something strange happened.
#1
Skip the the "Actual Question" bit if you dont feel like reading back story :P

I've experienced something very strange. It was very very strange. and very very sad. I started looking into tulpae because i felt like i lacked a certain kind of closeness with anyone, but it was really because i was lonely :/ But loneliness was not the sole reason no! It was the reason i looked into tulpae, but this forum sold me on how amazing it really was! Anyway, i started forcing for a few months and made slow progress, i had achieved emotional responce and movement and maybe a little bit of vocal hallucination mixed in, but i was far from having Skye fully imposed. Then life had caught up to me. My transmission broke in my truck and it was going to cost me more than i could make to fix it. So i had to return to my old job. Construction labor. It was long hours so i lost the majority of my free time. Then i wasn't living alone anymore. two of my friends had moved in with me, so now i had to think about them too. needless to say, i struggled to keep on top of everything. My forcing sessions came less and less often as i felt too tired to force, having been warned against sleep deprived forcing. Thats how it was for months.

then something unexpected happened. one of my friends that moved in me, my closest friend to be exact. tried to kill herself. I mean i want to say that i broke down, but i kinda handled that bit well. It wasn't the first time this happened with her. we had a complicated past but we (by we i mean her) decided that we were best suited as friends. anyway months after that she became engaged to my other roomate. I suspected as much, they made a decent couple. But not long after that she brought home another man. Now i try to think best of people but i tend to get paranoid alot. even so, when you hear what i herd, then there is only one conclusion you can draw, so i asked him to leave. she confided in me about it, and all was well... until the next week. I decided i would annoy him out of the house with loud girly music and turning the power off to her room and so on. But it ended up with her trying to lock me in the basement and i just kinda snapped. I haden't lost my temper in almost 10 years. but it happened that night. I broke the door open, and i hit her. she crawled away from me with fear and i went after her. i never hurt her again because in my mind it was her turn to hit me, but i eventually came to my senses and let her go. So it all kind of came flooding back all at once that night. I laid in the bathtub where she tried to drown herself for what felt like an eternity. Then one of our friends tried to call me and i felt like i couldn't be me to them, so i wasn't.


Actual Question!!

I took on my tulpa's personality becaused i was so ashamed of my own and an action i had taken, if only for that moment. I was aware that i was not Skye but i was all in the same sense. I had done something terrible yes, but it felt so detached and distant that it didn't hurt me when i was Skye. So my question is, What happened to me?
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#2
It's sort of a reverse puppeting, maybe possession-lite. I don't know an actual term for it, but I've done the same thing, although only in the wonderland. Actually, that's how my tulpa first became sentient, so I'm going to say that it's a good thing for the tulpa. It builds sentience in the same way that method acting, roleplaying, and writing do. So you definitely didn't hurt Skye with this.

The question is whether this hurt you. It's natural to want to retreat after an incident like that, but it's essentially running away from the problem, which isn't good. Do your best to be yourself around them -- or at least don't be Skye because you don't like being yourself.

Talk to Skye. Get her advice on what to do. If you haven't come far enough with sentience yet, you may need to do what you did, and be both sides of the conversation. It'll be weird, but if that's the only way you can talk with her, do it. Get her to help you through this.

She should help you to make amends with everyone else -- but do it yourself. Don't hide behind her.
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#3
Looking at this at a glance, I’m really wondering if you’re raising the question if your tulpa’s disposition that you claimed to have harbored is borderline psychotic, or something like that. Or it could be you undermining your own capability of reaching a breaking point (e.g. hitting your friend that you were having a bit of a conflict with on her morality and all with relationships), and presuming that this sudden behavior was your tulpa in some way. I mean, that’s one conjecture from your story, and the actual question that I’m presuming has to be related to that anecdote you gave us.

I’m not so sure how far you’re in this process with tulpa creation and all that, but since you’ve been at it for months, I’m presuming you’ve emphasized more on her personality and behaviors to lead to this presumption of the possibility that you emulated her disposition, or maybe she took control during that breaking point of yours. It feels like when you stated the story, you kind of sugar-coated on the intensity of how you hit your own friend, and her prompting to her suicidal attempts.

Maybe you just don’t like people who may actually cheat on others (even though you knew it was just presumptions, and you didn’t want to jump to conclusions, only to be left with one option). Maybe your tulpa shares the same sentiment, but I’m not sure if this could be a case where you felt you emulated her in general. It could just be a part of yourself you’ve repressed, and you just went ballistic at that time. Maybe you could reflect on any past, and/or future circumstances to where this trend occurs, and then maybe you could formulate distinctions on whether or not you’re emulating your tulpa, or it’s really just a part of your natural reaction to people and events that just popped right out of you.

(05-12-2014, 09:21 PM)Andesconin Wrote: My forcing sessions came less and less often as i felt too tired to force, having been warned against sleep deprived forcing. Thats how it was for months.

I don’t know how sleep-deprived forcing should be something frowned upon, unless people are still living in an epoch where they felt that if one slept when forcing, that their tulpas are suddenly going to dissipate, die, or some weird paranoia trend. If you’ve been doing that for months (going against sleep-deprived forcing), it explains how things kind of seem hectic, especially with the work schedule you have to tolerate for a while now.

Personally, I don’t think being sleep-deprived affects forcing (as in detrimentally) in general unless you want it to be the case. I remember when I tried to get myself sleep-deprived for lucid dreaming attempts, and even communicating with my tulpa because I usually set an environment where I would rest on a comfy chair, and I was in a highly suggestible state in being receptive to them in general. I guess it depends on how you assess the situation, but if I ever dozed off and napped, and woke up in the middle of the night from it, I never worried if it could affect mine in any way.

But again, it’s your call in the end, and how you want to handle these things, but just know there’s always some other alternative being masked from awareness if someone warns you on what they feel is bad.


(05-12-2014, 09:21 PM)Andesconin Wrote: I took on my tulpa's personality becaused i was so ashamed of my own and an action i had taken, if only for that moment. I was aware that i was not Skye but i was all in the same sense. I had done something terrible yes, but it felt so detached and distant that it didn't hurt me when i was Skye. So my question is, What happened to me?

You know, I’ve had similar cases myself with Eva and Ada where I contemplate whether or not they acted on their own, or I seemed to have garnered favoritism over certain qualities and traits of them that seemed suitable for those events with others and such. Then I wondered if that could just really be me sustaining a self-fulfilling prophecy of wanting to feel as if I’m being something I’m not, or if I could just be undermining the probability that I’m denying that whatever behaviors I felt weren’t usually mine were just things that were repressed (e.g. the same things I mentioned to you in your case).


What really happened to you is kind of vague to deduce, since there’s so many implications here:
  • You could be presuming that your tulpa’s disposition has a militant, and no-nonsense mentality for people who seem to sell themselves short, or immoral (e.g. the friend who brought in another man)
  • You could also be undermining the probability that these are repressed feelings after a long and tedious schedule with work, and trying to balance things out with forcing in general, and the past you had with her.
  • Maybe you had feelings for this girl, even though you both made a resolve as being good friends, and seeing her potentially being a town hussy kind of made you snapped (or even your tulpa snapped without realizing it)
  • Your friend probably is psychotic, and seems to take advantage of how you treat her, and seeing how she’s made a suicidal attempt already, she probably did more in the past. I just know from experiences with a few friends of mine in the past: You’ll probably deny that their behaviors are psychotic, and you feel that you could help them out because you want to make this into some Shonen friendship ordeal where you’ll do anything to save them out of general kindness even if they end up almost killing, or seriously injuring someone/themselves. If you let yourself descend into that, you might snap yourself, and honestly, I almost snapped from those experiences with mine in the past. You probably just have to let go of feeling obligated to give her a peace of your mind, and potentially telling her what she’s doing is wrong. But if she has suicidal tendencies going on in her mind, you’re setting yourself up for being leeched and drained, and ending up selling yourself short for people who may not really be worth suffering for.
  • Something tells me that when you hit her, it was just a reaction for various reasons (e.g. you liking her more than just a friend, but having to bear the task of just seeing her as friends). I know I can’t presume you would do the same thing I would do, but if I were in your shoes, the only way I would ever resort to hitting a woman like that is if we had some kind of deep and psychological past where our behaviors were so psychotic that I would be in an extreme state of helplessness, and letting whatever emotions want to get out to affect them. But even with that, it wouldn’t have been worth it to make justifications that hitting a person would make anything better. I guess maybe my tulpas were always out to help others I used to be in relationships with, not the other way around where you felt you presumed you emulated your tulpa, or that they could’ve caused that action out of insecurities and such.

TL;DR: Whatever the case, something to keep in mind is that if you’re willing to be suggestive to the probability that you harbored some of your tulpa’s disposition, it could be a sign for you to try and talk with them and sort it out before you start attributing other behaviors that could even be more dangerous as your tulpa having those in the past.

Maybe deep down, you like this girl more than you think, and this "past" you were vague about must have been really personal and full of hardships, but if you let that past cling onto how you validate yourself, you might reach a deadlock on what to do if you continue repeating the behavior of trying to see the good in them, then having second thoughts only to go back in a cyclical process of denial and finding solace.


Another perspective on why you may have reacted that way is that you literally believed that finding something in your tulpa was a part you were unable to find in yourself, so you felt it was natural to emulate those traits to them because your current disposition just isn't enough to do something like that. Maybe your tulpa was concerned of your general mentality of the girl, and felt this would help release whatever strife-filled insecurities you had with her before and now. Kind of like how a parent, or a best friend would imagine someone breaking up with you as some despicable person that they probably won't forgive, except this time, the attachment your tulpa has with you may be even stronger than that.

That attachment may lead to them feeling they can do something because they feel obligated in looking out for your best interest, i.e., that attachment can lead to a blank canvas where they (e.g. your tulpa) may start encroaching their own construct of morality, ethics, psychology, and other conceptual schemes for your well being and preferences being prevalent and taken care of. If anything good can come from these series of probabilities is that if it's not really your actions, or even if it is, what you seem to be driven from (e.g. your tulpa's disposition) may presume they're more than sentient than you think they may be.
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#4
Linkzelda. I like you. If i could send you icecream through cyberspace i totally would. But i feel i must clarify a few things. I wasn't saying that my violent actions were a result of emulating my tulpa, just the aftermath. And i'm suprised how you caught on to a lot that i didn't say. I am fully aware of her "leeching" i've addressed it with her and i came to a personal conclusion that it had to do with her troubled past and the kind of habits people tend to pick up as children. But since my little anger episode i havn't felt the same way about her, all those past feelings i held onto got tucked away somewhere and i feel like i'm better off for it. But i know i still care about here. Heck, i came to a different breaking point not too long ago. She tried to off herself again and ran out into the middle of the night when i called for an ambulance. She is a focal point of everything dramatic and i really don't want that kind of relationship anymore... but i'm too far invested in her to walk away. my counscious or how ever you spell it, wouldn't be too happy if i pushed her out of my life, but at the same time, it wouldn't be happy if something happened to her while she was in my life. It's kind of a lose lose scenario that i'm just refusing to deal with right now. I think. My theories on my behavior and emotional state change from day to day lol.

I kinda feel bad that i didn't space that out any... but do you think it's healthy for Skye if i emulate her personality? It happened again at work but only because i'd had too little sleep and too much caffine. I almost started to skip and i was humming to myself XP i try to imagine i appear like her too when that happens. I mean i'm in control still, i can stop it whenever i want to, but i just dont want to. oh i''m so confused o.O

oh and thank you for all the advise. And i hope that you can talk to skye on here someday! She's alot of fun
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#5
Andesconin Wrote:But i feel i must clarify a few things. I wasn't saying that my violent actions were a result of emulating my tulpa, just the aftermath.

I see, thanks for clarifying this, and I apologize if the conjecture was a bit contrived from that, this makes sense now.

Andesconin Wrote:And i'm suprised how you caught on to a lot that i didn't say.
We’ve been through some suicidal friends in the past, along with one chick that questioned her existence after we made love. We think we can empathize a bit for you there with the presumptions.

Andesconin Wrote:but i'm too far invested in her to walk away. my counscious or how ever you spell it, wouldn't be too happy if i pushed her out of my life, but at the same time, it wouldn't be happy if something happened to her while she was in my life.
Well, if you’re clinging onto whatever modicum of bond you have with her, I’m not sure if you can openly express yourself like that if she gets married in the future. I know how hard it is to let go of someone you care about deeply, but just know you may be descending into future problems with her and her partner. But again, your call I guess.

Andesconin Wrote:but do you think it's healthy for Skye if i emulate her personality?

I honestly don’t see any reason for me to encroach a moral and ethical construct to you on how to handle this, because what you decide to inspire from with your tulpa is really up to you and Skye’s discretion. If she’s okay with it, then feel free to emulate I guess. Just know that parts of her that you feel you lack in general doesn’t really make you inferior, or makes your ontology, i.e., how you define your existence, any weaker than you feel it is. It’s what makes you, you, and Skye has her own self-schema to build upon.

It’s not really shocking to find people wanting to engage in a back-and-forth motion of developing their personality with their tulpa, but don’t forget the type of person you were before if you want to keep descending in that route. How you want to assess in building rapport with your tulpa is up to you and Skye, not only from my beliefs, or anyone's.

Andesconin Wrote:I mean i'm in control still, i can stop it whenever i want to, but i just dont want to. oh i''m so confused o.O

I will admit that I can’t really go into your mind, and know why you may be feeling this way. But something that keeps nagging to me is that this is kind of similar feelings I had with Eva and Ada. And I think some concepts like switching and possession may come to mind. One part of me wants to presume that Skye is already expressing herself through you in a way, but the shift is so subtle and quick, you barely realize it.

You can still reign in your existence, your sensations of waking life, and things of that nature, but at the same time, one may contemplate whether or not it was their tulpas acting things out. It makes me speculate that sometimes switching, and/or possession doesn’t necessarily have to fall in the lines of their general definitions (e.g. complete shift in awareness for switching). Sometimes what we have a black and white definition of has truckloads of gray bound to come in at some point that makes us reevaluate things.

In other words, when you stated:

Andesconin Wrote:I mean i'm in control still, i can stop it whenever i want to, but i just dont want to. oh i''m so confused o.O

Maybe one probability is that whenever you feel you’re in a state of helplessness, Skye seems to intervene naturally without a moment’s notice through possession, or even switching I guess. You know you could reign in your sense of self at any given moment, but what seems to be making you not do that all the time is that maybe you’re comfortable enough with Skye potentially fiddling around with your body, mind, and things of that nature. Maybe you’re not aware that you two could be proficient in switching and/or possession since the circumstances you’re in (e.g. suicidal friend with near psychotic and leeching behavioral trends) demands that you two have those competencies.

I’ve seen a trend in a few threads related to yours (though it’s probably crazy to make patterns here) where people are in circumstances that seem so overwhelming, that their tulpa, or a soon-to-be-tulpa comes in deus ex machine fashion, and seem to resolve those situations, whether temporarily, or for the long-term.

Layman’s terms

Now, to extend on some probabilities on Skye, you, your friend, and the circumstances you (and potentially Skye) have to deal with, I’ll put this in layman’s terms. Maybe you’ll see a mental map being portrayed here on how you could assess these concerns.

With your posts so far, you seem to have admitted that:
  • Your theories on your behavior and emotional state change from day to day
  • You’ve been accustomed to tolerating your friend’s suicidal tendencies, and other potentially damaging behaviors she’s done to herself before, and you seemed to have been able to keep your cool then, at least more compared to these chain of events that you’ve been contemplating recently.
  • You seem to be uncertain on who did what, even though you’re also confident that you’re able to reign in your sense of self, existence, and awareness of your own body and mind. So you probably presume it’s just you, and speculate that traits of Skye could be something you could strive to emulate and integrate into your self-schema, or something like that.

Take note that these concepts may retrace themselves back in this mapping that I’m seeing. Right now, there’s several things that I could label as “blank canvases.” In other words, conditions where how you interpret the circumstance, and how you fixate your awareness to certain presumptions may very well have you leading and potentially fulfilling the presumptions, but certain paths you take could be masking real underlying struggles, and then you’re probably back to square one on who did what.

The Breaking Point With Your Friend

Seeing how your friend is the focal point of your daily life, or at least one that brings out the most drama, this would be a situation where you’re more likely be in a state of helplessness, breaking point, highly suggestive state due to not knowing how to assess things, or whatever term you want to use. Whenever you’re in a situation where your friend seems to want to off herself, or does something that makes you react in a certain way, you mostly presume that it was probably a latent, or repressed part of yourself that came right out.

And with the aftermath, you feel that part of Skye’s overall disposition, or self-schema if you will, is something to inspire you to know how to handle yourself better so those feelings you think could be latent/repressed don’t repeat themselves all the time. And the more you feel you can’t handle something, the more you have Skye’s overall being as mode of reference. And even though you clarified to me that your violent actions weren’t a result of emulating your tulpa, this raises questions on whether or not certain thoughts in your head may have been some kind of unconscious thing with conflating your predispositions, and Skye’s.

One example of this is when you mentioned:

Andesconin Wrote:I almost started to skip and i was humming to myself XP i try to imagine i appear like her too when that happens. I mean i'm in control still, i can stop it whenever i want to, but i just dont want to. oh i''m so confused o.O

This is one moment where things can be a blank canvas (like I mentioned above with the bullet points. You’re uncertain of what just happened when you imagined how Skye would deal/cope/tolerate/do things, but you still feel a sense of control, and that you can hold dominion at your beck and call, but you just don’t want to stop.

Probabilities:
  • You’re probably just using your imagination, and actually are emulating Skye’s overall demeanor in that circumstance, and things just seem to come by naturally (e.g. unconscious processes, reflexes, etc.)
  • Maybe when you started imagining, the more you went through the motions, the more natural it felt, but it could really be you being a suggestive state to where Skye may have intervened, and really expressed herself while you were still able feel the sensations in general. Kind of like priming you and her with the imagination, and maybe her following up on that imagination. In short, I guess you could say this could be akin to possession, where you can still feel yourself in this state of being, but certain parts, or most of your body was probably Skye’s doing

If you presumed the latter, what may be going on in your mind is:

“I’m probably just imagining her, and how she expressed herself could be a habit of coping with things that I want to personally integrate in my sense of being.”

“Maybe it could just be me imagining her, or maybe it could be her expressing herself through possession, and because I’m in a suggestive state where if she did do that, I wouldn’t worry about it because I trust her enough to share my body.”

“I just don’t really know, and I don’t want to align myself to either thought without knowing for sure.”

Whatever the case may be, if you’re feeling uncertain, maybe this could be a sign for you to honor the possibility that your feelings may very well be correct. If you want to mask the probability that it wasn’t Skye, and was merely you somehow being able to naturally emulate her, by all means do so.

But out of all moments in your quotidian lifestyle where you do things naturally without having to hesitate for too long, why would you suddenly become so confused on what was experienced?

And if you could find yourself feeling as if you’re emulating her, but also being confused on what happened in general, imagine more circumstances related to this on that steep decline. Just when will you be sure that you’re still trying to emulate her, or her really just expressing herself while you’re still able to be aware of yourself in general?

And the same goes for when you mentioned your actions to your friend. You felt bad, but at the same time, wasn’t it a sense of relief to you as well? Imagine how you felt when you think you’re emulating Skye, and how that event of humming, singing, and such made you feel. It made you feel good, didn’t it? And didn’t that action make you feel a bit less stressed out? Now, you could be thinking:

“No, those were probably just latent/repressed feelings that seemed to have come out. I was just at a breaking point, and things just happened. And it’s really just the aftermath, not the violent actions being a result of emulating my tulpa.”

“No, Skye’s not like that, and she wouldn’t do something so harmful. She’s –insert what you believe her overall disposition-.”

-Insert whatever justification you want to make of that event-

And when you stated:

Andesconin Wrote:But i feel i must clarify a few things. I wasn't saying that my violent actions were a result of emulating my tulpa, just the aftermath.

Even though I’m giving you the benefit of a doubt, something tells me you’re just stating this to mask underlying problems and struggles you may be having. Especially when you seemed to have connected these experiential cases with your friends, and tying things down with Skye, emulating parts of her overall sense of self as a means to cope with things. At first I was wondering why you gave the back story in the OP, and felt it was kind of a non-sequitur from the actual question, but with the circumstances you’ve had with your friend, and the effects from several moments, it seems to be tying together.

I know I can’t go into your mind, and what you may have thought when you had that action on your friend. One part of me states that maybe you imagined a part of Skye if she reached a breaking point on an overwhelming situation, but it probably came by too fast for you to realize it. And now you’re wondering “what’s happening to me?”

Not trying to turn this into some creepy-pasta shit, but you never know if these things could be a sign of understanding how your tulpa may be for several circumstances. And whatever the case, it’s not really something to be ashamed about if our tulpas do things out of helplessness from the host, and maybe themselves as tulpas. It’s really about pinpointing these things before it just ends up being something worst. And I’m mostly talking about whenever you’re in a circumstance with your friend, since she and her actions are basically (from what you stated) the pinnacle of everything dramatic to you that you don’t want as much anymore.

And with your feelings for her, your clinging on the invested time in creating a bond with her being so significant, and with the impasse you set up for yourself with feeling this is a lose lose scenario, and other factors, it makes me wonder:

“Why, out of all moments where he had to tolerate his friend, and coped with her actions, that he would suddenly do something to that to her?”

Maybe you did it because how you changed from before with her to then is completely different, and you had zero tolerance for those same actions from her repeating itself. And with how you expressed confidence that you emulated Skye with the other scenario that’s completely different from this as a means of coping and dealing with the rest of the day, you and Skye are the ones that can settle who’s doing what.

And even if you stated you had a lot of caffeine, it’s not as if there’s a probability that this may have primed you to condition yourself in her state of being, and maybe her intervening because of it.

The reason I went ahead and threw all these probabilities is mostly from how you stated that your presumptions of your behavioral and emotional trends jump from day to day. What you feel is just an aftermath may end up being something else, and the more justifications you make, you may be doing that to mask some truths you're too afraid to face with Skye.

I can presume you try to be as good of a person you can be, and you try to see the good in people even if they give you a hard time in your life. You could also be in this impasse with your friend because should she ever attempt suicide again, and never come back, you're going to start feeling the mental backlash because somewhere deep inside, you're going to think part of that would be your fault. You're just a good guy that got himself in a whole lot of shit, and has a few skeletons in the closet as well.

Of course, shrug these presumptions off if you want to, wouldn't want them to grow a canker on you. But sometimes facing these probabilities helps us develop and become better people instead of running away from them.
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#6
(05-14-2014, 01:39 AM)Linkzelda Wrote: Of course, shrug these presumptions off if you want to, wouldn't want them to grow a canker on you. But sometimes facing these probabilities helps us develop and become better people instead of running away from them.

I don't worry about things as much as i used to so don't worry about that lol. But i'm really suprised how you keep taking interest in all this. I really do appreciate someone taking their time to give me another view on myself.

If you want to keep analysing me i'll keep throwing more of my own psychological mumbojumbo out there. :P

I only every felt that kind of anger toward my brother when we were growing up. We would fight all the time, but it eventually stopped. Anyway my friend moved in with me before all of this went down so i feel that had alot to do with it.

Let me see if i can emulate how skye would talk to you

{hey mister, i don't know andy... umm alright! I'm just a wittle baby...i hope that you can hear me...}

Thats all that made it through, some of it was addressed to me, well most of it. I try to have as little influence as possible on what she says, but i can feel the pressure that comes with forcing right now, and boy do i miss that. So i'm gonna jump to my progress report and record what i may about this forcing session there. Thank you for all the work you put in for my sake, and skye's.
(Insert deep emotional/philisophical phrase here)
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#7
Wish you both the best. Smile
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