Struggling with Visualization and Autonomy

[KusaNyan]

I began the process of forming my tulpa approximately two weeks ago, following extensive reading of various guides on Tulpa.info and elsewhere, including both outdated and more recent ones. I must admit, I used a character as the initial basis for my tulpa. As a result, I never encountered difficulties in visualizing their design or their physical characteristics, such as their form from different angles, as well as their personality or mannerisms. However, I have always been conscious of the fact that my tulpa would not be an exact replica of the character. From the outset, I’ve acknowledged that my tulpa would be an independent entity, with their own unique personality, traits, quirks, thoughts, and the ability to alter their form or voice as they choose.

 

That said, I struggle with visualization. While I don’t face the common issues of complexity or defining intricate details that others have reported, I do find myself at an impasse, stuck in the stage described in JD’s Visualization Guide as the "I can see their form, but faintly." This limitation has been a persistent challenge in my imagination for years. To address this, I’ve attempted to engage with my tulpa in the “wonderland” I’ve created, trying to make the experience more vivid and clear. However, my success in doing so has been inconsistent. In addition to the challenges I’ve already mentioned, I’ve also struggled with maintaining certain attributes, such as height and perspective. While I understand the relative height of my tulpa in comparison to myself and other objects in the world, my attempts to visualize this consistently often result in unintended alterations. I’m unsure whether these shifts are due to my tulpa independently adjusting their form or if they stem from my own difficulties with perspective. My visualization process seems resistant to holding constant forms that I’ve defined. For example, I often visualize myself switching between first-person and third-person perspectives, despite my efforts to eliminate the third-person view and focus solely on the first-person perspective. This has led to moments where I’ll be sitting with my tulpa, only to suddenly find myself viewing them from a distance, as if I’ve disappeared, despite knowing I was right next to them just moments before.

 

I am also uncertain if my difficulties with visualization are having a detrimental effect on my tulpa. I often feel as though I am inadvertently manipulating or controlling their movements in the wonderland, despite my attempts to allow them autonomy. Given that I have only recently begun the process of forming my tulpa, I am unsure whether they have displayed sentience yet. One notable experience occurred during the first few days, when I was speaking to them and heard a distinctly unfamiliar voice—one that I did not consciously generate—say, “We will.” Since then, however, my tulpa has been largely silent, and I worry that I may have unintentionally caused this.

 

As I continue practicing visualization by entering the wonderland, I am making efforts to give my tulpa more freedom in their actions. Rather than attempting to control them or direct their behavior in accordance with specific visualization exercises, I try to simply observe them and allow them to act on their own. Despite these efforts, I am still unsure whether their movements are truly their own or if I am subtly influencing them. While I’ve followed several tips and tricks, I am uncertain how effective they’ve been in my case.

 

I have also attempted to impose my tulpa onto the physical world, despite my uncertainty about whether they are controlling their actions independently or if I am unintentionally guiding them. This effort is aimed at improving my visualization skills, but again, I am unsure whether this is helping or potentially harming my tulpa.

 

At this point, I am seeking advice or guidance from others who might better understand this situation. Any insights or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am also happy to answer any further questions about my experience if it helps clarify my current dilemma.

 

Edit: I also face challenges in regard to constant noise in my mind, making it difficult to differentiate between my thoughts. At times, I even wonder whether this may indicate that I lack the necessary mindset for tulpamancy, as I struggle to discern thoughts that may not be my own, even if they don't align with my typical thinking patterns. While I am aware of the phenomenon of intrusive thoughts and refrain from acting on them, I often find myself questioning which thoughts truly originate from within. It feels as though there is a continuous stream of consciousness, despite my understanding that consciousness and thoughts do not always follow a consistent, linear flow and can arise spontaneously. But this might be an area where further meditation could help me gain more clarity and insight.

Edited September 21, 2024 by KusaNyan

[Luminesce]

I'll just answer your DM questions here as well, since I don't like writing a bunch of general-info that only one person can see:

 

For improving visualization in general, I'd offer the advice that's also the main solution in our case (I have pretty poor visualization quality), which is to commit to non-tulpa visualization practice (of anything and everything). It honestly just became too hard and demotivating to keep trying to practice visualization via wonderlanding with my tulpas when every minor activity was such a struggle full of wasted time trying to see or stabilize things, so we realized simply practicing actually-just-"visualization" was much easier and more flexible. That really is anything, from trying to visualize a simple object like an apple rotating or moving, to visualizing all the details as you look around a room, to listening to videos with your eyes closed and visualizing what you think is happening (some things are better for this than others), or whatever else. Ironically I've also had my tulpas help me with general visualization practice before lol, like Tewi holding an apple and moving it around for me to follow.

 

All that said, it sounds like you've got a strong issue with general chaotic thoughts, which I couldn't say whether for you they're more ADHD or schizophrenia related - but it's not purely normal to "always have noise in your mind" and it is disorderly to "struggle to differentiate between your thoughts". I'm guessing that this isn't something that can be entirely practiced-away and is more medication territory to help control, but also that you could probably make some progress on your own with meditation. I'd say "and maybe practice", but practice visualizing doesn't relate to tidiness of your everyday-thoughts. I personally had intrusive visualization in the past, where my perspective would constantly roll or drift for example, and I kept just trying to right it over and over with more tricks and convincing, but it never really worked. Eventually I realized that these sorts of things are unconsciously reinforced by thinking "against" them and that the only way to actually get rid of them was to truly ignore them, to attribute them no importance whatsoever, not as a distraction, not as a mistake, not as something worthy of acknowledgement whatsoever - just to honestly keep doing what I wanted to be doing without focusing on things going "wrong".

 

And while that did actually work for me - we're pretty much immune from visualization disruptions now - that DID NOT reflect the state of our everyday thoughts. We do plenty of work there too, including shutting down the validity of thoughts we don't want to have, but this was not a matter of going from a chaotic mind to a quiet one. I don't think that the type of solution I explained there will fix that, as it really is a much larger symptom of some disorder - ADHD or schizophrenia are the two big ones that come to mind, but it could probably be other things too (and most disorders' symptoms exist on a spectrum, so it's possible they don't actually bother you enough to qualify as a full-on disorder, like how I have "light OCD" that makes me do lots of unnecessary things, but is never so overwhelming that I can't override it if it becomes invasive, meaning it's not quite disorderly)

 

So unfortunately since the problems you've described are just a bit too wide-reaching in your brain, I have to defer on that subject to a therapist/psychiatrist (but who knows, maybe you've got something like ADHD and treating it could improve your life in general as well as making tulpamancy easier)

 

Moving on to the other more common questions, though:

8 hours ago, KusaNyan said:

I am also uncertain if my difficulties with visualization are having a detrimental effect on my tulpa. I often feel as though I am inadvertently manipulating or controlling their movements in the wonderland, despite my attempts to allow them autonomy.

 

First off, don't worry about "harming your tulpa" in any way while developing them - it's all in your head, and at the end of the day, only what's been meaningfully thought by you (and your tulpa) mean anything. If for example you have an invasive thought about your tulpa being injured for a second before righting that visually, if you do as I talked about before and genuinely let that go as an unmeaningful nothing-thought, there is zero effect at all no matter how bad the imagery was. On the other hand, if you let your imagination/anxiety go and start thinking "Oh no is this a sign that my tulpa is subconsciously in pain and that they're only able to express it through brief flashes of imagery and-", you are just completely making a bunch of stuff up that may influence how you and your tulpa think of them. Only thoughts you consider meaningful are going to really stick around/have any lasting effect, you have the power to fully shape the entire tulpa creation process - but the more you give your power away to random/invasive thoughts, the more chaotic things will be.

 

So on that topic, it's actually pretty relevant to tulpa autonomy how you think about things too. To be honest, the trick with teaching people tulpamancy is that it's less about knowing exactly how everything works, and more about believing it is working (in a healthy/controlled way) - but I lean more towards the former, so I explain like this instead lol. Pretty much the only thing that won't work, is believing you are directly controlling your tulpa and that this is preventing them from developing autonomy. Everything else will work eventually - believing random fluff thoughts are "actually them", directly controlling/deciding things for them but not thinking you're doing so (or, just not thinking it's a problem), or walking the perfect balance of only letting intent-spurred thoughts in line with what you think they should be thinking/be like determine what "was really them" doing something - any way you go about it, as long as you're thinking of it as "Another person in my head learning to exist", you will inevitably start to create that experience. Only the direct opposite of that - "This is only me doing things, not a tulpa" - will actually work against the process and not lead to results.

 

So people who get stuck on the idea that for something to have been their tulpa, the experience must have felt alien, and anything else was only them making it up - will probably eventually make some progress, but will most of the time be discounting any potential progress as "not real enough", so it tends to take forever. People with rather active imaginations may be fully immersed in everything they're imagining from their tulpa day 1 and be having a fulfilling tulpamancy experience in a week or two, albeit likely with less control over how things went, so they're more prone to "My tulpa's skin color was green today so I guess they want green skin!" or dramatic stuff like thinking their tulpa left temporarily because they couldn't quite focus on them that day or something. People who believe general Tulpa.info tulpamancy (or say, a popular guide) is some sacred spiritual experience, or the epitome of established psychological practice, and believe all the standard positive-productive advice our members tend to give out without doubting anything, probably end up having the exact defined experience we were telling them they could have and in a pretty short time.

 

Or, trying to go the extra mile, people who learn how the process really works (at least in my educated opinion) and who that clicks for, learn they have the freedom to shape the experience to how best suits them here and there, while still following the average advice of the community (we have, after all, spent a lot of time discussing theory, practice, and then experiences, to come to the general conclusions we have)

 

That isn't at all necessary though, if you've gotten my point. In the end it's the belief in the experience (of an autonomous other-person in your head) happening that leads your brain to actually creating that experience, with your tulpa(s) becoming more consistent, more independent, more generally stable and complete as people over time. So you're really free to just take that affirmation and run with it, doing whatever feels best to you (honestly this tends to lead to the best results for most people anyways, assuming the don't-doubt part is established) - or you could say "That's all a bit over my head, I'm just going to follow the general advice/guides I see" lol. Either works (though I don't recommend either the "Only accepting alien-feeling experiences as really them" or "Any random thought that comes to mind must be totally intentional from my tulpa!" routes, as they make for less than smooth tulpamancy journeys)

 

 

Okay well, I kind of wrote my own thing instead of addressing the DM'd questions, lol

To add a little covering those just a bit more directly,

Quote

How does one discern whether their tulpa has developed sentience or is responding meaningfully/how can I be certain I have successfully formed one and that it is responding to me?

 

(Following from what I wrote about about the development process) The actual development of a tulpa, compared with day 1 imagining them, should (unless you were the active-imagination type who was already having immersive experiences anyways) be accompanied by:

Easier communication that flows more naturally, without much or any effort in getting responses from them;

 

Communication from your tulpa having a sort of "thought-feeling information" to it that makes what they were thinking/intending clearer than just the actual words they said, and that has a unique "feeling" to them distinguishing their genuine presence vs. "just imagining them talking" or a non-developed tulpa (Being able to "imagine your tulpa talking" and differentiate that from them actually talking is sort of an odd skill I think most people haven't tried, and for the less mind-exploring/shaping types like myself, might not be easy to do - I imagine occurring as them always having their tulpa actually talking instead of only imagining them, just because they're so used to that, but I can at least confirm it is very possible to see a clear difference in the two);

 

And simple things like having a consistent personality that grows and changes like anyone else's over time (assuming, of course, that they are active enough and experiencing things to learn and grow from!) - which also means having a resistance to the random-fluff thoughts that plague some newbies, like "Well my tulpa appeared as a guy today, I guess they wanted to be a guy instead?" - when they're well-developed a tulpa can always discuss if they want to change things about themselves and otherwise have real thought processes behind such things, as opposed to vulnerability to invasive or random-fluff ideas

 

All in all, you could say "You'll know when your tulpa is becoming well-developed, because they'll start to really feel like another person in your head"

 

 

Edit: Oh right, you also asked about if you should be thinking about tulpas' thinking as a "black box". Well, that's a somewhat divisive subject. Sometimes it is that way for people (according to them), but it's not for our system, and it's hard to imagine how that would work if it somehow were true. Instead we think that conscious thoughts are always utilizing our brain's overall "conscious workspace", regardless of who is fronting/switched in and controlling the body/mind. That doesn't mean my tulpas "sound like me", just that the brain itself can only focus on creating conscious-thoughts in this way regardless of them being me or tulpa originated. That said, unconsciously my tulpas' thoughts (or even my own, when I'm switched out and effectively a tulpa myself) do appear to come "from nowhere", which is definitively what "unconscious" means. While I (or someone else switched in) can follow the origins and contexts of my thoughts all the way back, theirs/a non-fronter's do tend to just sort of spring up. BUT, that is pretty personal to how our system works, and more than enough people have claimed they work in different ways that I by no means want to claim "This is how it ALWAYS works for someone"

To be clear though, the main important point here is that while my tulpas can think and speak without me thinking-of-what-they'll-say, they cannot work through complex tasks like math or whatever else requires real mental processing power without using that same "conscious workspace" that I/whoever is fronting normally uses. And I'm confident in saying this is how just about everyone works, unique-brain-exceptions aside

Edited September 22, 2024 by Luminesce

[KusaNyan]

1 hour ago, Luminesce said:

I'll just answer your DM questions here as well, since I don't like writing a bunch of general-info that only one person can see:

Thank you for your thorough and insightful post. It has addressed many of my concerns about tulpa formation. To clarify, when I mentioned concerns about harming my tulpa, I was more worried about compromising their autonomy or "personhood"—specifically denying their thoughts due to my own underlying perceptions of what a tulpa should be or do. I wasn’t referring to their physical form. However, your explanation has alleviated some of these concerns in that regard as well.

1 hour ago, Luminesce said:

So unfortunately since the problems you've described are just a bit too wide-reaching in your brain, I have to defer on that subject to a therapist/psychiatrist (but who knows, maybe you've got something like ADHD and treating it could improve your life in general as well as making tulpamancy easier)

I do have ADHD and am currently being treated with medication. However, I’m still concerned that either the medication may not be addressing the issue of a "noisy mind" sufficiently or that it’s overly suppressing it. Since starting treatment, I’ve noticed more consistent streams of thought, but this has led to fewer spontaneous thoughts arising. Before treatment, when I would try to meditate, thoughts would surface from all directions, which I could acknowledge as random. Now, those thoughts occur less frequently, and this seems to make it harder for random thoughts—perhaps from my tulpa—to emerge. Yet, paradoxically, I also still find that these same random streams of thought can easily divert my attention away from focusing on my tulpa.

1 hour ago, Luminesce said:

People who believe general Tulpa.info tulpamancy (or say, a popular guide) is some sacred spiritual experience, or the epitome of established psychological practice, and believe all the standard positive-productive advice our members tend to give out without doubting anything, probably end up having the exact defined experience we were telling them they could have and in a pretty short time.

It’s a mixed experience for me. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing various tips, tricks, and guides, but I realize that my journey with tulpa formation is ultimately personal, and no guide will align perfectly with my experience. Perhaps one day, if I successfully form a tulpa, I could write a progress log or guide of my own to share my insights. However, I suspect much of what I would include has already been covered by existing guides, making it somewhat redundant.

1 hour ago, Luminesce said:

Instead we think that conscious thoughts are always utilizing our brain's overall "conscious workspace", regardless of who is fronting/switched in and controlling the body/mind. That doesn't mean my tulpas "sound like me", just that the brain itself can only focus on creating conscious-thoughts in this way regardless of them being me or tulpa originated. That said, unconsciously my tulpas' thoughts (or even my own, when I'm switched out and effectively a tulpa myself) do appear to come "from nowhere", which is definitively what "unconscious" means. While I (or someone else switched in) can follow the origins and contexts of my thoughts all the way back, theirs/a non-fronter's do tend to just sort of spring up.

This brings me to one of my core challenges with tulpa development: understanding the conscious workspace and how thoughts relate to it. While I regularly recognize intrusive thoughts and do not act on them, distinguishing between deliberate thought and the passive flow of thoughts has become increasingly difficult. How do I discern between different types of thoughts in this context?

6 hours ago, KusaNyan said:

Similarly, if it's not too much to ask, how do you distinguish between talking to your tulpa and simply narrating?

Lastly, I want to mention something I brought up in a direct message, in case you missed it or I didn’t see a response addressing it explicitly. I remain quite curious about this point.

[KusaNyan]

6 minutes ago, KusaNyan said:

Thank you for your thorough and insightful post.

By the way, please don't feel obligated to respond to this entire message all at once, or even at all. I understand how challenging it can be, and I don’t want to place any unnecessary burden on you or anyone else whose reading this by making them feel obligated to reply.

[Luminesce]

9 minutes ago, KusaNyan said:

Similarly, if it's not too much to ask, how do you distinguish between talking to your tulpa and simply narrating?

 

Just the intent to be talking to them/for them to be present, I guess? (Though in narration, there should still at least be "intent for them to be listening" (ie a non-vocal tulpa))

 

I really don't know what to say about the trouble distinguishing deliberate vs passive/random thoughts, that's simply not an experience I can relate to, and I assume it's related to either your ADHD or the medication you take

 

If it's distressing, you could try talking to your doctor about trying another ADHD med instead - assuming this one isn't clearly helping you in other ways

Edited September 22, 2024 by Luminesce

[KusaNyan]

17 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Just the intent to be talking to them/for them to be present, I guess? (Though in narration, there should still at least be "intent for them to be listening" (ie a non-vocal tulpa))

That’s understandable. Ideally, I’d hope that all of my discussions with my tupla are an active conversation, and ideally, I'd like to have an ongoing conversation with my tupla, but given that I’m currently unable to hear their responses, it may inevitably turn into more of a one-sided narration.

17 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

I really don't know what to say about the trouble distinguishing deliberate vs passive/random thoughts, that's simply not an experience I can relate to, and I assume it's related to either your ADHD or the medication you take

 

If it's distressing, you could try talking to your doctor about trying another ADHD med instead - assuming this one isn't clearly helping you in other ways

Yes, I’m uncertain as well. It seems like one of those things where continual practice will eventually provide a clearer understanding of how it all works. I haven’t been in the best mental state to fully articulate my thought processes either, yet I’ve been trying to do so regardless😅. With that in mind, I’ve decided to read through your Q&A thread, as I think it will provide me with some valuable clarity.

Edited September 22, 2024 by KusaNyan

[Luminesce]

Well, that's more still in our signatures for people to ask questions in, reading through the 9-year old posts is.. Uh, a historical view, I guess..

(Asking good questions in dedicated threads is still better though)

[KusaNyan]

10 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Well, that's more still in our signatures for people to ask questions in, reading through the 9-year old posts is.. Uh, a historical view, I guess..

(Asking good questions in dedicated threads is still better though)

I don’t know, based on my experience with the site, most of the posts I’ve seen were written about 10 years ago anyway. So, it's no big difference. 😅

[KusaNyan]

Commenting here to provide an update, though I know there’s a dedicated section for progress reports, but I also have a couple of questions I wanted to ask. I’ve been narrating to and trying to communicate with my tulpa, but the responses so far are limited, and I’m not entirely sure if the messages are actually coming from my tulpa or if I’m misinterpreting them. I think this might be tied to how society, and by extension, we, are so dependent on language as our primary communication tool. That said, I’ve also "seen" my tulpa in my imagination, reacting to me with facial expressions, and my visualization seems to be getting better—at least the colors have gotten a little more vivid.

 

As for my questions, does anyone have any advice on the psychology or "perspective shifts" that might be important to recognize when developing a tulpa? Are there things that beginners, or even more experienced individuals, might not realize are limiting them from fully connecting with their tulpa? I understand it takes time, but I’m wondering if there are other mental habits or unconscious processes that could be holding back progress—things that are so second nature you don’t even think twice about them but could be impacting how you form or communicate with your tulpa, even if it’s just about how you perceive the world inside your mind.

 

I’d especially appreciate insights from more advanced tulpamancers (and by "advanced," I simply refer to anyone who can actively talk with their tulpas). Were there any realizations you had to make, or things you came to acknowledge as second nature—even just facts about how your thoughts work—that helped you break through? Any thoughts or insights on that would be really helpful.