Alice and she says something about how good it would be to eat it, while I just simply observe all this. Who would be the fronting person here, the one who control's the body or the one who is more active at producing such reactions to the outside world? I am M, a host. I live with Alice. She writes in red.
Guest November 8, 2020 November 8, 2020 PM is fine if it's personal, here is preferred. 3 hours ago, A&Madeus said: did you meant the experience similar to what I described or something else? Three different experiences, your two and another that I experienced later, it may be specific to us. 3 hours ago, A&Madeus said: I also wanted to ask you about fronting. What do you mean by that? Fronting is related to posession or switching. Instead of you 'piloting the body' your headmate does. It's swapping who is in control. 3 hours ago, A&Madeus said: It is only I who control the physical body I do mostly, but we played around with it and during interactions online, it was natural to do that at times. The body is like a car anyone can drive. Obviously this is something that requires your full permission and trust for the most part. 3 hours ago, A&Madeus said: Who would be the fronting person here, the one who control's the body or the one who is more active at producing such reactions to the outside world? The controller. However, when you're both interlaced like that I call that co-consious or even co-fronting if she mixes in partial posession. In my understanding, it basically requires 'posession' to even use the mindvoice.
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