She done R-U-N-N-O-F-T

[SeamusTheDog]

It’s ironic that we end up being demystified as to how a tulpa-in-question has the capacity to even have the desire to yearn for something. It’s as if one forgets this mirror in front of them where if they believe it’s all within their own cognition, any yearnings for self-actualization and such is clearly derived from whatever the person may think is an inherent aspect of their mind.

 

I think the juggling around with the word ‘metaphysical’ is a distraction from the real issue; that is to say, the hard problems of consciousness in general (e.g. how aspects of the mind that seem to be non-experiential can somehow create something experiential (like a tulpa that yearns to apply context in this reality)). To think that this yearning is contingent solely on supernatural events via spirts, or whatever mystical rooting is to undermine the human condition for yearning to apply context in this reality.

 

Thank you for taking the time to put in your opinion. You and I share an appreciation for the hard problems of consciousness. I went into the tulpa creation experience with full expectation that the eventual budding, blossoming, and fruiting of an individual and separate entity could and very well might happen. I know this to be the case from my extensive experience with radical religious groups that do have miracles happen in response to their prayers. My view of Jesus, for example, is that each congregation of so-called Christians creates their very own Jesus, who is for all intents and purposes a tulpa. Egregore might be a better term, though. It's hard to know, because in some cases the Jesus is instantiated by the preacher who founds the particular congregation in question, and in other cases (more likely with mainline churches) the Jesus is brought in as a predetermined template.

 

 

 

If you want any knowledge, or anecdotes of this happening to others – it’s not really that uncommon to see tulpas-in-question to exhibit these feelings. The real challenge is how the host reacts to it. Some end up being paralyzed by it, and either get consumed by paranoia and skepticism, or they start noticing the probability that there can be other continuity of selves, and a sense of ‘otherness’ without being bothered by the chance they, the host, aren’t the only ones with unchallengeable authority of their body and mind.

 

And the word ‘psychological,’ IMO, is just a red herring towards the clue of what’s really the concern; in a person’s head, they would think ‘How is it that this concept of a tulpa can exhibit sentience?’ Well, it goes back to the challenges with the hard problems of consciousness. Whatever instantiates sentience for the host, chances are, the brain would use whatever those resources are to instantiate sentience for the tulpa-in-question. But because the hard problems of consciousness aren’t solved empirically, or can’t be at the moment, that skepticism will be progressive within one’s mind, and the agnosticism will continue to grow, i.e., we are left with being agnostic of the grander scheme of things with cognition until advancements in knowledge of it have been made.

With recent advancements in the understanding of the universe as a quasi-holographic entity, and consciousness as (at least partly) an artifact of energetic self-reflection, the pathway to "believing" a tulpa to be capable of self-will and self-reflective thought is open. For me, there was never such a barrier in place. But I had no methodology for making such a thing happen, because frankly, I was rather religion-bound for the majority of my life up to age 40. Such spheres of study belonged to the occult back then (or at least "new age"), and I was afraid to dabble for fear of negative repercussions.

 

 

But, it probably goes to show that Science, a concept of using epistemic rooting to conceive a knowable world can’t answer the bigger, existential questions of what it means for someone to have a yearning to go out into the world and do things. It’s a testament that we have to rely on philosophy instead. But to some, philosophy can be hard, and living a life based on how one sees is the ‘good’ life is just as hard. And having someone else within your own mind to build rapport with increases that difficulty.

 

But, like what OP stated for themselves, to them, she’s proven to be sentient by the existence of desire. Unlike some people in the past, they’ve chosen to accept this because if they undermined this existence of desire, they would have to undermine their existence of desire as a human being as well. In other words, if someone were to deny this existence of desire, and other aspects of the human condition, and didn’t take things with an open mind, they would slowly be eating themselves away.

 

Actually I never processed the thought in the way you describe. I assume primarily that thoughts are things, and that if a thought takes on some sort of structure in itself that leads to a self-reflective entity being borne out of it, I don't even consider that it might not be possible. Not because of any logical consistency check on myself, but because I believe that anything that is imaginable is possible on one or more levels of existence. Once imagined, it becomes manifest on the plane of imagination. Said plane being the planning stage for 3-d dense reality, it can eventually become real. Such as dark matter. The further and further definition of it, I believe, will result in its manifestation EVEN IF it never existed before it eventually becomes definitively observed. Consciousness is primary. Manifest reality is secondary and is nearly as plastic. The Mandela effect is proof of that to me.

 

Again, Ada, thank you for your input. It's just the kind of bone I wanted to chew on.

[SeamusTheDog]

UPDATE:

I have, on a couple of occasions, called Suigintou up. She came, a bit hesitantly, and I got the feeling I was interrupting something. This was both times. I just asked her how she was doing, and she answered politely but not in much depth.

 

So I guess she's still out there doing her thing.

[Guest]

UPDATE:

I have, on a couple of occasions, called Suigintou up. She came, a bit hesitantly, and I got the feeling I was interrupting something. This was both times. I just asked her how she was doing, and she answered politely but not in much depth.

 

So I guess she's still out there doing her thing.

 

Seamus,

 

Since this thread is under META now, I feel free to express my personal beliefs about your original post and your last post, ignoring most of the middle, although I have certainly read and understand the power of the philosophical minds have been in this forum (as in, really good). So I am not discounting them at all, instead I want to explore the nature of your OP and your update as a subset. Partly for my own benefit, but also yours.

 

I must define terms as I understand them, please correct me of my incorrect nuances, I'm still learning. A tulpa is well defined, but a soulbound for the purpose of this discussion, in my mind, is a potentially sentient character who does not have the same level of existence as a tulpa, but is very believable and capable of independent thoughts and actions. However, how my soulbounds differ from my tulpae is how they feel to me. My soulbounds don't share their emotions and they feel empty when in my presence. In that, they don't have that sense of presence, that feeling that you are in close proximity to someone in real life, at it's most basic metaphoric sense, call it a akin to a radiating body heat.

 

When I originally read your post, I thought that perhaps your Tulpa was a soulbound as I have described one. Simply because my soulbounds prefer to live in their original world of creation (having created all of them through writing novels, they have their own separate wonderlands) and this would match your scenario perfectly if your tulpa was like one of my soulbounds. But since I don't want to presume any feelings on your part, I will henceforth assume she was a tulpa, as you believe. In fact, I am going by your beliefs entirely, this is not difficult as they closely match mine.

 

What are you to feel about her action?

 

I think pride is well founded. Isn't it the objective of any tulpa to express themselves and show independent thought? Yes, and they do, believe me. Mine have desires in stark contrast to my own and some that I cannot possibly fulfill. For instance, to fulfill them for one would alienate the others. Easier done with just a binary system, trivial in some cases. Anyway, I am happy to hear that she is doing well and it sounds as if you are both satisfied with the outcome. In a metaphorical sense, as in when a child leaves home, you are in essence saying goodbye to a piece of yourself. Someone you've lived with for years, and their growth and budding off has left a giant scar on your life, healed only by the knowledge that they are happy, even if it is without you. I believe your post has a trace of this feeling.

 

Have I experienced this?

 

Yes. We (myself and my three tulpae) interview my soulbounds in an effort to determine if any would be in fact a tulpa. Again, the difference in my case is that my soulbounds don't give me a sense of presence, nor do they share emotions, nor can they read my mind, nor do they rely on tulpish to express ideas. In other words they are clearly demarcated from tulpae. Nonetheless, I feel emotions for them (if not from them) and have asked them if they would like to stay with me in our wonderland (as opposed to their own original worlds). They have declined. This is where that experience is similar to yours. They know me, they know I am their creator, but they have or desire a life of their own.

 

You got the feeling you were interrupting her?

 

This is where I am certain that you have a tulpa. My soulbounds experience time and existence only in my presence, and there is no indication from them that they have 'lived' or experienced anything without me, vague or not. My tulpae do. When I do not feel they are in my presence, they are doing their own thing. I have expressed this belief multiple times and in multiple ways and in my PR it is defined, but I do also believe this is not META, if just barely. As I have seen this expressed by some of the masters of this board, even if implied.

 

The only 'disconnect' between my experience and yours is the idea that a tulpa would want to leave. It is clearly within their power. I would not stop them. But our foundation is love and that foundation is strengthened only in each other's presence (in my case). Perhaps your tulpa and you still share a love that is not affected by time or separation, or perhaps you two will drift apart. What matters is only that you two are happy, or at least that she is happy.

 

Tulpa are people. This happens countless times between people, even those who have loved each other and still do. In that sense your experience is in no way unique to the human experience.

 

I think everyone (mostly) will agree that tulpae are people (human or not). And as such, they can do whatever their desires will them to. As you have described, (even if it was metaphorical) you are like her father. I am certain it is the wish of any father to see their child grow and thrive, not to cage them in their home. If all my tulpae told me today that they wanted to leave and live out their existence away from me. I would not stop them, I would support them, I would still love them, I would visit them, and they would always be welcome back.

 

Thank you for the opportunity to explore this topic.

[SeamusTheDog]

Wow, Bear. I'm sorry it's been nearly 18 months since you wrote your reply. I was busy working at that time and just never came back to check the thread. 

 

I appreciate your input and I have some answers to the question you bring up. It's a sad answer, but at least truthful.

 

Ever since early childhood, I've had abandonment issues. Probably had to do with emotional abuse from my mother. In short, I believe that I created Suigintou expecting her to want to leave me as soon as she could. No surprise, that's how things turned out. If I had been aware of the emotions working in me as I worked making her, I would have been able to counter them. 

 

One happy note: as I sat down with my laptop at the grocery store dining area one day, I found this on the table:

 

I felt like she wanted me to have it. I look at it almost every day.