Trauma, Amnesia, Derealization. Are these even tulpas?

[Dust_lostt]

Hey, so…  I think that SOME of my headmates might be tulpas and some might be something else.  I’m starting to doubt if Cetus, Luna, and Oliver are tulpas.  Because you put work and effort into making a tulpa, and they were already made when they formed.  Cetus, or at least, someone LIKE Cetus, has been with me since I was at the earliest of my memory, 12.  A big strong monster to help fight of the monsters that were hurting me.  This monster has always resembled my own form (which has never resembled my body) but much bigger and very much not me.  I frequently got/get spotty amnesia of his actions.  Especially when they are out of his instincts.  He also has access to painful memories that I cannot access without asking him.  I am unsure of how long Luna has been around.  I realized she wasn’t me a few months ago, when she showed me a picture of herself in my head.  When she first made it clear to me that she was a separate person from myself, she was almost completely nonverbal, except for her singing.  She continued to be this specific form of semi-verbal for a while and only recently found her voice.  These two have personalities that are vastly different from mine.

 

then there’s Oliver.  Who is very hard to distinguish from myself for some reason.  The lines between myself and him are extremely blurry.  But we are two different consciousnesses.  He is the age I was when a major traumatic event happened to me and has the bad habits I had back then.  He does not remember the traumatic event.  Frankly I only remember said event as a fact.  It caused a lot of big things to happen in my life, so I remember the event as a concept.  But I don’t remember the event as a personal experience.  He’s very hurt and is suffering, like he’s constantly suffering all the feelings experienced in that event.  He seems to have vivid, personal connections to…  is this trauma his?  I have no personal or emotional association to these memories that he does.  He just.  He seems stuck.  Like he’s living in that past for eternity.  Sometimes it feels like I’m not even the host.  Like he is the host.  I feel like I’m just something that was made so we could continue moving forward.

 

Ebony is (at least based on) the girl I had to pretend to be as a child (I am AFAB transgender).  She is also almost identical to a “character” i had, named Pink.  They even have the same voice and similar fashion senses.  She used to be credited for intrusive thoughts I had calling me a loser and weak and worthless.  She was also credited with the thoughts which told me to kill myself when I was at that point in my life.  She’s likely a tulpa or something similar.

anyways, I’ve noticed that I experience symptoms of dissociative disorders and I was wondering if anyone knew anything that could help me.  I plan on seeking professional help when I get the opportunity.  I’m just looking for information.

oh yeah, PMs open if you’d like to talk about it there.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Dust_lostt

[MadMax]

I am evolving in my personal spirituality, believing that my past, present, and future selves are individual people. I DO NOT plan on making tulpas of either. these 2 elements of my spirituality have arisen independently and I do not plan on them crossing paths (currently). I created my current tulpa by accident threw years of self-talk and fantasy Mental imagery. I can recognize that and have recently put concious effort into developing her. I have two other Semi-sentient fragments of my tulpa that she spawned and personifies. one is from a past fantacy, and another is a completely original being with no input from myself. I know they are not Tulpas unless I choose to develop them further. I know my tulpa has the uncanny ability to create fragments of herself spontaneously, she has been watching my life for a very long time and staying quiet, I have only known about her sentients for about 4 days but I need to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand.   to me, if i were to spot another entity that does not have any explanation of their origin between me and my tulpa, I would be worried as to their origin. she is watching me type this even now and has already agreed to stop for safety considerations. 

 

it doesnt seem like what your describing are tulpas. They sound more like alters from DID possibly braught on by PTSD. If i were to be in your situation. I would seriously have a sit-down round table discussion with everyone and put everything out on the table. try to pin down exactly when everyone showed up. My daughter recently admited to me that she has an imaginary anti-friend. basically a personified demon that has been saying mean things to her. She does have PTSD and Anxiety disorder along with suicidal ideations and tendencies, she is only 11 years old so i don't think she has a tulpa.  

[Dust_lostt]

15 minutes ago, closet_slave said:

it doesnt seem like what your describing are tulpas. They sound more like alters from DID possibly braught on by PTSD. If i were to be in your situation. I would seriously have a sit-down round table discussion with everyone and put everything out on the table. try to pin down exactly when everyone showed up. My daughter recently admited to me that she has an imaginary anti-friend. basically a personified demon that has been saying mean things to her. She does have PTSD and Anxiety disorder along with suicidal ideations and tendencies, she is only 11 years old so i don't think she has a tulpa.  

 

I can’t exactly have a sit down with them, they have their own wills and they don’t really want to listen to me.  It took me long enough just to get their names and appearances.  Oliver is the only one who listens to me and it’s probably just because he’s younger than me.  And even he hesitated to give me his name for HOURS after I asked.  He ony just showed me his true form today (he’s a shapeshifter who impersonates others to run from being himself).

 

I have a diagnosis for PTSD but I’ve never been diagnosed with DID and prefer not to self-diagnose as I am not a doctor.

Honestly what she’s describing just sounds like personified intrusive thoughts.  I had something similar at around her age.

[MadMax]

2 minutes ago, Dust_lostt said:

Honestly what she’s describing just sounds like personified intrusive thoughts.  I had something similar at around her age.

 

Agreed. I had suggested she either try to change the narrative between her and this demon. or create her own positive imaginary friend to try and drown out the intrusive thoughts. with your experience would this be a good path to suggest? 

[Dust_lostt]

Just now, closet_slave said:

 

Agreed. I had suggested she either try to change the narrative between her and this demon. or create her own positive imaginary friend to try and drown out the intrusive thoughts. with your experience would this be a good path to suggest? 

honestly trying to fight it at all is pointless.  My advice is to give it as little power as possible.  I used to say mine was weak because all it ever did was say mean shit and never actually hurt me.  It was all talk.  Reminding yourself that those thoughts don’t carry any weight to who you are as a person is helpful.  I would recommend looking up guides on intrusive thoughts.  I would not recommend treating these thoughts like an entity.  They’re just thoughts.  Rogue chemical reactions in the brain.  It’s just your brain processing information in a weird way.  I wouldn’t recommend making a “stronger imaginary” either.  It’s better if you tell yourself that YOU are the stronger one.  You’re stronger than some silly thoughts.  Luna gives me this advice occasionally.  I would recommend seeking out a therapist for your daughter.  Try to find one your daughter trusts.  A licensed professional with a focus on your daughter would be more helpful than a stranger on the internet.  I would recommend a specialist in trauma.  If your daughter is into art, maybe look into someone who does art therapy.

[MadMax]

@Dust_lostt Thank you for the advice. She is already seeing a therapist, already on meds, already into art. this is just the first time in a multi-year ordeal that she admitted her intrusive thoughts had assumed a personified form.  I will make sure she addresses this issue with her therapist directly and honestly.

 

With your situation, having such strong willed entities that they don't agree to a communal sit-down moment is disturbing to me. I have only been in this community for a couple days but i know that is not a good sign. almost all Tulpas are borderline polyamorus with their fellow headmates and host. I hope your experience fairs out after seeking further professional help. 

[Dust_lostt]

@closet_slave

trying to ask them when they formed is like trying to ask you when you were born.  If you had never been told the date of your birth, do you think you would know how to answer?

 

hading off to bed, good night

Edited April 1, 2022 by Dust_lostt

[MadMax]

True, just a thought. Heading over to Tulpas only

[Zen 禅]

You should chiefly understand that we definitely aren't equipped to diagnose you. That needs a proper set of questions done in a clinical setting by a professional working to exacting standards. We can only really talk about tulpas as they relate to alters in general, not whether you have one or the other. As a matter of fact, it's possible to give someone all the symptoms of a dissociative disorder by using long term suggestion, hypnosis, and the like, even just by telling you about it and you starting to check the boxes on whether or not you have those things. It can happen in cases where people are brainwashed or even in cases where a therapist is actively trying to "find" symptoms of dissociative disorders without being properly diligent. I would also honestly suggest that you stay far, far away from any sort of DID community if you do suspect it, because the unifying factor of dissociative disorders is suggestibility, and other people using the internet rather than therapy to rationalize their DID are not people you want to be absorbing your ideas from on what a dissociative system is or has to look like in order to be healthy. I'm glad that you have the intention of seeking some proper help on this, because ultimately it's not understanding the nature of tulpas or alters themselves that will help you.

To talk about tulpas and alters and how they relate though, they are fundamentally the same thing. There is no difference between an alter and a tulpa in any concrete sense. Some of the dissociative disorders are traumatic, but not all, and it's notable with regards to the traumatic ones that occur in early life that they effect brain development. As I mentioned the visible outcome of this is in suggestibility - the ability to absorb information and have that information actually effect you. One of the theories surrounding how DID actually forms as a thing a kid does to themselves is by giving themselves a long-term suggestion that "This isn't happening." or possibly specifically "...to me." Fundamentally this is tulpamancy, if correct, but wrapped up in the pain of repeated trauma, and used as an escape mechanism. And since these adaptations become part of brain structure due to doing them so early they become essentially permanent skills. If someone with DID turns their mind to intentional tulpamancy they can do so pretty easily. As a matter of fact, people with dissociative disorders are at risk of doing this accidentally, if they know they have DID and are "looking" for evidence of additional trauma, because they are innately skilled at tulpamancy and really only need to repeat an action they are very very good at. It's important to understand that an alter isn't themselves the trauma you are dealing with - This misundertanding does unfortunately lead to "polyfragmented" systems that in pursuing some of understanding of themselves with the wrong idea of what they are doing, generate literally hundreds of identities and start collecting them and even naming them, even as it becomes increasingly clear that each one absolutely is neither unique nor is actually associated with a specific traumatic event, though they may claim to be because of presumptions built into them, in the same way as a tulpa with fictional memories.

Edited April 1, 2022 by ZenAndRhys

[Guest]

You can convince yourself of a great many things. The healthiest mindset should be chosen if possible.