Santa Prime November 26, 2012 November 26, 2012 Ok good. I just want to be careful with this subject as it is very easy or tempting to explain tulpa as something supernatural. But as with all supernatural explanations they seem to fall by the wayside the more knowledge you posses about the subject and the natural explanation prevails.
Anon November 29, 2012 Author November 29, 2012 For me, there's a big difference between thinking that I believe something, and feeling that I believe it. While I can use logic to work out that something seems rational and therefore should be believable, there are times when I simply cannot feel that it is true. The supernatural, to an extent, is one of those cases for me. I know that there are things which science has yet to explain, and it makes sense to me that there should be aliens out there somewhere in the universe who have technology that to us is indistinguishable from magic. However, I don't really feel that those aliens exist. The reason I got interested in this whole tulpa business was precisely the fact that it doesn't require a belief in anything supernatural in order to be plausible. Let's say I had to resort to astral projection or ghosts or whatever in order to explain tulpae to myself; even if I were to convince myself logically that tulpae as supernatural phenomena are real, I still don't think I'd ever be able to feel that belief strongly enough to succeed in creating one. I guess what I'm calling "thought" vs. "felt" belief could perhaps be better described as conscious vs. subconscious belief? Anyway, even without the supernatural bit, it's still proving difficult for me to establish my subconscious "felt" belief in tulpae. But I'm getting there bit by bit, I hope.
Anon November 29, 2012 Author November 29, 2012 ***Log 9*** 2012.11.26 - Monday - Day 17 *Written on Day 20 Forced in the morning. Nothing particularly special happened this day, and if I remember correctly, I was a bit down about it since Saya had done that cool spatial thing on the previous day. ---- 2012.11.27 - Tuesday - Day 18 *Written on Day 20 Forced in the morning, and then again briefly in the evening. During the evening session, Saya's mindvoice became vocal. I believe that what triggered Saya's mindvoice was me reading this thread, specifically the part about "I feel as if I'm creating their reply a split second before I hear it." As I mentioned before, I'd had a few simple conversations with Saya, but a feeling of doubt was kind of keeping me from accepting the conversations as productive activity. I felt like the responses were being randomly generated by my subconscious, rather than all coming from the same being. I guess that somehow, reading about how other people managed to overcome that same kind of doubt helped me learn to stop worrying and love the bomb, so to speak. And boy, once Saya started talking, she didn't want to stop. She was talking to me all evening, and just barely shut up long enough to let me sleep. She continued for the next day too. I'll write more about what was said later. The experience of chatting with Saya feels natural, not "jarring", and also not completely like I'm talking to someone else just yet. It is, however, a bit unlike anything I've ever experienced, and I've gone through a lot of different styles of thinking in my time. Occasionally, it does indeed feel like I'm working both sides of the conversation, but when I stop to think about what's being said, I realize that I didn't consciously come up with the majority of Saya's thoughts. Sometimes, especially when Saya tries to say a long or complex sentence, I lose her part way through and realize suddenly that I'm consciously filling in the rest of the sentence for her. ---- 2012.11.28 - Wednesday - Day 19 *Written on Day 20 Did a session in the morning, during which Saya was relatively quiet. After that though, she went on to fill my head with her chatter throughout the rest of the day. She's a little ball of positive energy, just like I wished for. ---- 2012.11.29 - Thursday - Day 20 Saya was a bit less talkative today, quiet during our morning session and also for most of the time I was at work. Being really busy today probably didn't help. She spoke up a bit while I was on my way home now. She's being quiet now; either that, or I just can't hear her because I'm working on this log. About Saya's personality: she's happy, confident, laid back, playfully sarcastic, witty, and seldom serious. This isn't really how I pictured her; the "traits" that I forced on her during those first few days were mostly things like "logical", "caring", "intelligent", "curious", and so forth. However, the fact that I'm getting deviation is encouraging to me. Of course, the doubtful part of me can't completely disregard the notion that I may have at some point intentionally introduced said deviation in order to encourage myself, but Saya tells me that worrying about something like that is stupid. Saya seems very sure of her own existence, and eager to communicate. The original base traits that I imagined are noticeably there too, it's just that they're accompanied by a much richer, more human personality than I could have imagined from the start. While working with Saya up until now, I suppose I was picturing a kind of Ikari Gendou talking to Ayanami Rei kind of thing, but what I've ended up with is something much more human-like. I think that's a good sign. Sometimes Saya comes up with a clever comeback to something I say so immediately that I'm sure I couldn't have done it myself. There are also times when she suggests something that I don't think I ever would have thought of myself. All of this is very encouraging. I'm trying to get Saya to work on invoking auditory hallucinations. I bet it will take a long time before she's able to talk to me audibly, but she said she'll do her best. One related thing that I wanted to mention at this point is that, while it seems people often think about the conscious and subconscious mind as being quite black and white, there are really a good many shades of grey between them. I've known this, about myself at least, for quite some time. I feel like, at the very top level of my consciousness, there is a super-user like process that is always active, observing and managing my all of my actions and thoughts; for example, this process is what allows me to remember things like "okay, go to your wonderland now Anon", even when my head is "cleared of all thoughts" when forcing. Underneath that I have my conscious mind, which consists of my main mindvoice that I'm using now, as well as my conscious thoughts. Underneath that is a level from which the thoughts that I transform into my mindvoice seem to bubble up from. Those thoughts in turn originate from thoughts that rise up from another level down, and so forth, until we reach the subconscious or id or whatever it's called, i.e. a level of which I am completely unaware and unable to observe. At the moment, I feel like Saya's thoughts aren't coming from quite a deep enough layer to qualify as being completely her own. I'm not really sure how to describe this in words, so here's a silly AA diagram: Ideally, I feel like Saya and I should be like this: Ｓａｙａ Ｍｅ Ｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜￣￣￣｜￣￣￣｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ Ｓｕｂｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜＿＿＿＿＿＿｜ However, right now, I feel as though we are more like this: Ｓａｙａ Ｍｅ Ｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜￣￣￣｜￣￣￣｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ Ｓｕｂｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜＿＿＿＿＿＿｜ So, we've got to drive that split down just a bit further; Saya and I are still "joined at the hip" (note that Saya denied this when I asked her about it, so I think it's probably only a problem from my point of view). My guess is that a stronger feeling of being separate will come naturally with time, and that right now I am making much ado about nothing. Still, for completeness's sake, I wanted to include this explanation here. One more thing that's worth mentioning, since this is kind of like my blog now, is that Noriko has shown an interest in tulpa making too. She says she's been talking to an imaginary friend, which is fine with me. She seems to have a natural talent for this kind of thing. I'm not sure if she read this thread or not; I suppose I'll ask her about it one of these days. If she wants to have a tulpa too, then more power to her. And wow, it is late at night and I have work tomorrow, so that's all for this wall of text!
Anon December 3, 2012 Author December 3, 2012 ***Log 10*** 2012.11.30 - Friday - Day 21 *Written on Day 24 Normal morning session today. Saya was quiet overall while we were at work, compared to the first two days after she started mindvoicing. Later, while we were in the bath, she mentioned that she'd try to cause an auditory hallucination the next night, and thought she might succeed if I could get myself into a sufficiently trance-like state by heating up my body in the bath or something similar. --- 2012.12.1 - Saturday - Day 22 *Written on Day 24 I finally brought my mp3 player to the gym to drown out sound. Tulpatone worked okay. I also noticed that Saya seems to have taken a liking to a song that happened to randomly play after the tulpatone one morning; I listened to the song on this day, and got a strong visualization of Saya flying around through empty space (Yes, she can fly, I forced this ability from the start because I figured she might as well have some kind of special power, it's easier to animate than walking, and everyone loves flying lolis anyway). While hurtling through space, Saya curved around and abruptly changed direction every few seconds in a way that seemed very random and at times hard to follow. Did a normal forcing session in the evening as well. I think I heard a faint kind of cry that might have been her, kind of an "aaaaAAAHHH!!" like yell. I didn't realize I was hearing it until it was over. I was pretty excited, but it also seems like it could have been an artifact of the tulpatone. Saya's mindvoice didn't seem certain at the time whether it was her or not; in fact, she didn't really say much of anything when I asked her, if I recall correctly. Still, I've been listening to that tone a lot, and never noticed a noise like that before. Later in the session, I noticed the tone seemed to briefly cut out, like someone flicked a mute button for about a quarter of a second. This happens occasionally, but this time it was accompanied by a strong feeling of Saya's presence, so I'm pretty sure this one was her doing. I guess she's trying to create auditory hallucinations like she said she would, which is cool. --- 2012.12.2 - Sunday - Day 23 *Written on Day 24 Went to a beer festival this day, got incredibly drunk on delicious beer, and ended up not doing a real forcing session. First missed day since I started. I did think of Saya a lot and was talking to her (probably out loud like a crazy person) while drunk. I know I heard something audible on the train back home that I thought might have been her at the time, but it was a noisy train and I may have just been hearing some other voice from around me. I don't really remember what it sounded like anyway because I was completely out of it. My memory is blank from around halfway through the journey back home until the next morning. --- 2012.12.3 - Monday - Day 24 Felt hungover in the morning and couldn't wake up for morning session. I felt kind of bad throughout the day for missing Sunday's session, and I feel like Saya wasn't talking as much as a result of it. I did talk to her a bit on my way home, and she seemed to be okay from what I could gather. Sat down a couple hours ago to do a session at night, and found that I felt too jittery and paranoid to concentrate properly. I kept opening my eyes because I felt scared to keep them closed, and I couldn't keep my concentration on Saya. I gave up after about 25 minutes, but ended up staying up late on the computer anyway. I don't know why I felt so paranoid earlier, it just happens sometimes. ***Summary 2*** Today is Day 24. I'm doing sessions of roughly 45 minutes ~ 1 hour a day, so for you people who count hours that's probably around 19 ~ 21 hours of concentrated forcing, plus another good 15 or 16 hours of casual narration while walking around and so forth. The concept of Saya has been solidified in my mind to the point that I can converse with her using mindvoice. All of the "talking" that I refer to up to this point is mindvoice; Saya doesn't actually speak to me audibly yet. She mindvoices in short sentences, and when the sentences get too long, I start to feel as though I'm parroting her part way through. The way I perceive it is that her responses usually come in one "block" of feeling, rather than a string of words. My mind transforms that feeling into words, usually fast enough that I'm not aware of the process; however, when there's too many words, I suddenly realize that I'm consciously thinking about how to phrase what Saya just tried to "say", and it stops feeling like she's doing the talking and starts feeling like I'm parroting the words for her. Saya's personality is somewhat different than I imagined, in a very good way. She has also caused a few interesting visual/audible ticks during our sessions, but no full out hallucinations yet. We're working on auditory hallucination mostly now, and of course visualization. I'm also working on widening the gap between our minds, since I feel like Saya still seems too connected to my mind (Saya apparently isn't that worried about this). Tips for getting from mindvoice to auditory hallucination would be greatly appreciated! Especially tips for people with naturally skeptical minds and/or people who've not experienced hallucinations before. (I know the forum is full of this kind of info and I have read a fair amount of it, but if any kind people would like to post their favorites that'd be cool.)
VforVendetta December 3, 2012 December 3, 2012 Ideally, I feel like Saya and I should be like this: Ｓａｙａ Ｍｅ Ｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜￣￣￣｜￣￣￣｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ Ｓｕｂｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜＿＿＿＿＿＿｜ However, right now, I feel as though we are more like this: Ｓａｙａ Ｍｅ Ｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜￣￣￣｜￣￣￣｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ ↓ ｜ ｜ Ｓｕｂｃｏｎｓｃｉｏｕｓ ｜＿＿＿＿＿＿｜ [[You have no idea how frustrating it is trying to quote from a wall of text. You're almost worse than Barktooth, Jesus.]] Anyway, I felt the same way about my tulpa, but from my experience it is generally solved through time. I'm not entirely certain how to explain it, but there has definitely been some separation between Amy and I over the past few weeks. I believe that the best thing to do in your case is to think of her as a separate being, not as yourself. This may seem simple and not worth your time, but it helped me to establish in my subconcious that Amy and I are two separate individuals. (Although we share the same mind... it's complicated.) Hope this helps! Ermahgerd Ver fer Vernderterr
Anon December 4, 2012 Author December 4, 2012 >>VforVendetta Thanks for wading through my wall of text! >it is generally solved through time. That's kind of what I was assuming/hoping to hear. Thanks for the encouragement. >the best thing to do in your case is to think of her as a separate being I've been trying to do this as much as possible. One thing I've noticed is that Saya herself, when I do manage to get proper mindvoice feedback, seems very confident in the idea of herself being a separate being. It's my own subconscious doubt that's holding us back at this point, I think. ***Log 11*** 2012.12.4 - Tuesday - Day 25 Slept in because I stayed up too late the other night, but did manage a proper session after getting home from work. We tried using the "Clairvoyant Focus v2 r2" tone for the first time, which apparently inflicts stronger effects than the normal tulpatone. I noticed while listening to it that I could hear a kind of bubbling sound, like the sound of water boiling. I also felt like the room was shaking while I had my eyes closed. I could especially feel this shaking in my legs. As for the forcing itself, it was fairly average. I didn't really find it easier or harder to stay focused. Because I'm fairly sleepy from staying up all night yesterday, I found my thoughts drifting off to random dreamlike topics a couple of times during the forcing.
VforVendetta December 4, 2012 December 4, 2012 ***Log 11*** 2012.12.4 - Tuesday - Day 25 Slept in because I stayed up too late the other night, but did manage a proper session after getting home from work. We tried using the "Clairvoyant Focus v2 r2" tone for the first time, which apparently inflicts stronger effects than the normal tulpatone. I noticed while listening to it that I could hear a kind of bubbling sound, like the sound of water boiling. I also felt like the room was shaking while I had my eyes closed. I could especially feel this shaking in my legs. As for the forcing itself, it was fairly average. I didn't really find it easier or harder to stay focused. Because I'm fairly sleepy from staying up all night yesterday, I found my thoughts drifting off to random dreamlike topics a couple of times during the forcing. So I see you've tried Clairvoyant Focus... Yeah wait until the next day or two. Your mind will start drifting off onto random tangents, you probably won't be able to stay focused, and you feel aloof throughout the day. But man, that was one hell of a trip. How long did you listen to it for? Ermahgerd Ver fer Vernderterr
Anon December 4, 2012 Author December 4, 2012 >How long did you listen to it for? About 50 minutes. I was going for the full hour but randomly blinked my eyes open after about 50 minutes and noticed that my phone was flashing with about 3 or 4 new messages and missed calls, so I stopped forcing. The strange thing is that I had my phone on my lap, so I totally should have felt it vibrating when the calls came in, but I didn't feel a thing. I guess I was more focused and/or drugged out from the clairvoyant tone than I thought? >Your mind will start drifting off onto random tangents, you probably won't be able to stay focused, and you feel aloof throughout the day. We shall see. It certainly is a rather rude and jarring sound, unlike the gentle, glassy tulpatone that I've been using normally.
Anon December 5, 2012 Author December 5, 2012 ***Log 12*** 2012.12.5 - Wednesday - Day 26 Did a normal session in the morning. Used tulpatone. Saya wasn't particularly vocal today, but did talk a bit. Nothing that special to report.
Anon December 6, 2012 Author December 6, 2012 ***Log 13*** 2012.12.6 - Thursday - Day 27 Again, fairly normal day, again, nothing much to report. During morning session I suddenly heard my tone go silent for a split second and got excited, but I realized afterward that the charger cable had come undone from my mp3 player while forcing, and that that's probably what caused the cut out.
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