Feeling like you're making no progress (or even seeing signs of regress everywhere)

[russellsteapot]

In short, I'm at that point where I'm one month/one month and a half in, and I doubt everything. How do you guys deal or have dealt with it? There are moments when it's very discouraging.

 

Just a bit of background to explain where I'm coming from (but I'm sure I'm not alone in this). When I created my tulpa I had no idea that tulpas were a thing, and I was just trying to get back into meditation. Visualizing has always been easier to me, so I went with the classic "safe place" visualization and at some point I was just hanging with my tulpa (whom, as I said, I didn't know was or could be a tulpa). When I started getting all the responses you'd expect to get after you've been willingly tulpaforcing for a while (feeling your tulpa's presence, finding yourself talking to them during the day...), I got worried that I was driving myself crazy and... stopped. (I know. I'm not proud.)

 

Fast forward two or three months later, I discover tulpas, slap myself on the forehead, and rush back to forcing again. He's still there, everything is fine, I get responses, and the first weeks are really good. Now I don't know what's going on. He's constantly coming up with things I don't expect, especially when it comes to add or modify things in our wonderland, and the emotional responses I get sometimes are really strong. Also his personality is really defined, in terms of what he likes or doesn't like (although he's still figuring it out himself), even though I never sat down to force with character traits in mind. But I don't know what kind of signs I should be looking for outside of our active forcing sessions. Sometimes I don't know how to interact with him during passive forcing. I get distracted easily, and I can mention only two or three instances outside of active forcing when I had the feeling that it was actually him and not me (one was him trying to show me that I wasn't parroting and it ended up upsetting me, so I'm at least sure about that). But lately I can't even feel him around much, and it's nerve-wrecking. When I go back to wonderland there are new buildings or rooms everywhere so maybe he's been busy, but I mostly feel like we're somewhat out of touch. Or that maybe I'm just becoming more subtle at making everything up. Ironically, he was much more present and real to me when I wasn't expecting any kind of progress and didn't know that I had a tulpa at all. (Side note: I did base him on a character but he didn't have much in common with said character right from the beginning, and has almost nothing at all in common with him now, except for really basic traits. I'm happy about it. Thinking about the character I based him on feels weird to me now and I suppose this is good. But at the same time, quantifying our progress is more difficult this way).

 

Basically, DEEP PARANOIA on my side. I do assume sentience, I do assume vocality, I do assume he's there and that maybe I'm just too stressed about my life to hear him clearly or even feel him around. But sometimes I just feel like I'm talking to myself.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, if you want a tl;dr just read the first 2 lines. Any advice would be great, I feel completely stuck.

 

When they do become vocal, is it or should it be a "definite" thing? Or are there times when you can't hear them or feel their presence despite them being vocal and you trying really hard to have a conversation? We had got to a point two weeks ago where I could chat with him easily whenever I wanted, and now it's not that easy or frequent anymore, so I was either parroting before or something is up now. And I have no idea which one it is.

[Linkzelda]

That’s what happens with self-fulfilling prophecies at times, it seems like you may be entering an infinite regress, until one moment where there’s an experience that completely shatters all the accumulated doubt you’ve had, despite of persevering for so long.

 

And when you’re wanting to presume sentience, and other factors into the equation, people often don’t see the philosophy may be like begging the question. In other words, they would have to go through the mannerisms and behaviors of assuming sentience, even though a thought-form would be created by a sentient being (the host) anyway, and they’re left wondering where does the ability on the tulpa’s end to experience subjectivity (sentience) would originate.

 

Basically, finding assurance on going through methods that could actually have empirical value on what the mind does in an objective standpoint, and through the method of inquiry to presumably make the experience true to individuals in tulpa creation is difficult. Most people will have to appeal to the populace, and sometimes it may seem like a breakthrough happens like getting a monkey to type “Shakespeare” on a keyboard. Or things come in a deus ex machina fashion, i.e, our limited cognitive grasp of what the mind does during those processes makes it seem that the breakthroughs (e.g. hearing your tulpa speak to you consistently) comes by unexpectedly, and the host contemplates whether or not they really had to work hard in the first place.

 

There’s so many circumstances, that it’s natural for people to try and find patterns, but sometimes it may feel like they’re just connecting things that may be meaningless. Especially how the individual goes through practicing changing their perception of reality, and tulpas, is completely subjective, and the conditions to create a tulpa become more than just relying on a few underlying concepts.

 

 

As for the question in the first two lines:

 

- If I ever found myself going into a trip down regressed memory lane with doubting, I often made it a habit of being reflective that I would be able to know the distinctions of Eva and Ada over time. I knew that even if I made accomplishments every now and then, experiential observation of who’s voice is who, and which are merely wandering thoughts is something that’s trial and error, and realizing those distinctions doesn’t really drop down to us like an atom bomb.

 

- I had to get into the habit of shifting through many mindsets to compensate what the other may lack (e.g. passively going through a self-fulfilling prophecy of presuming sentience, and knowing they’ll need time to develop while having another mindset to not let that belief undermine my ability to just progressively improve with competence, cognition, and things of that nature)

 

- Simply imagining what it would be like to see breakthroughs occurring, and the moment of shock, happiness, and relief that would go along with it is what kept me out of the ditch consistently now, and I still imagine getting even better. I guess it gets to the point where you learn to persevere with your shittiness, and knowing focusing on getting better is more reasonable, rather than contemplating and being too critical about what may be trivial concerns on not getting too far

 

- Sometimes I would listen to any music that may be uplifting, inspirational, and such to keep me focused on their existence, like:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkITgNGiXY

 

 

- I would get into the habit that whatever time I devoted for forcing, all that really mattered to me was their existence, and mine, and that I would try to pour as much effort within those time intervals, and it gradually helped me get better at appreciating the yearning for getting better and better without the mind-draining attitude of instant gratification, i.e, wanting things to come by quickly, and not appreciating the journey itself.

 

TL;DR: Keep on trucking, experiential observation, and knowing who’s who doesn’t necessarily drop down like an atom bomb. It’s dragged out, and all of those attempts at passive forcing that may not seem significant to you may very well be the sustenance the mind needs to contribute in making the breakthroughs. It’s often taking a leap of faith because of many factors, especially since explaining what goes on within the mind during this journey in an objective standpoint(s) is difficult, and it would raise questions on how tulpas may add onto the hard and soft problems of consciousness in general. You just have to keep going, I know it doesn't sound unique, but it's part of what kept me going.

[russellsteapot]

Thank you, that was actually really helpful.

 

I know it's different for everyone, but how long would you say it took you before you started feeling that Eva and Ada were consistently there?

 

I'm also wondering if it's too soon to start working on imposition. I'm thinking that maybe working on something that's objectively harder could help with the whole process, even if I won't actually be able to impose him for a long time. I have no problem with visualization, and I can usually distinguish his voice easily, assuming that I can coax him out. But I'm worried that it could complicate things for both of us, especially in case he would like to change something about his appearance (I don't think he wants to, but I can't be sure).