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Beginner questions that won't leave my mind


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Hi, I am absolute beginner and I'm almost 100% sure I will dedicate to creation of my tulpa, but I wanted some specific personal answers before I can commit to it fully.

I don't mean any offense by any means, already apologizing beforehand if it sounds mean to ask such questions.

I wanted a full concept to input in my brain of "What exactly is a tulpa"

1: Is it safe to assume it's like an alter ego of mine that will gain sentience after X time? (I still don't know how to address to my tulpa with proper respect, are they another person or another part of me,  since they need my mind to keep being alive)

2:is it safe for long term mental health to have a tulpa? (it always sounds so awesome to actually have one, but I keep being afraid my sanity could drop the more I get involved with it)

3:Which is the proper way to address to my tulpa to show proper respect to them (similar answer to question 1 can answer them both there if you want)

thanks for giving me attention, feel free to answer in any way you like!

 

edit:remember it's a personal question, answers can be subjective (or not, I am a beginner after all and I'm curious)

Edited by HoldenToledo
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  • HoldenToledo changed the title to Beginner questions that won't leave my mind

1. It can be like that. In the classic sense of alter ego anyway.

 

I don't have experience with this other than recognizing it after my system was mature.

 

2. This is tricky because any practice that involves introspection and or meditation can amplify what's already there under the surface. In my experience, no. I believe it can be a trigger to expose mental illness though, maybe even a gentle way. They can also help with mental illness. My systemmates certainly helped me.

 

3. I doubt most headmates would just let you call them "hey you" for any length of time, you two will figure that out together. We started with temporary names.

 

I don't normally address them, I sometimes do only if I don't feel them around and I wish to summon them, usually that's only for characters or immature headmates, we all have a really good connection otherwise.

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1: Is it safe to assume it's like an alter ego of mine that will gain sentience after X time? (I still don't know how to address to my tulpa with proper respect, are they another person or another part of me,  since they need my mind to keep being alive)

A tulpa can have varying levels of connectedness or separateness from you by default, and this is usually dependent on your expectations more than anything else. If you view them from the start as an alter ego they are more likely to be more integrated into your experiences and memory, and might always consider themselves part of your identity. The traditional mindset here is that even early on you'd normally treat them totally separately from yourself to cause them to be more different from you. But it's ultimately entirely up to you which you'd prefer.

 

I also personally think they're immediately sentient, but just lack in complexity early on. Meanwhile hosts that struggle to hear their tulpas are likely struggling to find the right mindset where they are actually letting their tulpa speak autonomously or blocking out attempts at communication with doubt. I'd hypothesize the reason some people are able to get to a vocal tulpa super quick is because people who are more suggestible find it easier to reach that stage of acceptance.

 

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2:is it safe for long term mental health to have a tulpa? (it always sounds so awesome to actually have one, but I keep being afraid my sanity could drop the more I get involved with it)

I don't think tulpamancy itself is unsafe for long term mental health. That being said, if you already have a mental health condition, particularly ones related to not being able to easily regulate the strength and reality of intrusive thoughts - those seem to cause some dangerous issues alongside tulpamancy, which as a process involves a lot of engagement with thoughts that otherwise such people would be better off trying to reduce. Other issues seem to be helped by having a tulpa.

 

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3:Which is the proper way to address to my tulpa to show proper respect to them (similar answer to question 1 can answer them both there if you want)

An odd question to me. This is a being that's going to end up sharing your mind - You can and should treat them with kindness, but you won't be able to maintain any sort of formality with them in the long run I reckon, and it's not necessary either. Don't worry about your intentions being misread - tulpas can feel the emotions underlying thoughts directed at them as if they were their own thoughts. They'll understand the intentions behind your actions even if they're actions that could be seen as offensive in a normal social circumstance. They will not presume malice from you.

If you just mean "What should I call them?", though, I started with selected name, and then encouraged them to choose their own when they were vocal.

Edited by Ranger
Removed unecessary formatting

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking.

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thanks u both for the fantastic answers, this really opened my mind more as i have not thought this way specifically, very nice!

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1. Define sentience. Traditionally, sentience means self-awareness, in which case the answer is no. Tulpamancy is, at its core, training yourself to do two things: to think like another person, and to interpret those thoughts as coming from a source other than yourself. Tulpas appear self-aware, but then again, so can AI. Sentience is often used in the tulpa community to refer to autonomy, which any alter ego, roleplay character, imaginary friend, etc. can develop, but it isn't true sentience (self-awareness).

 

2. Depends. I've heard they can help with depression, for example. On the other hand, OCD and tulpamancy are a dangerous combination, at least from my own experience. (I can link you to posts I've made on the topic, if you're interested.)

 

3. That's like asking what's the proper way to address your friends or your family. It varies, and the answer is really "whatever works for you".

I come out of hibernation once in a blue moon.

 

They/them pronouns, please. (I've been using this display name since 2012 and people won't recognize me if I change it.)

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On 5/2/2021 at 7:54 PM, fennecgirl said:

1. Define sentience. Traditionally, sentience means self-awareness, in which case the answer is no. Tulpamancy is, at its core, training yourself to do two things: to think like another person, and to interpret those thoughts as coming from a source other than yourself. Tulpas appear self-aware, but then again, so can AI. Sentience is often used in the tulpa community to refer to autonomy, which any alter ego, roleplay character, imaginary friend, etc. can develop, but it isn't true sentience (self-awareness).

 

This statement is nonsensical. You define sentience as self-awareness and then say Tulpas don't possess it arbitrarily? Based on what exactly? Tulpas possess self-awareness if they are able to understand themselves and adapt, which they do. Furthermore if an AI has an emergent generally applicable intelligence, it too has sentience under that definition. You seem to be applying some form of mysticism to the concept which implies the only valid identity in the brain is the host ego, and that's completely baseless. The initial ego starts off bigger and more complete but it's not meaningfully different from any other identity the brain cooks up. It can also be altered, seemingly split, entirely destroyed through ego-death, and replaced by the mind rebooting itself afterwards. In essence, if a tulpa is an illusion, so are you.

 

You're essentially making a claim that tulpas are Philosophical Zombies with this, and that very concept is flawed. Sentience is an emergent property of brains, brains themselves don't inherently possess them except as a whole. There is no way to create a Philosophical Zombie because there is no way to produce the same reactions an identity has without Qualia. There is also no way to describe a construct of thought as being non-sentient, because the only real qualifier of sentience is that something thinks. Again. It's a thought-construct. It is by definition thinking.

 

Sapience though? That might be a bit more nuanced to discussed. I think that early tulpas do not possess true sapience, and need to develop their models through at least several months of input before they can be said to be broaching the complexity of their hosts. Sapience in this context simply being "as roughly as intelligent as another human".

Edited by ZenAndMika

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking.

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I have started a new thread to further discuss the issues raised.

 

 

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