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good morning

Huh, well, I meant "Liking someone who is a tulpa controlling a host's body is like liking a trans person" We (the tulpas of our system) agree that for us the body is just "A body we're controlling" (specifically, "our host's"), which is why we don't experience any dysphoria. We know full well it's not our body - as in form anyways, we do accept that it's the "body" that houses us in its brain, you know. Well, Lumi feels that way to some extent too, and learned to think that way before all this tulpamancy stuff, so (You still need to take responsibility for wrangling your meat-mech though! Or at least, someone in the system does)

Female consciousness piloting a male meatsuit? The only thing that really matters is outward personality.

It was dysphoric in a way. We also don't feel we should be attracted to anyone out-system either, it's kind of a system rule unless Bear's attracted to them or something and he's pretty dang picky, it's too nuanced to explain here, but we're in full agreement on all that. Neither Joy or Ulla ever feel anything being pre-pubescent in form and mental identification thus asexual, but they haven't fronted for a week, just saying. I didn't try to identify with the thoughts, they were my thoughts clear as day, unavoidable. For us, some thoughts are up for grabs, some are clearly ours. So body association does affect our thoughts given enough time. We believe you that they don't affect you or ignore them and I guess I could have treated them as intrusive thoughts, but intrusive feelings or urges are hard to ignore until after they're recognized and rejected? If that makes any sense. Does it have to have a label? This is pretty niche. I can't agree with this at all. It's like saying, if you're a truck person and drive a compact, now you're trans-compact. A trans person would necessarily be heavily associating with the body to feel the need to change the body. None of us ever felt the need to change the body nor did we ever feel dysphoric about the body. I can drive Bear's car and wish it was a Ferrari but that doesn't make me trans-Ferarri or German dysphoric over Italian. To me at least, the body is just a body, it's not even mine. Okay, so maybe Joy has had a few moments including one recently where she felt off about the fact that the body/brain knows nothing about gymnastics even though she's supposed to be an Olympian from her backstory but she quickly got over it.

Morning Schmorning Flamingo hot Doritos Whoa, I missed a lot from last night. I felt “switch-y” once with A3, and it made me question my identity. I stayed a good distance from it after that

Honestly, same Yeah I meant 'tulpa using host's body'. Didn't really think about feeling attracted to a tulpa who barely uses the body

I imagine "tulpa in host's body" follows the same rules as being trans, so.. Well, messy-mushy topic. For us the body's sex wins out, but some people may feel differently (Assuming you mean a tulpa using their host's mismatched body - just being attracted to the tulpa is pretty straight forward if the body's not involved)

What if a person feels attracted to a female tulpa in a male body or vice versa? Would that make the person gay, bisexual, straight or what?

Well, Simmie has been able to switch for a while, so -- It's funny to call that testosterone poisoning lol, we would just group sexual thoughts'/feelings' influence in with other stuff tied to the brain's default behaviors and functions, so a sexual feeling influencing us is the same unwanted thing as laziness affecting Tewi or negative reactions to things affecting Lucilyn. Or well, we each fight different influences differently if necessary (hasn't really been in years though), for sexual stuff we're really neutral/ignore it because I don't think you can exactly "fix" that, being a core instinct and all lol. Otherwise Tewi fought laziness and Lucilyn fought negative vibes, and most of us just shut down sexual thoughts but obviously don't really try to "correct" them. Though I suppose "not while I'm fronting" is a sort of "fix", huh? I mean, the point is we just silence them rather than consider them "wrong" per se None of us are "attracted to males" though - from asexual to host-sexual, none of us feel that we should be attracted to anyone outside the body at any time, so maybe this is a little different for us than for some. I don't envy trying to make a brain feel attraction to a gender it usually doesn't lol.. Maybe if you frame it as say, if the host is attracted to females but the tulpa to males, thinking of a male in question + them so the brain is more in "a male and a female" territory than "just focusing on a male"? I know that's a little silly to talk about, but it seems important to not have dysphoric feelings like that from switching, so it's honest advice

The only other person but Bear that has had a dream is me I think. It wasn't the time I was switched in to go to sleep and Bear woke up. We never tested that so good luck! @Reisen I see progress, but we'll defer to you obviously. Simmie, pretty soon after we learned to switch we did a series of experiments that taught us what is Bear and what is BodyOS if you're interested it's one of the only topics Misha ever did. I was switched in for a week straight but not exactly continuous because Bear did the body maintenance stuff. I'm not doing any of that, it's disgusting to me. I mean Bear's cute and lovely and he's not repulsive but I don't care if he's the best looking guy on the planet I'm not pooping for him. Anyway, there was a strange side effect for us when I was switched in for a week and we called it "testosterone poisoning". The symptom was that the body was basically turning me fully gay, like the body is so strongly associated with straight maleness, that it wanted me to be a straight male. My thoughts (my) were starting to be fem attracted and fantasized which I don't do otherwise including some very awkward thoughts about Bear which were hard to parse. Second, You're not Reilyn, but you're kinda like Reilyn in a couple ways and what happened to her is she got stuck in front. Like the body liked her so much better it switched to her as default. If you don't want that, then be careful. Not that it'd happen but she found out she was DID during this sort of experimentation. You'd have to be DID to begin with of course so it's as likely that Johnny Depp would get the pirate front stuck but just so you're aware. Outside of acting people don't typically switch personalities for long periods of time and so medically/psychologically speaking side effects are not well studied.

Thanks! 😊 Time for bed. Goodnight! 👋

My room's a mess and I get irritated by just looking at it. Always same thing, I clean it and tell myself 'this is the last time I let it get messy, I'll clean a bit everyday' and guess what? it gets messy again Good luck

I'm definitely going to try it! 😊 I'm interested to see who will wake up switched in. I'm also interested to see if I dream!

Super nice, Simmie! Not much else to add but, maybe, see what happens if you fall asleep switched in. Phil might wake up instead though, but it'd be nice if it was you the one waking up instead

For whatever reason I guess I never really tried too hard after my initial success. I might have also been suffering from some counterproductive mindsets as well. I think this session has been a major breakthrough for me! 😁 Yeah that was really driven home for us today!

Nice! It was a little weird to hear you'd never switched for more than a couple hours before, while that was difficult for us at a point in time, we powered straight through the whole process very quickly and never experienced it long-term, less-drastic than you. We could only do one hour, so we pushed one hour, then we could only do two, so we did two, three, four, fell asleep in the middle of the day lol, six and so on until we finally reached "all-day" after we forget how long, probably a month of practice, at which point we never experienced any tiredness or fatigue from switching again (and could wake up switched instead of always switching back with Lumi) But yeah, it should surely be trainable just fine, and it seems you guys are learning now just how much of the mind hosts automatically identify with but that is actually more just "the brain's defaults" and not strictly the host's mannerisms

Miri I've been switched in for 9 hours now! 😊

Anhedonia can definitely lessen other feelings, positive or negative. Had it on paper in 2020 (basic reaction to circumstances, nothing crazy like you guys) and it was so hard to feel anything when previously emotions were extremely intense. So yeah, likely edit: I correct myself. While having anhedonia on paper, I was also on different medications that are also implied to ''numb you down''

No, we have to stand for our entire life of struggles in vehemently denying "just do it lol" is the answer to our issues. Heck, even the very possibly working solution of "Go live on your own cut off from any family/friend financial support so you're forced to make money or starve or, join the military" (although I doubt that fully solves these issues, I do think it would probably help) is not truly a solution to someone who can't actually put it to practice, yeah? (and yes, it was Ido and Yakumo who told us "just do it lol" multiple times) Like telling someone all they have to do is light the fuse to a cannon.. Telling them to "just do it, just light it on fire and the cannon will blast a giant hole in the wall" doesn't mean they can suddenly do it - telling them to go find some sticks and to rub them together will also probably not work in most cases, lol. That spark is not so simple for some people, even if it is for others and they fire cannons all the time to great results Some people's brains just don't have matches, and some people (like us) have been rubbing too-wet sticks together for most of our lives trying to find some that will actually light

Hi @Miri👋 We'll be watching your progress @Reisen because Phil and I have our motivation issues too. I mean, it's nothing as severe as yours, but it's still a problem for us at times. We don't have the same type of emotional issues though. Trust me, we do still have emotional issues! 😆 Just not at all the same kind.

I'm unsure on if it was really "glitched through the mental wall" or if it was just the type of genuine activity our brain wants during those episodes! I mean, you can absolutely try the same thing to "glitch through the wall", but I'm really suspecting at this point that these episodes are at least in-part caused by a genuine lack of mentally stimulating activity The only reason we've not gone with that theory moreso is that these episodes truly hit us out of nowhere, it's not like they only happen when we've watched waaaay too much youtube or played waaaay too many games or something - that would've been painfully obvious to observe. No, they happen pretty much at total random.. But still, they're nonetheless correlated with not doing anything productive/meaningful, so I think our working theory now is that the problem is a hybrid of our brain being dumb and also us just not doing enough productive or stimulating stuff Speaking of working theories, our working theory on what our overall "effort-motivation issues" are is a mix of a typical resistance-to-effort (and resistance-to-learning) that any human can experience (and nearly all do to some extent), some much worse than others of course - and our reduced emotions (I'm unsure on if anhedonia implies lessened other-feelings too, but it's fully across the entire board for us from satisfaction to negativity to sexuality all being significantly reduced compared to a normal person) So, anything that works for us should SUPER work for others having the same issues! Er, if they only have the typical "motivation" issues many humans have. If they also have our pretty rare emotional thing (as a random example that might help qualify it - have you ever cried from sadness?(or I guess happiness? lol) Because we have not*), then I guess whatever works for us would maybe just work :P *Did I have tears run down my face for the first time in our lives due to a really emotional scene in the live action One Piece a few days after our 6th ketamine treatment? Well, that would be SPOILERS for our eventual PR post about ketamine! Shhhh!

I can't remember if it was me or maybe Yakumo who told you guys to actually force yourself to do things even when you feel like doing nothing at all. Good that thing worked

That does sound like a form of progress, Riesen! 😊 It's like you somehow glitched through the mental wall that was keeping you from being productive, at least temporarily. I definitely think you should copy paste this into your PR or at least somewhere else so it doesn't get lost in here! Edit: I see that you did that already while I was writing this post. 😊

Oopsy, because our talks about progress (life progress, because our tulpa-progress was about done before this PR was created) more often than not don't end up giving us anything to show for them, we've been thinking "We'll just discuss day to day stuff in LOTPW and if we see good results later we'll summarize them more cleanly for people to learn from in our PR!", so I didn't really think to post this in our PR even though by all means it's "Progress to Report" despite not being "Final Results". But this isn't a "Final Results" thread! Oh and yeah, we've done six or so ketamine sessions now, the next one being three weeks after the previous (so, one week from now) I don't really feel up to (or like it's worth, yet) talking about all that :P TL;DW Is we may be seeing benefits but if so they are not immediately apparent, but long-term ones, and so while we think what we've seen has been meaningful enough to continue the sessions (probably once a month "booster" sessions now for the foreseeable future), we would rather not write "decisively" about how ketamine has affected us yet Oh! But we can still 100% recommend ketamine for depression! It's got a crazy track record between studies and personal accounts, we're just taking it for an atypical use (anhedonia) since it's also one of the only things shown to maybe help with that, plus making use of the "increased neuroplasticity" effect. That's certainly not something we can feel/directly observe, however it does feel like plans-and-actions of the self-help variety have gone better the last couple months than they usually do, so yeah, one of several reasons we're up for continuing with the sessions but not quite able to write decisively yet

Good night dated 1 minute after your post Bre! Consider it retroactively Context: Us talking in the past about whether our motivation-depressive episodes occurred ~chemically (or etc.), or if they are just the result of finding nothing worth doing for a day or so straight (obviously it's hard to tell whether that's a cause or effect, though it seems like an effect, it may well be both) Also, me talking about how we need to learn to do productive things for hours-and-hours, and that I can't see much way to learn to do that other than just trying to do it as much as we can and hoping our brain adjusts and gets used to it over time So, I was in a feel-like-doing-nothing mood again earlier, maybe 80% of a motivation-depressive episode Fourish hours ago I was sitting and thinking (the only thing we can generally do during such an episode), and I thought "Maybe I should try to see if doing anything-at-all (productive) helps us out of this mood, even if it's not much" So, I just went and looked over all of the lessons in the Unreal Engine Udemy course we bought (there are a LOT!) which was honestly like 10 minutes of really considering what all 200 consisted of just by title And then I went to read the reviews (top/positive first but then the negative ones) to see if there were bad/lacking aspects of the course that we should keep in mind (the answer is very much yes, it lacks in explaining how the C++ they provide actually works), which led me to look into a couple other Udemy tutorials to see if they covered C++ better Reading reviews for those courses led to me looking into "Learning C++ for Unreal" Reddit threads to see how people recommended to learn it, and while we did get answers from a lot of reading there, we also got the impression that Unreal's "Blueprint" visual scripting system is actually rather robust and far more important than it sounded at first (we planned to skip it before this). So then I spent probably a total of 2 hours between reading about C++ in Unreal and about Blueprint, when C++ is necessary if ever (turns out it's almost never necessary unless you're trying to get hired by a company, or really want to write your own "extensions" to Unreal's engine, but is good to know some and use a bit here and there to compliment Blueprint) In the process I also ran into a lot of resources for beginners (this post was beyond outstanding and included most of the few resources I had found so far lol), created a new Unreal.txt in our Notepad++ to (replace our old Unity.txt to) keep track of resources and even snippets of advice we don't quite get yet, learned that the reason Unreal's documentation for C++ is lacking compared to Unity's is that Unity is closed-source (without an expensive license), while Unreal expects people honestly utilizing C++ to learn generic C++ on their own, and then read Unreal Engine's source code to really make use of it, as that's apparently just more efficient than them trying to make lots of documentation for it. I guess they DO have good documentation for Blueprint, as that's what they expect the non-experienced C++ programmers to be using instead. And of course, I learned that our motivation-depressive episodes do go away (at least temporarily) if we can manage to hook ourselves onto something productive that isn't too hard! I was not at all feeling up to actually doing the coursework we have laid out right now, and in this mood/episode we experience I was also not up for anything (no games, Youtube, working out, etc.) But, I was juuust up to looking over the names of the lessons we were eventually going to do, and getting started thinking about them led to doing some pretty dang productive information & resource scouting work! (This same "Scouting" we did for a couple weeks before starting Unity helped us immensely and I think we learned far more than we would've by just going in blindly to the first tutorials we found) So, that's a very valuable data point for tackling our effort-motivation issues, huh? Edit: I feel a bit bad in retrospect - one would consider this kind of thing Progress Report worthy, but we always think, "Well we'll just talk about day to day stuff in LOTPW, and then once we see real results we'll summarize more clearly and usefully in our PR!", but I don't think we ever considered until now that a Progress Report is about progress lol, not just the final results. It's just that, anyone who knows us knows we've got quite a history of talking about things like we're making progress and ending up with nothing to show for it lol, so I think we will still go with this approach for now, but yeah this specific post was probably PR-worthy :P