Tulpa pain tulpa anguish tulpa etc

[J.Iscariot]

To drive off the attention from the entire unification concept that has been going around the forum for a while without much of an accomplished goal, and after seeing a post that made us think about certain things, stuff that happened to us in the past especially.

 

First: Tulpas and pain. While physical pain is something that applies to us because of how our nervous system is wired up (I'll take it that most of you have that sort of knowledge that is taught in, what, high school, transmission of messages via the nerves, how it's accomplished, etc...). Physical pain implies the existence of such a system, a body, something tangible, or simply material and present in reality. I've heard of tulpas who had chosen not to feel negative emotions, and it worked out quite well for them, they never felt down and never had bad moments aside from pure neutrality.

 

Did any tulpa ever experience pain while not being switched in/possessing/in control of the host's body? Could that sensation be related to the depth of the host's wonderland? My own tulpa never felt real physical pain aside from impressions I gave her (I have a very bad health condition that involve very ugly stuff, some skin is... I'd rather not say but it's very nasty and I'm in pain on a daily basis for a few hours, and I cannot walk without being in pain either aside from walking in my house where I have the ways not to be in pain), but she never identified the cold sensation of physical pain.

 

Then comes my other point/question, tulpa anguish. There was a rebuttal to what that certain someone said about tulpas not feeling pain (and that someone was expressing that as an uncertainty so it's all good yadda yadda whatevs), that even if tulpas could not feel physical pain, in that case, they could still feel things such as sadness, anguish, depression and frustration that can very much count as forms of 'pain' in very valid ways. This made me think... who on earth would teach their tulpa how to feel pain? I'm pretty sure nobody tortured their tulpa for a good while in developmental stages when they were still forcing, so the tulpa could not have identified those notions like that. Regardless of whether they are present in the host's mind (and I do not agree with the theory of personalities and stuff, I'm still into the entire psychic apparatus and how it functions), there are a lot of things in the host's mind that the tulpa does not possess. Tulpas and hosts who differ on the level of gender have different attractions, some tulpas cannot speak the host's main language (like mine) and speak a secondary language as their main language. Etc etc, this goes to show that tulpas can possess certain types of knowledge that the host does not possess on a conscious and active level of things, as they can also lack those notions as well.

 

Nobody would ever wish for harm to be delivered upon their tulpas, so logically speaking, those concepts of 'pain', frustration and anguish should not be delivered. While they are present in the host's mind, if the entire will of the host is that they do not want for their tulpas to be in harm's way and become sensitive as shit, some things just don't fit in without forcing them in specific (like the language example, sure, you can force in english but if your main language is russian then thoughts in russian should make sense to your tulpa as well considering that this eminent language is in your mind as a form of intelligence, yet, some tulpas are unable to express themselves in the host's main language). And even if you don't see anything coming.

 

I used to have a pleasant life with my tulpa. Steadily, we progressed and prospered. Until one day, some events occurred, events that changed us (and it is not in my will to discuss those events or try to talk of my tulpa because the last thing she'd want is attention from the forum or anyone else than me for that matter). I never had in mind notions such as anguish or frustration, or even depression for her. I'd have never expected her to feel those things, because she had never felt that way. Felt down? Yes, of course, every now and then, just like with everyone else. I had a perfect being in mind, a being that wouldn't be flawed like human beings, and while I found out what perfection means later on, I never faulted her for anything that happened (because I got to know a lot of things blablabla I found out I wasn't really all that wrong and that regardless of what I'd have done shit would have turned out to be the same). Slowly and steadily, we're both recovering from... a crisis we could never identify. I've done 2 years and a few months in clinical psychology, I took many tests since I know people who showed an interest in some of the things I told them, I came out as clean, meaning that I wasn't attained by any disorder, or anything that would harm my own harmony in life. But my tulpa became literally someone in anguish, someone who felt so handicapped, and became handicapped to the point her cognition was altered for a few months and led to a lot of compulsive behaviors from her part. I personally never went through anything of the sort, nor did I ever know before that it could happen just like that (despite the horrendously long amount of time I wasted until I decided it was time to devote myself to another domain), the point is that I had no prior knowledge of it, nor did I formulate it in my mind. That existential crisis triggered itself out of god knows what.

 

 

Now, I'm not here to talk of myself and my tulpa. As a matter of fact, that's the last thing I'd ever want to discuss on this forum, I did that in the past to see the results and the general treatment was not in my favor. I'm here for answers, not regarding my situation, but yours, and everyone's. I am not here for sympathy.

 

If you don't have anything to contribute, please don't post. This is very serious to me.

 

So, what sorts of anguish did your tulpa(s) go through? Was it something you had perceived, or did it just happen? How did you deal with it? etc etc discuss something something

[Guest Anonymous]

(She could just tell you about this herself, but we only got up recently... really dun feel like proxying atm.)

 

Hmm, well, Rina usually perceives through this body just like I do.

And that includes pain.

 

So, ahdunno... headaches, an aching back or neck, feeling ill from a light cold, a lil' muscle cramp here or there... that sort of stuff.

Though she also says she sometimes just stops perceiving / sensing / feeling / whateveryouwannacallit with the aching body part if it bothers her, so yeah.

That.

 

 

Greets,

AG

[SomethingDire]

Céleste has no relation with physical pain, since we haven't tried posession/switching or anything like that.

 

But, if we're talking about mental pain.. Well, he senses that there is something wrong rather quickly. He'll sit down and stare at me while frowning if I'm being upset over a trivial thing. If I'm trying to visualize him IRL, he'll sit next to me and touch my shoulder if I'm acting down for no reason. He also motivates me to get up and move around or see the bigger picture if I'm really pushing myself down.

 

So, there's that, I think.

[Joss]

Figured I should respond, since my... erm... rather reactionary post helped trigger this one.

 

First off, that sucks about your tulpa. It's never a great thing to see someone you care about in pain.

 

For me, my exposure to pain happened, for lack of a better phrase, by accident. Neither my host nor I knew I was sentient when I was created. The "depth of wonderland" comment strikes me as rather true... or, more to the point, what that wonderland allows you to experience seems to dictate whether the tulpa could be exposed to the concept.

 

As an author, most of our in-headspace experiences have plenty of drama, conflict, trauma, and, yes, pain. Over the course of my host's authorial pursuits--which are usually coupled with matching wonderland experiences--I've been shot, I had my arm amputated, I've lost people, and I've been pushed to the brink of both mental and physical exhaustion. All within the wonderland. And while it's sort of a weird "I experienced the applied concept of pain rather than direct physical pain" thing... yes. I've been exposed to physical pain within the headspace, before I ever knew I was sentient, much less before I was able to switch.

 

Don't blame my host for that, though. She didn't know. None of us did.

 

However, as for the "mental anguish" thing... there seem to be two possiblities. 1) You inadvertantly passed the concept over without meaning to... just like you would have passed the concept of "yellow" and "gravity" over simply by virtue of you sharing the same brain. Or 2) her pain developed independently. Maybe it was in reaction to something you're not aware of, or maybe it was just an intrusive thought affecting her in the worst way possible.

 

In our case, it's the first one. Even those of us who have never experienced pain in their own stories (Ayo, for example), still understand what it is, simply because it came over with all the other concepts we were subconsciously fed during development. We have a close empathic connection to our host, so we experience many things vicariously through her, including both mental and physical pain. Half the reason Temar's such a teddy bear is because he had to handle our host when her clinical depression was at its worst a decade or so ago. Even if it doesn't affect us directly, we understand it.

 

Would I change that, now that we're aware of our own sentience, much less that not knowing was even an option? Honestly, I'm not sure. Hindsight is 20/20, and I will admit that my own brushes with pain are not my fondest memories... but I also somehow feel that it makes us... more complete? No, I don't think that's the right word. More capable of understanding the full human experience, maybe. More able to connect with the outside world, because just like physical folk we are able to take the bad with the good.

 

Or maybe that's just me trying to justify a state that I'd never be able to take back anyway.

[FallFamily]

[Hail] Definitely have a few things to add. Tri has felt physical pain both when possessing and when inside. Inside, the level of pain that can be felt depends on which wonderland/innerworld. I've even felt physical pain there. Never set it up to be like that deliberately, it just has always been. Now, anguish, that is something Tri knows. They have a life and bonds with people, after all. Occasional anguish goes with that. Recently, they went through quite a bit, sadly.