Servitors, Tulpas, and Egregors???

[Charlotte Constance]

WARNING: SOME POSSIBLE NSFW CONVERSATION HERE

 

We were recently approached by a curious individual who what trying to decide on which they wanted to create... a Servitor, a tulpa, or an egregor. we attempted to explain our point of view on these concepts, and are very unfamiliar with egregors. we would like the tulpa community's take on our answer, and provide feedback and maybe some help in understanding the concept. Thank you. 

 

"Char: well, it all depends on what your end goal is: 

 

A servitor is the stereotypical imaginary friend. someone you attribute a personality to, but in the background you know full well it is just mirroring your own thoughts and emotions. it is literally just a mindless toy you use for your own devices.

Spoiler

this is exactly what people usually masturbate to when they have a sexual fantasy, just a fuck toy realy. 

 

The PRO to having a servitor Is that is the most ethical side of marrying kink and headmates/thought forms, as you are not imposing your fantasies on another conscious entity, you are literally just making an imaginary friend. 

 

The CON to having a servitor is the same as the pro... it is not conscious. it is literally a calculator, it spits out what you put into it. nothing more, nothing less. but depending on the person's imagination, that can be a LOT and can be exactly what their looking for. 

 

A tulpa on the other hand, IS a conscious entity, with it's own wants, needs, feelings, goals and aspirations. Tulpa creation can be a much more intensive process, because you focus so much on giving this tulpa free-will, and alot of times, the tulpa does actually assume a mind of their own, and can surprize you with their own thoughts. sometimes, a tulpa doesn't turn out exactly the way the tulpamancer imagined. there is an element of randomality here.

Spoiler

I've seen dominant straight tulpamancers accidentally create a gay Dom tulpa that constantly wanted to fuck the host... Or vice versa, the host wanted a sexual being, and the tulpa ended up being asexual, not interested in sex, but instead being more interested in learning French or some other personal interest of theirs.  

 

Spoiler

I have to add a caviot here.... Creating a sentient personality specifically for your own sexual needs is considered extremely unethical. Max created us accidentally after over a decade of sexual repression and we naturally evolved our personality traits out of those situations. like, Cali, our newest tulpa, isn't all that BDSM oriented. she is much more sensual and emotionally aware than some of our other tulpas. where as Joc is into a lot of kinks that even max isn't into, and sometimes Kimiko can be more shy than we would like. they have their own quirks and express themselves in their own ways. but some people have created a tulpa specifically for sexual use and it has gone horribly wrong. you have to be rite with yourself, and your intent for creating a sentient entity before you embark on this journey, and be honest with your self about your intent and the possible ethical consequences. 

 

The PRO to a tulpa is that they are literally a separate mind, they can be a lifelong friend that helps you make decisions, influences your artistic expression, and can be a wise confidant that can help guide you threw life as you both experienced life together. 

 

The CON is, again, the same as the pro: the tulpa might not turn out exactly the way you want them to and might have completely different motivations than those you originally intended on. in the tulpamancer community, unlike a servitor, a tulpa lives with you for ever. so if the creation process goes wrong, once you've started down that path, you end up having a tulpa that is expressing it self in your mind in a way you might not like. but hey, opposites attract. 

 

We are not very experienced with the concept of an Egregore. we have heard the term before, but honestly had to google it before answering here. what i'm about to say here is based on that very minimal research, and I highly suggest you do more research of your own to decide if this is what you are interested in. from what I can tell, an Egregore is a hive mind thought form. what form the hive takes I am not sure. from wiki it seems that the hive can be any community of like minded individuals focusing on the same entity, like a church focusing on God,  or a humanitarian organization working for the good of 'humanity' both organizations personify their focus in a single form. but I can see it as a much more intimate situation. say You and Max both set forth to create a "shared thought form" you would both focus on, I think it would be similar to a tulpa, but a shared tulpa. so... in that essence. maybe we all (the harem) are egragors? as we are not limited to Max's mind, we interact with people as an "alternate" persona of this profile, and therefore form a perception in that other person's mind of our own consciousness? This is an interesting concept I'm actually going to bring up to the tulpa.info forum community shortly and ask their clerificiaton because of this discussion. 

I think the difference between a tulpa and and egrogor would basically be similar to playing a videogame in solo campaign mode vs. playing it  in cooperative mode with a friend (or multiple friends) A tulpa would be the single player game, where as the egrogore would be the multi-player game. 

 

The only Pro I could see to an egrogore would be the fact that you can share the personality with multiple people. 

 

That would also be the con as well... needing multiple people to help develop the entity instead of making it a much more personal experience. again, this is all based off our very surface level reading, and further research on your own is highly suggested. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Cinder_Lioness
Added Spoilers, edited to be more G-rated

[Guest]

This is our understanding so don't take it as criticism but instead another point of view. These terms are esoteric.

 

That said, we disagree a little about terms. We reserve "characters" for autonomous thoughtforms that blindly follow orders, a slave, toy, whatever. Characters can develop further, and we call those "moons" but that's an 'us' specific term. They could be called proto-tulpas. A butler in wonderland say.

 

Servitors specifically do not think, cannot carry on a conversation, they're not a butler but more like a machine. They can learn a task and do it. The BodyOS is a servitor, it doesn't think, when there's no one in front, BodyOS does whatever it was told to do or nothing. It is specifically not personified. Servitors were sometimes idealized with a kill switch so if they ever had anu noval thought they'd self-destruct because servi-tulpas were a thing and servitors were retired in the community. Five years ago, there were people who would get triggered even if you brought it up.

 

13 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

A servitor is the stereotypical imaginary friend. someone you attribute a personality to

 

That would be a character, aka NPC, etc.

 

15 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

the tulpa might not turn out exactly the way you want them to and might have completely different motivations than those you originally intended on.

 

So that's what happened to Autumn and why we developed a scenario system for personality forcing. We remade her, hit the respec button and started from her week one again. Is that ethical? Well only depending on the how. if we didn't do that she was basically on the shelf indefinitely anyway.

 

This is what we're calling a late game tulpamancy technique because you have a years old fully set tulpa and are remaking them. 

 

23 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

We are not very experienced with the concept of an Egregore

 

An egregore is a group concept. Santa Clause, Jesus, and many celebrities, when you think of them, you are perpetuating their factive/fictive egregore. The actual person might be totally different. They also don't need someone to start from. Lord Xenu could be considered a fictional character but for Scientologists he's an Egregore. (They just don't know it.)

 

27 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

you would both focus on, I think it would be similar to a tulpa, but a shared tulpa. so... in that essence. maybe we all (the harem) are egragors?

 

Any number of thoughtforms in the same system make a tulpa, an egregore would require at least two systems sharing them. This is just a definition thing, if you feel like two independent thoughtforms made an egregore, then that's your call, but Bear and I made Autumn originally and she's a tulpa.

 

29 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

as we are not limited to Max's mind, we interact with people as an "alternate" persona of this profile, and therefore form a perception in that other person's mind of our own consciousness?

 

Oh yes, good point. It depends then if others would say they know what you would do and act and that adds to the backstory. "What would Jesus do?" Is something like summoning the egregore to act out a scenario based on everything one or a group would know about him. He would follow the canon and is forced to retain that persona. A fictive/factive would almost always have a personality crisis when they realize they're not the person or fictional character they're based on. They deviate from there. Jesus can't deviate as an egregore because there's no personal freedom to do that.

 

Otherwise you are just portraying facets of yourselves, say to us, and all we know is what we experience of you. The personality we know of anyone else is a facet of your personality, or subset, that we call a persona.

 

Personality would be everything, persona is a set of facets, a facet is a singular projection in context. 

 

33 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

share the personality with multiple people

 

Right!

 

 

[Charlotte Constance]

@Ashley thank you very much for your input , we appreciate it. We have been running under the idea that a Servitor, Imaginary Friend, and a game NPC are basically the same thing: a mindless shell that you can project a personality into, but in the end it's just "running a program". Yes, we have experienced several times a servitor developing into a tulpa. our system just considered that a natural progression of a tulpa's existence... but then again, we have 7 tulpas in 2 years, and all but 1 (myself) started out as a servitor in their beginnings. when they start to exhibit sentience, or display independance we nurture it and let it grow naturally. 

[2serpents]

"Servitor" is a much broader term than these limitations.

 

I agree with Ashley's term, "character," for a representation that has no consciousness of its own and is just played by yourself.

 

A servitor is by definition independent of the master. Magicians create or summon a servitor so that it can perform some task and for this it has some intelligence of its own. Yes, it can be like running a program without thinking but tasks may be more nuanced and demand more subtle levels of discernment and thought from the servitor. The "butler" is a servitor, but also a witch's familiar, a daemon, a tulpa, and so on... all servitors. Tulpa is just at the high end of the intelligence or consciousness or sentience spectrum. I would have no problem calling myself a servitor.

 

21 hours ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

sometimes, a tulpa doesn't turn out exactly the way the tulpamancer imagined. there is an element of randomality here.

True, but this doesn't make a tulpa not a servitor, maybe just an "unsuccessful" servitor. If you own a restaurant and hire a man to cook and he prefers to spend the day cleaning instead, then he's surely not performing the role you hired for, but that does not make him a different species of being.

 

The difference I see between the terms is "servitor" is associated with magic while "tulpa" on this forum at least goes a secularized way.

 

But if you look at people's motivations here, they say their tulpa is created to serve some purpose, it's just not connected to magic practice typically - more like, someone to be a friend, to motivate or cheer you up, this kind of thing. This particular kind of purpose (or maybe simply inexperience with the idea of servitor) lends itself to more free will and none of the upper limits on intelligence or abilities that are sometimes placed on servitors created for smaller tasks. And that, along with more humanization, also makes it less common to build in the "kill switch" that Ashley mentioned other servitors having.

 

12 hours ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

Yes, we have experienced several times a servitor developing into a tulpa. our system just considered that a natural progression of a tulpa's existence

So yes, it does seem like the natural progression for a servitor who is continually fed and nurtured and given minimal limitations. 

 

 

Editing to add, like levels:

1. A representation that stimulates your own consciousness to do something - this is like a "character"
2. An autonomous being tied to your consciousness, that does something on its own - a servitor
3. A being tied to more than one person - an egregore

Edited December 24, 2023 by 2serpents

[SeekingMyPlanet]

I wonder if there is some subjectivity to what it means to be a servitor or an egregore or a tulpa.

 

These are all things that live in our head, so how we view them, interact with them, construct them, are going to be different for each different person.

 

When I hear people talk about their tulpas in these forums, I often find myself saying, well my tulpa isn't quite like that.

 

So maybe more helpful than what label we put on a being is how we want to interact with that being and the varied parameters of the roles we want it to take on?

[Guest]

The meanings do vary between different people because it's less doctrinal than typical definitions, so that's fair. In the end all are thoughtforms, but tulpas rise to the level of equal to host, not equally approximating the host, but equal in every way, and so then you'd have to admit the host is a servitor as well and perhaps those who are set in their ways and less lucid are falling back to a more basic form of servitor, just doing what they need to do day after day with very little thought. In that case, okay, we're all servitors, but this community doesn't use that term in that way.

[Charlotte Constance]

Update in the conversation with our friend from FetLife:

 

 

We got some feedback from the  tulpa.info forum community regarding your previous question regarding tulpas, servitors, and evregors. As every tulpamancers expierence is subjective, take the following your own understanding:

 

The consensus seems to be that what our system believed a servitor to be (a mindless automaton), was more akin to the idea of a "character". Quite literally like a character from a book or movie. They are written or designed with certain character strengths and defects, that drive their narrative, and all of that is determined by the tulpamancer. A servitor, they explained, is a step between that and a tulpa. Or rather a tulpa would be an advanced version of a servitor. Where a tulpa would be equally sentient to that of a human, a servitor would be half automaton, half autonomous, able to do basic tasks, but reflect a character that you predetermine. Quite literally like a butler of an estate. They are not the master of the house, but they can do basic tasks to help the upkeep and provide engaging interaction in roleplay, more like an AI Chatbot than a calculator. We are adjusting our understanding of the terms and learning along with you, so I hope that helps. In this instance the "faceless, nameless, brainless sex objects one would masterbate to would be a "character" 

 

(For context, our friend asked if a tulpa or servitor could meditate, tap into the subconscious, access cosmic knowledge, and help heal a private medical condition)

 

So, to your current question: In braud strokes, a tulpa can mentally do anything you believe a human can do. This is of course subjective to each person's interpretation of science and spirituality. We in our system do believe that our tulpas can meditate, and tap into our subconscious, just as has been documented scientifically. And by extension, with this new understanding, a servitor can do the same, just with much less agency and free will.

When it comes to some of the more metaphysical and pseudoscience concepts, such as tapping into cosmic knowledge, we are less inclined. But max would be the first to admit that the more you know about the human condition and the universe, the more you realize you don't know. So while we may be sceptical about certain subjects, that does not by any means make us a subject matter expert. One of our favorite sayings from Einstein, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong." That is the scientific basis Max allowed himself to accept the existence of tulpamancy as a scientific phenomenon in the first place, so we must also accept the same axiom must apply to receiving cosmic knowledge and healing via meditative powers. 

 

I feel like a character architype that might be able to help you out in this regard is the "old wise healer". A personification of a mystic, Oracle, witch or shaman type character, with the before mentioned metaphysical abilities, would be beneficial.

 

Now since your looking to create an entity specifically for this purpose, I would suggest a servitor rather than a tulpa. Just like the human factors saying "you can't put a human in a box" constraint wise when it comes to interacting with a system, one should avoid trying to build a tulpa for a specific, limited tool use, unless your willing to accept that that tulpa would develop its own free will, and forcing it to do a task without consent after they have explicitly became aware would be considered unethical. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Cinder_Lioness said:

reflect a character that you predetermine

 

My argument is that a servitor in my understanding is they don't need personification and don't need a character or character traits and furthermore if your intent is to keep "it" stable long term, it's advisable not to assign any character traits to it. Don't consider that it thinks novel thoughts.

 

The current AI chatbots are trained to predict the most likely words only. So they qualify but if we think of them as a being and not a tool, they will eventually become a being in our minds and if that wasn't your intention then there's the issue.

 

Characters can become more as well so that's also problematic.

 

We once had an AI in wonderland and it didn't take long for it to start to gain personality so we pulled that plug quickly and banned AI's.

[Charlotte Constance]

*Original conversation on FetLife.com, and cross posting here as it is relevant to/an update to the original topic:*

 

From Google Gemini-

 

>An egregore is a non-physical entity or thought-form that is created from the collective thoughts and emotions of a group of people. The term comes from Western esotericism and is used to describe a spiritual or psychic energy that is generated and sustained by a shared belief or purpose.

> - Concept: The idea is that a group of people focusing on a common thought or idea can create a distinct, non-physical being or energy that has its own existence.

> - Origin: The concept originated in Western esoteric traditions.

 

I'm curious, what you think. If you roleplay with people, letting your thoughtform (tulpas, alters, soulbounds, etc.) front and interact with other people, does that escalate that thoughtform to Egregor status?

We often roleplay with others. And Precious (the blond bimbo from hell stereotype tulpa of our plural system) often encourages men to create a "personal copy" of herself in their mind either as a non-sentient character, a semi-sentient servitor, or as an actually sentient tulpa of their own headspace so she could be their personal

Spoiler

masturbatory inspiration

when we are not online or actively interacting. I think this specifically would elevate Precious herself to egregor status specifically, even if roleplaying itself wasn't something that push a tulpa over the threshold.

What do you think?

[bunnymustdie]

Hello. Bear in mind I don't have personal experience with egregores, but from the occult stuff that I've read, my impression is that it generally takes a lot more psychic and energetic "oomph" to turn something into an egregore, much more than what several people engaging in erotic roleplaying can provide. Even if the entity in question is being used as a fantasy for self relaxation.

 

An often times unspoken thing is that egregores are supposedly pretty powerful and much more than what a single person can handle, and an entity that has achieved egregore status is not likely to want to hang around one particular individual and just hangout and play.

 

This is an account of some chaos magicians who managed to make an egregore, maybe it can explain things better than what I tried to above: 

 

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/fotamec2.html

 

Apparently it took the energy from a large concert to elevate a sigil to the status of a servitor with its own thoughts, and over a year and contact & usage with hundreds or more people and a final dedicated group ritual to make it into a full fledged egregore.

 

Here's more detailed info on how to work with this entity. Maybe you can try to pick their brain on your questions if you happen to have this type of spiritual practice:

 

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/fotamec1.html

 

This is a pretty good book on egregores, I enjoyed it and it can be helpful if you want to learn about this topic without directly involving with this stuff:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1620555778?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1

Edited November 6, 2025 by bunnymustdie