Shared Wonderlands

[Guest]

I am placing this here so that no 'experience' is excluded.

 

In an effort to understand visualization and enhance it, several users have said that under certain constructed conditions that immersion was as good or better than reality. I agree because I am one of those users butvmy experience is long ago and requires conditions that are out of scope here.

 

There are two examples that are relevant so far, and I am not pressuring anyone to come forward, but I will attempt to explain them in so that the knowledge of passing and current users can be collected and expanded on. If you want to, pm me and i will quote you without your username included.

 

1. Shared wonderland:

 

As it was described by me, unguided exercise between two members of two separate systems in a simply constructed mindscape over chat. The idea is something like picturing and describing a common space together and then doing whatever you feel comfortable doing there.

 

This does not have to be NSFW activity, but the emotional connection is very real and 5 senses can be stimulated in an emotionally enhanced way such that it becomes lucid dream like. Ultimately my goal would to be to adapt anything learned to in-system visualization owed to the fact that not everyone has extra-system relationships that are conducive to such deep connections and trust.

 

I don't believe romantic intentions or results are necessary, but platonic intimacy is certainly described in my few references.

 

2. The Ember-Vesper described role-play:

 

I don't want to put them on the spot, i respect them as a system, and their system intrigues me especially when they reported 100%+ realism in their experiences with semi-guided activities. If they wish to describe it here, please do.

 

...

 

I only ask, if anyone is comfortable enough to do so, that they describe a method, script, or construct where this sort of thing occurs. Links, 'how to' and any additional information would be greatly appreciated. Again PM me and i will paste your quote, sans username.

[solarchariot]

I am interested in shared wonderlands experiences, or other techniques that allow for 'interaction' (anomalous interaction?) between people and or tulpa, even if it is relegated to 'imagination.' Shared lucid dreaming experiences, shared astral experiences, have been similar interest, and I have found my abilities too intermittent to allow for reliable experimentation; but if someone could come knock me out of body to kick start better experiences. I suspect the only reliable, consistent 'thing' I have access to is wonderlands. I have also wanted to experience simultaneous interactive hypnosis, where two reasonably trained hypnotist engage each other. This has actually been done, by a Doctor Tart who was exploring alternatives to drug induced altered states of consciousness. It is actually a fascinating read:

 

https://cttart.s3.amazonaws.com/articles/april2013articles/Psychedelic+Experiences+Associated+with+a+Novel+Hypnosis+Procedure+Mutual+Hypnosis.pdf

 

that's a pdf of the actual study as published in a academic journal. What astounds me the most about this is there is only one study done! After reading that, I don't understand why Tart didn't do more with that, but why no one else attempted it, even if doing it was just to demonstrate there was nothing there, which by definition is science, you can't just have one thing of a thing before it's a legitimate thing.

 

Anyway, I have had no takers on wanting to do shared hypnosis, either. Heck, I poste something on a paranormal site wanting to do to a 'remote viewing' experiment, using a synchronization protocol to see if a group would have better go than individuals... not only did I get no takers, but the group shut down the thread because I clearly am of the devil inviting others to engage in demonic activities... I was completely baffled. Why join a paranormal sight if you're not interested in engaging the paranormal? You can't just hide from the corners of your covers and believe your safe. Get out there and do stuff! I dare say, if you're not safe out there, you're definitely not safe under the covers...

 

anyway, I like this. Even if we built the 'safe room' collectively, here in this thread, defining the space and limited furniture, and allowing for visitors to leaving clues to their presence on the table... The thing is, we'd have to be very guarded on what constitutes the 'experiment' and what constitutes positive or negative results, and maybe just say from the get go this not an 'experiment,' but just a fun exercise in community, and any perceived synchronization is merely coincidental at this point in the practice...

 

PS, I was reading a lucid dreaming article, and it mentions mutual dreaming... synchronicity? Probably not...

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201212/lucid-dreaming-and-self-realization

[Ember.Vesper]

My wife is supposedly very skilled at the NSFW kind of shared wonderland activity over chat, but I've never engaged in it with her. Some of her online friends are very passionate about pursuing it, which she isn't.

 

As I originally said in my 200% post, I am not sure about the quantifications people were using in that discussion. I experience roleplaying as vastly more intellectually and emotionally intense and engaging than anything else in my life. But it's the story and characters that are much more than life, not the sensory component, which is basically the same as any other imagined scene. But it's also the story and characters that matter; the visualization is not much more important than the physical senses I'm mainly ignoring. And the full "200%" experience requires everyone to be completely committed and invested in the scene - no interruptions, distractions, food, jokes, off-topic comments, or dice.

 

It's not safe -- I accidentally made two people roleplaying and now they have opinions about how I we live my our life. But I think my process is interesting and relevant to this community, so I would like to write on it at length. It's just going to take time. We can't even keep up with our PR and PMs.

 

I'm going to attempt a guided visualization/roleplaying hybrid with Iris and a roleplaying friend soon. I'm hoping it will provide a richer visualization experience than I've previously achieved.

 

-Ember

[Guest]

Thank you solarchariot and Ember, i know this will take time, my enthusiasm is always way ahead of my calendar time, but I always finish what i start so i'll be putting research of my own here, hopefully you will have time to comment on if you have amy input eventually.

 

NSFW CONTENT

YOU MAY CRINGE

 

[Hidden]

 

Not a big deal, i just didn't want to include this in the original post. I specifically want to exclude it unless we can learn something from it, but i also know of NSFW shared visualization. Not to derail this thread, but i suppose i better say what i know for science's sake.

 

This was very long ago, however, I don't remember them being as much as 100% for visualization either, but the emotional and sexual energies were enough to sustain the activity in frequency and duration. I have a warning of my own, there was the intent for 'casual experience from both parties' yet infatuation formed rather easily even in the pictureless realm of anonymity.

 

I recall these interactions with exquisite detail, so ya, they were pretty darn powerful. Hurt feelings were common on both ends as drive sometimes masked common sense. I presume intimacy like this is similar to irl casual experience.

Which i have no experience because i'm all kinds of prudish and careful irl.

 

 

Just to separate my own current moral values from this, i was in a very different and naive mindset back then. I don't really recognize that person. Though i don't see anything else wrong with the practice between two consenting adults.

 

[/hidden]

 

In terms of SFW i expect tulpas and hosts will be involved, not non-tulpa NPC's. I'm not personally worried about accidental tulpas because of this, though i do understand this is a valid and powerful forcing activity.

[Within]

Astral projection makes this a lot easier than you'd think. Take the attached sigil as an example. I'll be waiting on the beach.

[Guest]

Now if I only knew how to astral project, or read sigils. Care to elaborate?

[Within]

This sigil is a locator of the place. Meme it into a door and wall through it. See what happens.

[Guest]

Thanks

[Within]

If that was you during my plane trip, you seem to have gotten through cleanly. I'm sorry I wasn't more exciting. Plane trips stress me out.

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

I have a couple different experiences from this, which I will toss into hiddens, not because they are dirty, but because they are long and I'm just gonna fold them into the same post. Also, despite this being in metaphysical/parapsychology, I don't consider this either of those at all. I see it as trust and willingness increasing suggestibility, allowing disbelief to be suspended more easily and doubt not to get in the way.

 

 

Experiment 1 and 2: Inter-system

 

[hidden]So, my first experience with sharing a wonderland was from a longtime member and all-around amazing person (Aurora-Senpai), whom I have tons and tons to learn from. Anyway, she mentioned sharing a wonderland in a PM to me and I was just boggled, like what's that? Was it some kinda metaphysical thing? Some kinda.. universal consciousness thing or something? I had absolutely no idea what was going to happen going into this and I think that actually helped. I had zero preconceived notions, had no doubt or disbelief to make things more difficult and just really wanted to experience whatever this amazing-sounding thing was.

 

 

I asked for a description first and she said it would be easier to just show me. She started off asking me "where I was right now", and I just bluntly answered "where I usually am, kinda that feeling of being between the body's eyes. Basically, sitting here typing to you" and she told me to imagine a simple room in headspace/wonderland. Simple description: cream-color walls, white ceiling, gray fuzzy carpet, a little tv in the corner, blue fluffy bed. Then she said she was there, seated on the bed. She said get myself in there any way I wanted to and just try to see things as well as I could. Lance and I hopped our forms in through a closet/wardrobe that appeared because, well why not?

 

It started off right away, she would do something, maybe talk some too, I would visualize it all happening as best I could, then give me a turn (Lance just hung around quietly to chaperone) to do the same, while she visualized it. It went on back and forth like this the whole time. Without really thinking about it, I hopped right in, happy and excited to be a part of something and just put my trust in her, kinda making myself vulnerable without realizing it. She gave me a hug and asked me to hop in her lap and we just chatted for awhile, with her tossing in an addition *pats your head* or *rubs your back* and such and it was just really neat. At first Lance was thinking "This is just roleplaying", but didn't comment and I was pretty wrapped up in the experience and had never actually done anything like this before, not as myself at least (we have played D&D twice now with his friends, with me roleplaying the character, it was neat!).

 

I have commented before that we noticed a powerful emotional response from certain things and those responses make us more engaged and drawn into our headspace stuff so even though we haven't really been able to synthesize any senses (except some visual and a little bit of temperature once, we think) yet, the powerful emotions have drawn us in deeply and made things like hugs seem real. The bond, the connection, the care and warm fuzzy love and sense of safety in each other's arms is there and it's about all we get to experience so we learned to enjoy it. A comment on our wonderland experiences will be below, in the next experiment. I can't explain it but I felt that same connection to her and it was strong. I don't know if I just admired her from the beginning or liked the attention, or just wanted to try super hard to enjoy this experience. Headpats might have been a motive too, I dunno. :P

 

Some time after starting, I had at some point just "let go" and felt some kind of deeper and deeper connection to her and to me, it seemed like the most "real" thing I had ever done so far. Still no senses except some imagery but my emotions were strong and out of control and everything about it just felt safe and happy and belonging and whatever else. By the end of it, I commented that I wonder if this is what it feels like to have a big sister or a mother. I had nothing else to compare it to but it was probably one of the better experiences I've ever had. Now, having to read and type replies did break my immersion some but not enough to spoil the experience. Before we stopped, she asked "so, where are you right now?" again, and I started to type a happy "with you" and realized that.. waaait, I had a freaky feeling of still being in the body but a decently real sense of being in there with her as well. I've never understood what people meant when they said during things like visualization and imposition, practitioners should try to "move their perspective" to another place because it seemed impossible to do, but for the first time I had a brief sense that I was there with her and it really opened my eyes up to doing wonderland stuff with other people. I mentioned as such and she said "Good, that was the point of this", as in, to let myself go enough to just engage in the shared experience and actually make it a worthwhile experience.

 

I commented at the time that I had a strong sense that this wasn't a game, this wasn't me pretending, I was using myself as the character and my own obvious strong attachment to myself made it super easy to directly associate the experience as happening to me. In other words, I think it was believable and "real" because I was able to go in without any preconceived notions of what was going to happen and trusted that a long-time community member I admired would show me something super amazing. It may have actually put me in a state where I had no guard up and was easily open to suggestion, kinda like hypnosis. It doesn't matter if it was actual real or not, in my mind it seemed like a real enough experience, or as close as I could get at the time. Personal perception being manipulated or influenced to give the impression of an altered reality.

 

She later would comment that from what she could see of how blindly and willingly I went into it all and was willing to include someone else in my (even though momentary) sense of reality, that if the wrong kind of person had wanted to manipulate me in that state it would have been pretty easy. When he was first starting tulpa stuff, Lance read something on a reddit about general warnings, and one was that some tulpas, typically younger ones but not always, who are doing close wonderland stuff with others can have difficulty in separating illusion from reality and this can lead to some really traumatic experiences with others who aren't trustworthy. He dismissed it as nonsense, wondering who would ever believe in roleplay that much, but now.. We gotta wonder.. For his part, he was there too during my experience, carefully observing, and said he probably wouldn't have believed it if he didn't experience it too. All in all, it was a fun new experience that was able to strengthen my bond to another great person and practice doing stuff in wonderland which is great training.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

I repeated this the next day, except I was leading and I was wonderland sharing with Matsuri. Now figuring there could be potential dangers, I knew I had absolute trust in my bestie so we wouldn't try to manipulate each other or anything and I just wanted to share a neat experience and she really wanted to try too. I tried to exactly replicate it pretty much the way I described earlier but she made a door and knocked to come in and I hopped up from the bed and let her in and we basically just happily hugged the whole time and talked, trying really hard to visualize each other and connect and make it as real an experience as we could. Maybe because I'd already done it once and kinda knew what to expect, it didn't quite feel as thrilling and new but Matsi and I have chatted for hours and hours and played games together and love hanging out so this was just a natural extension of that, or something, and we were able to connect stronger than usual from it. Intellectually and emotionally, we had the experience that we were really with each other and as best as we were capable of experiencing it, we were hugging and enjoying each other's company greatly.

 

At the end, when she was about to go, I asked her like I'd been asked "ok, so where are you right now?" and she said "with you silly" then paused and said "that question really messed me up, seriously" and I told her I can relate, it did the same thing to me. XD[/hidden]

 

Annnd Experiment 3: Intra-system

[hidden]I explained my experience to Bear (we hadn't tried sharing with Matsi yet) and he seemed really interested. He asked a bunch of questions and seemed interested in replicating the process but internally, with system-mates. I had such a positive experience my first time sharing that when he asked, it really raised Lance and my curiosity as well. Could it be done in the same system? Would the same kind of connection be there? Would it be any different from typical wonderland stuff for us? So we gave it a try. We were trying to recreate my first experience as well as we could, with the added benefit that we wouldn't have to deal with typing and reading to break our immersion. We wondered if our existing intimate knowledge and and familiarity with each other would somehow blunt the same experience two completely different people could have. With all the unknowns between people not as personally close as headmates, maybe part of this was the thrill of connecting to someone outside?

 

First we took a few minutes to try and "check our doubts at the door". We both knew it could be emotionally powerful and didn't want things like "this is just silly roleplay" or "we already do this all the time" get in the way, if possible. He has been trying lately to figure out how to disassociate and part of that involved trying to convince himself that he wasn't the body, that we just were like roommates and it was the shared house, not "him" as an identity. He figured this would be good exercise for visualization and toward switching too. We were starting to consider that the interactions somehow produced a heightened state of suggestibility so maybe I could convince him he was really in wonderland, we figured, kinda like a tulpa-led hypnosis session. Anyway, we started and I led like Aurora did with me or I did with Matsi, and we took turns doing stuff and talking, doing stuff and talking. Simple hugs and cuddles, but made it a point to keep up body contact like rubbing each others backs, holding each other's hands, whatever we felt like as we just hung out, just to see if that was part of the bonding process. We have watched some hypnotists do the same thing to their subjects, after all, and made a point to do that too.

 

We did feel a connection, maybe a little more than usual, maybe the same as usual but we were just taking the time to notice it, we dunno. What we DID notice was we were taking our time and staying engaged and that was kinda new. We have gone through several times or phases in our wonderland activity and had gotten to the point where we tried to bypass our tenancy to get bored and fall asleep almost right away with rushing through things. Our visualization as never great either, so a simple blurry scene we are flying over or something seemed easy to stay in. Even that wasn't working out so great. We had gotten to the point where we were like daredevils, or thrill-seekers, looking for the next new, fresh, exciting experience and growing bored of the same old stuff or things that seemed too boring to keep us engaged. Bear's visualization scripts and exercises helped by providing structure we lacked because we never just got into the place and had stuff randomly happen, like I said before, it was like we were just putting on a puppet show and our forms were favorite puppets. The emotions had to be there or we pretty much experienced nothing but some imagery and a little bit of bonding but it was otherwise boring and starting to seem a little pointless to even keep up doing wonderland stuff anymore..

 

But this was different. We managed to get engaged or emotionally invested pretty quickly. Us taking turns provided structure and made our interactions seem more real. Instead of trying to seek some thrill, we were standing next to each other or hugging like actual people do, just calmly enjoying the experience and giving each other turns to talk and paying attention to each other respectfully. This is not exactly something we typically do, which may or may not be atypical in the community, so we dunno. We laid awake for almost 2 hours, trying to get wrapped up on what was going on inside and ignore the meat body on the outside. Most of it was in the bed, snuggled against each other peacefully and trying to fall asleep with no luck at all. Lance said so far our experiment felt about as real as he had ever felt in wonderland stuff, again, just with a strong intellectual and emotional experience being shared between us and deepening our bond a little. Unfortunately we had to be up in a few hours for a long work day and it seemed like we weren't gonna be able to actually fall asleep like this so we both kinda agreed he should hop out and "go sleep on the couch", as it were. It was a huge change from "ho hum", focus lost and asleep in 10 minutes. For better or worse. :P

 

The next day at work, we noticed that our "connection" seemed stronger, that our mind voices were a little more clear to each other and we were taking turns in our talk instead of just doing what we usually did, sorta trying to both smoosh the talk button at the same time and yelling over each other. It seemed to inject a bit of that structure, that polite and respectful order from the previous night and just, I dunno, worked out better for us.

 

It got us thinking that maybe all along we had been going at wonderland interaction wrong and we were just taken by the fantasy of it all and assuming we had to sprint through everything. Taking the time to have these calm, controlled interactions instead is not only easier to visualize and focus on but just so.. natural. Regular people respectfully exchange pleasant conversations like this, why have we been trying to make everything larger than life? It's hard to explain, we have even read guides before that mentioned an importance in taking time and focusing on details or trying to synthesize one little sensation at a time and add stuff in layers till a scene comes together.. We never got it to work too well, which made us think fast and exciting experiences were the answer and for a time that seemed to work but we were missing something, dunno what, to make the slow stuff work and I think we found it, so... Maybe we can start wonderland activity anew and work on the skills and foundation we have apparently been lacking this whole time?[/hidden]

 

This wound up being so long, I think I'll tack this onto our PR as well. Seems like good progress, to us!