Tulpaforcing with mental health issues [and other questions].

[Guest Anonymous]

First things first. This is my first post on this board, but I actually read about tulpae about a year ago. And don't worry, I tried to do some research before I made this thread.

 

Now to the actual story:

I made two attempts at creating a tulpa and failed both times, but not because I wasn't motivated enough, but I think because of my mental health.

I'm diagnosed with a personality disorder and I get minor paranoid episodes [and I mean minor] sometimes, but I didn't think that would get in my way. But it probably did.

 

When I tried forcing for the first time, I started with appearance. I don't know which guide I used, but the one I used stated that this was the best way, so I went for it.

My imagination is quite good, so it didn't take me long to feel her presence. Well, not physically, but it was like I was no longer alone. I also think she started to talk very soon, at least in my mind, but maybe she didn't and it was just wishful thinking, but whatever. It was something.

So, at this point I went to sleep one night and woke up in the middle of the night with a horrible feeling in my guts. It was like someone standing right beside me and staring me down. I don't believe in anything paranormal, so my first association wasn't ghosts, aliens or anything like that, but hallucination. I swear, I never hallucinated in my life before. Not even on the few occasions I came in contact with recreational drugs. And I know my mental health isn't the best, but I NEVER saw, heard or felt something that wasn't there [and I am not counting my tulpa results, because she was mostly present in my mind only]. Well, until then that is.

I had to turn the lights on and couldn't sleep for the rest of the night because I was so spooked, even if there wasn't anything to see or hear, just the feeling of being looked at... and some... evil presence. And I feel really stupid because this sounds like I am talking about demons...

 

I condemned all my efforts and stopped forcing, because suddenly I was really afraid of hallucinating, even if it was something I created myself. I mean, I really loved the idea and I still love it, but I just couldn't do it any more. The idea of seeing, hearing and feeling someone who wasn't really there creeped me out beyond belief.

 

A few months later, I think it was last December, I tried again. This time I used another approach, forming the personality first. It was quite simple to imagine someone being around me all the time. I would talk to her in my mind all the time, I would imagine her sleeping on my bed next to me...

At first everything was awesome. It made me happy to have her. But then something happened. Again.

It was practically the same as last time. The mood suddenly changed and I felt something "evil" in my head/mind/whatever. It did not feel like my tulpa turned evil or something, but it was like I accidently freed some very weird part of my subconscious...

 

So, to sum my problem up:

- I am quite fucked up and have some repressed memories and a personality disorder.

- The two times I really tried tulpaforcing turned out to be quite scary for some reason

- I don't know what I did wrong

 

 

My main theory is that the contact to my subconscious triggered some feelings I had repressed or something. I don't believe that my tulpa turned creepypasta on me and tried to murder me and my family. I just think I might be to fucked up to have one... but that's just a theory.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Jabre]

Well this is interesting. What kind of personality disorders?

 

I can easily wish these 'terror tulpa' problems away by telling you it is sleep paralysis, which is a disorder that causes people to experience REM atonia (paralyzation during sleep) even after or before they awaken. Has this happened frequently? Are you ever unable to move for a short time after these events? However, for the sake of having an interesting thread, let's assume it's not isolated sleep paralysis.

 

What specific memory are you repressing? You won't be able to fully remember it if it was able to be a problem with your psyche, but just humor me. Tell me an emotion about it. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine too.

 

There could be many, many things going on. At the top of my head, I have to say an anima and animus neurosis, since your tulpa is female. Is the personality disorder related to anxiety or mood by any chance? It could also equally be some other problem... It could be, like you said, unconscious glitching. This can be very common in tulpas actually. Like almost every problem, you have to isolate it and destroy it. I can't tell you how based off of this information alone, though.

[tania]

I havent shared what happened with my first Tulpa at this site and wasnt planning to do so as its too strange even for me but will do so due to your post, maybe this has happened to others too.

 

The same kind of thing happen with my first Tulpa and it's why things were stopped with her, it wasnt her thou which appeared. I was aware of my Tulpas presence and where she was standing as my Tupla was in the room at the time too, when this other appeared and appeared fully imposed one could say, she was very clear to see and hear.

 

I was fully awake when this happened (it wasnt any where near my sleep time)..actually on my feet when she appeared in the room with me, after my intitial shock, I backed up in fear when the other started chanting (she started this up nearly as soon as she appeared which made everything go very static (hairs on my arms stood up, the chant felt powerful). She then grabbed my Tulpa (seemed to have some power over her, the chant seemed to have paralysed my Tulpa) and they vanished. I was afraid to even try to communicate with my Tulpa after that and believed her gone. I wasnt going to mess with "whatever" that female was, she was scary and I felt like she knew more then me.

 

Ive only recently started to get back into this stuff, its taken me almost 10 years to get over the scare I had. *Note.. I'd never halluncinated, nor did I have mental health issues.

 

I now wonder if the other was another Tulpa hiding out in my subconsciousness all along.. from where?.. I dont know but I did have reoccurring dreams as a child for a long time where I was being chased by a wicked witch. Maybe my thoughts of that witch as a child formed a evil Tulpa? which has hidden in me all my life????? IF so, maybe that took my first Tulpa and has kept her hidden from me? (Im still too afraid to attempt to contact my first Tulpa as I just dont know what happened..that scary unknown).

 

So maybe I have these two other Tulpas inside of me? My first which I believed was taken and the one who did the kidnapping? Ive had two weird things happen since Ive started making Jesse which "could" point to that being the case, including seeing two tall females wearing violet capes in his wonderland (I was like WTF are those here for!! seeing two others there so shocked me)and I first found out my current Tulpas name before I'd heard it from him himself, due to a female voice which clearly wasnt at all my own inner voice saying "Im going to play with Jesse". Both those things are strange and I have no other explaination for.

 

Im going to delve into this once Jesse and I are communicating very well (he's talking but I want him talking more before I try to solve the past mystery of my missing Tulpa and what occurred 10 years ago) but right now till then.. the whole thing still worries me. This whole thing has affected how I've made Jesse.

 

Ive purposely made him weak in some ways as I thought my first Tulpas power.. being an angel with all those qualities, she was pure love, may of attracted the other who took her. I also programmed into him to suicide if another ever grabbed him and tried to take him away from me (I see him as part of me so didnt want him to be under anothers control like I thought happened with my first Tulpa). This unfortunatly caused issues which I hadnt thought about before it happened as he then developed big mortality fears days within days of me trying to imprint that on him, the self destruct (never try to program a Tulpa to suicide if something is going to go wrong, as it freaks them out!!). I then had to do something I didnt want to do and alter his personality to get rid of his fear which was horribly going all throu me and giving me the jitters and anxiety. His emotions started wrecking me.. I couldnt focus on anything due to the anxiety which wasnt mine.. I went throu a horrendous several hours due to it (and him too) till I changed his personality so the thought of death wouldnt worry him.

 

Anyway.. Its being quite a ride for me one could say, all cause of the scary incident I had involving my first Tulpa.

 

If that other does prove out to be some kind of evil Tulpa.. well that probably worries me less then some kind of supernatural cause to what occurred. At least then the past incident would be explained.

 

This is one of the reasons why I tell people to make really sure they want to start making a Tulpa before getting into this stuff as quite strange things can happen, things one would NEVER in a million years think would happen to them, things you may not even have in your reality of possibly occuring. (I went seeking healers after loosing my first Tulpa as I was worried that the one who took her could throu her have a connection to me and hence be there secretly affecting or influencing me).

 

The whole WEIRD incident just scared me so much. Its one of the reasons why I disagree very much with children making Tulpas as one just doesnt know what "could" occur. (note I wasnt a child when this happened but around my early 30s).

 

Feel free to pm me if you run into more issues... sounds like you like myself have some previous strange issues to deal with or work out before we are in the clear with all smooth sailing with this stuff. I'd love to have someone to share with if I experience more weirdness, as right now I dont feel comfortable really talking about it much to others at this site as I know its all hard for people to believe and the last thing which you or I or others with strange issues need is others not believing us or making fun of the problems we've run into. Till your post, Id thought I was the only one here trying to deal with weird stuff like this.

 

Ive made a decision not to run from anything strange which occurs this time, Ive made a deal with myself that Im going to get to the bottom of it all and figure it out.

 

ps I suggest to make sure your Tulpa carries the traits of wisdom and intellegence (they arent the same thing) to help you try to figure it all out.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well this is interesting. What kind of personality disorders?

 

I'd rather not tell right now, but it's a cluster B personality disorder.

 

I can easily wish these 'terror tulpa' problems away by telling you it is sleep paralysis, which is a disorder that causes people to experience REM atonia (paralyzation during sleep) even after or before they awaken. Has this happened frequently? Are you ever unable to move for a short time after these events? However, for the sake of having an interesting thread, let's assume it's not isolated sleep paralysis.

 

It's most definitely not sleep paralysis. I had that once and it was quite scary, but those two times I wasn't even paralysed to begin with. And one of two times I wasn't even sleeping... So you got your interesting thread.

 

 

What specific memory are you repressing? You won't be able to fully remember it if it was able to be a problem with your psyche, but just humor me. Tell me an emotion about it. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine too.

 

I don't get what you want to tell me with this, but just for the sake of completeness, here goes nothing:

I was sexually abused as a child, over a course of four years. I don't remember any details, I just have hints that point to this conclusion.

So, yes, I do remember something, but there are no emotions connected to this incident. Well, there are, but when I start to talk about this, I start to dissociate and disconnect myself from my emotions. It still feels like I'm talking about someone else when it comes to this.

The only emotion connected to this is probably guilt and/or shame. But I guess that's quite common when it comes to sexual abuse.

 

There could be many, many things going on. At the top of my head, I have to say an anima and animus neurosis, since your tulpa is female. Is the personality disorder related to anxiety or mood by any chance? It could also equally be some other problem... It could be, like you said, unconscious glitching. This can be very common in tulpas actually. Like almost every problem, you have to isolate it and destroy it. I can't tell you how based off of this information alone, though.

 

Just to make things clear. I am female. So if you trust Jung, I shouldn't have an anima that could get in conflict with my female tulpa... am I right? I was never much into psychoanalysis. My problems were never about sleeping with my parents... And yes, I know that this comment was mocking stereotypes, but psychoanalysis most certainly isn't my kind of therapy. Believe me. I tried it.

 

My personality disorder may or may not be connected to anxiety and mood. I am not trying to be cryptic here, I am just not sure. Besides my depression that somehow came with the deal, I don't really feel anything because I made quite an effort to disconnect myself from my feelings. It's not that I have none, it's just complicated when it comes to feelings.

 

I am not sure what you mean by tulpa glitching.

 

I havent shared what happened with my first Tulpa at this site and wasnt planning to do so as its too strange even for me but will do so due to your post, maybe this has happened to others too.

 

The same kind of thing happen with my first Tulpa and it's why things were stopped with her, it wasnt her thou which appeared. I was aware of my Tulpas presence and where she was standing as my Tupla was in the room at the time too, when this other appeared and appeared fully imposed one could say, she was very clear to see and hear.

 

First, I'm kinda glad other people have experienced this stuff or at least something similar. Well, I am not glad that weird stuff happens to other people, but I guess you get my point.

 

I think I have to clarify a few things.

1. I don't think that it was my Tulpa staring me down. It felt like a female person, but it wasn't her. Or at least it wasn't what I thought she was. I couldn't see her, but still that entity hat a different "look" to it. It looked human, like my Tulpa, but it still was not her. [i mean, my Tulpa's presence always felt nice and the "demon tulpa"s presence just felt... bad, evil and wrong... if that even makes sense...]

2. I didn't see the other woman. I just felt her. When I closed my eyes, I could see her in my mind and she stood right there, in the mental image of my room, next to my bed, staring at me. She had black hair and I guess black or red eyes. I don't even know if they really had those weird colours, or I just associated her eyes with those colours for obvious reasons.

So, when I opened my eyes, there was nothing. Just this feeling I could not shake...

 

I was fully awake when this happened (it wasnt any where near my sleep time)..actually on my feet when she appeared in the room with me, after my intitial shock, I backed up in fear when the other started chanting (she started this up nearly as soon as she appeared which made everything go very static (hairs on my arms stood up, the chant felt powerful). She then grabbed my Tulpa (seemed to have some power over her, the chant seemed to have paralysed my Tulpa) and they vanished. I was afraid to even try to communicate with my Tulpa after that and believed her gone. I wasnt going to mess with "whatever" that female was, she was scary and I felt like she knew more then me.

 

Okay, this is on the one hand a little different, but still related on the other. Whatever happened, it kept us from our tulpae. Or took them away. I don't know.

I guess after that incident I stopped feeling mine. Well, I wasn't really eager to feel her, though, because I was afraid she might have changed. Or even if she had not changed, this whole hallucination thing started to scare me.

The third theory is that she was never there to begin with and I was just making stuff up. And then a part of my mind used this tulpa stuff to scare me. [This is something that happens quite frequently. When I am stressed, it gets hard to concentrate and when it gets really bad, random images of creepy children or something like that pop up in my head... It's annoying, because if it happens, it's like trying not to think about a pink elephant...]

 

The second time it happened I made a pony tulpa. Yes, laugh at me, I don't care. I'm a brony. And since I was still scared that tulpae could turn evil, I chose something so cute and adorable, that it couldn't possibly scare me.

Well, this time [last December] nothing really scared me, but suddenly I felt creeped out by... everything. I got paranoid and just like that Feather [that was her name] had dissapeared. She wasn't vocal and still talking nonsense. I couldn't see her or anything, but I could feel her. Yeah, maybe still just wishful thinking, but it was nice talking to her. I loved her dearly and now that I think about her, I still do somehow.

And then she was gone and I still don't know why. I hadn't stopped forcing or anything. I just stopped feeling her. Like I said, I just felt something creepy and uncanny...

 

 

Ive only recently started to get back into this stuff, its taken me almost 10 years to get over the scare I had. *Note.. I'd never halluncinated, nor did I have mental health issues.

 

I would love to get back into it but I never did. Maybe I will someday, when I have figured this out. Maybe I will start tomorrow. Who knows. I just want to know how I can deal with stuff like this.

 

I now wonder if the other was another Tulpa hiding out in my subconsciousness all along.. from where?.. I dont know but I did have reoccurring dreams as a child for a long time where I was being chased by a wicked witch. Maybe my thoughts of that witch as a child formed a evil Tulpa? which has hidden in me all my life????? IF so, maybe that took my first Tulpa and has kept her hidden from me? (Im still too afraid to attempt to contact my first Tulpa as I just dont know what happened..that scary unknown).

 

I had a similar thought. I never had dreams about wicked witches or anything, but there was the guy who abused me. But that's the point. He was a guy.

But then again: Even before I started forcing, it always felt like I carried some part of him around. That might sound crazy, but it makes sense. I don't have the patience to explain this, but it is quite common in different psychologic theories.

 

 

So maybe I have these two other Tulpas inside of me? My first which I believed was taken and the one who did the kidnapping? Ive had two weird things happen since Ive started making Jesse which "could" point to that being the case, including seeing two tall females wearing violet capes in his wonderland (I was like WTF are those here for!! seeing two others there so shocked me)and I first found out my current Tulpas name before I'd heard it from him himself, due to a female voice which clearly wasnt at all my own inner voice saying "Im going to play with Jesse". Both those things are strange and I have no other explaination for.

 

Sounds quite scary, yes. This never happened to me, but I can imagine how that feels... o_O

 

Ive purposely made him weak in some ways as I thought my first Tulpas power.. being an angel with all those qualities, she was pure love, may of attracted the other who took her. I also programmed into him to suicide if another ever grabbed him and tried to take him away from me (I see him as part of me so didnt want him to be under anothers control like I thought happened with my first Tulpa). This unfortunatly caused issues which I hadnt thought about before it happened as he then developed big mortality fears days within days of me trying to imprint that on him, the self destruct (never try to program a Tulpa to suicide if something is going to go wrong, as it freaks them out!!). I then had to do something I didnt want to do and alter his personality to get rid of his fear which was horribly going all throu me and giving me the jitters and anxiety. His emotions started wrecking me.. I couldnt focus on anything due to the anxiety which wasnt mine.. I went throu a horrendous several hours due to it (and him too) till I changed his personality so the thought of death wouldnt worry him.

 

Funny thing that my mental image for my new tulpa [if I ever give it a new try] is an angel. Well, he is based of Castiel from Supernatural [based off, not a carbon copy, that is]. Sounds weird, I know, but I think he is my archetype for my protector. And that's exactly what I need.

All my other tulpae were female and rather shy and quiet. I liked that about them and I think I tried to make them... harmless. Especially Feather was rather weak, maybe because I was afraid something could happen if I gave her some kind of power over me...

 

If that other does prove out to be some kind of evil Tulpa.. well that probably worries me less then some kind of supernatural cause to what occurred. At least then the past incident would be explained.

 

Like I think I mentioned, I don't really believe in anything paranormal, so I think it's much more likely to be something that is wrong with me, rather than my surroundings.

 

This is one of the reasons why I tell people to make really sure they want to start making a Tulpa before getting into this stuff as quite strange things can happen, things one would NEVER in a million years think would happen to them, things you may not even have in your reality of possibly occuring. (I went seeking healers after loosing my first Tulpa as I was worried that the one who took her could throu her have a connection to me and hence be there secretly affecting or influencing me).

 

The whole WEIRD incident just scared me so much. Its one of the reasons why I disagree very much with children making Tulpas as one just doesnt know what "could" occur. (note I wasnt a child when this happened but around my early 30s).

 

Well, I knew that doing this wasn't going to be all fine and dandy, but I was most seriously not expecting this. I hope I'll manage though.

 

Feel free to pm me if you run into more issues... sounds like you like myself have some previous strange issues to deal with or work out before we are in the clear with all smooth sailing with this stuff. I'd love to have someone to share with if I experience more weirdness, as right now I dont feel comfortable really talking about it much to others at this site as I know its all hard for people to believe and the last thing which you or I or others with strange issues need is others not believing us or making fun of the problems we've run into. Till your post, Id thought I was the only one here trying to deal with weird stuff like this.

 

Ive made a decision not to run from anything strange which occurs this time, Ive made a deal with myself that Im going to get to the bottom of it all and figure it out.

 

ps I suggest to make sure your Tulpa carries the traits of wisdom and intellegence (they arent the same thing) to help you try to figure it all out.

 

Thanks for your offer and the advice. (:

[glitchthe3rd]

If I had to guess it might be something to do with your shadow. Doesn't seem like your disorder is getting in the way of things.

[Jabre]

The same kind of thing happen with my first Tulpa and it's why things were stopped with her, it wasnt her thou which appeared. I was aware of my Tulpas presence and where she was standing as my Tupla was in the room at the time too, when this other appeared and appeared fully imposed one could say, she was very clear to see and hear.

 

Interesting. Usually it takes time for tulpas to impose clearly, meaning that this is a hallucination. This mental entity was from the unconscious because of this, also meaning that it is growing in sentience and attempting to 'get out' so to speak.

 

I dont know but I did have reoccurring dreams as a child for a long time where I was being chased by a wicked witch. Maybe my thoughts of that witch as a child formed a evil Tulpa?

 

I went through something extremely similar to this.

 

So maybe I have these two other Tulpas inside of me? My first which I believed was taken and the one who did the kidnapping?

 

Again, something very alike has occurred to me and my tulpa. I believe that a persona that was previously unconscious has been brought up. If so, then it would be another tulpa.

 

 

I was sexually abused as a child, over a course of four years. I don't remember any details, I just have hints that point to this conclusion.

So, yes, I do remember something, but there are no emotions connected to this incident. Well, there are, but when I start to talk about this, I start to dissociate and disconnect myself from my emotions. It still feels like I'm talking about someone else when it comes to this.

The only emotion connected to this is probably guilt and/or shame. But I guess that's quite common when it comes to sexual abuse.

 

That is very strange: usually, those that dissociate various egos (which is what a tulpa and DID is) black out during their undertaking, and the ego cannot be superimposed like tulpas. Tulpas are intentional dissociation, which allows more effects (for reasons I do not understand). I believe that presence near your tulpa was involuntarily made, which means that your case an anomaly. Both of you have malevolent extra tulpas. I have dream characters that know that they are a dream character. Some are friendly, some try to kill me, but I have received threats from some of them to my tulpa and I am in the process of imposing one of them (a good one).

 

 

Just to make things clear. I am female. So if you trust Jung, I shouldn't have an anima that could get in conflict with my female tulpa... am I right? I was never much into psychoanalysis. My problems were never about sleeping with my parents... And yes, I know that this comment was mocking stereotypes, but psychoanalysis most certainly isn't my kind of therapy. Believe me. I tried it.

 

Don't worry, the Oedipus bullshit and psychoanalysis have little to do with Jung, but yes I get your point. I can rule anima out. I think both of you have an extra tulpa.

 

My IRL friend also has a tulpa, but his first one went psycho and tried to possess him and kill somebody (obviously, it wasn't even close to working). He has a new tulpa, but these strange people appeared in the wonderland and harass him and his tulpa. I am currently helping him get rid of them. It is very similar to what you guys have. When my tulpa tried to kill herself, she said she went into 'the dark.' I was asking this female character who appeared where my dream guide that I wanted to impose went and she said 'the dark.' I was so confused. Me and my friend both seem to have extra-tulpa problems, and every time I try talking about it on the forums, people say that I am making it up, or that I'm a RPer and stuff.

[Space Cat]

I had a moment late at night where I had the uncanny feeling of being watched, similar to what several of you guys described here. It was so strong that I got the whole "chills, skin crawling, hair stands up" feeling. However, that's only happened once since I started tulpaforcing.

 

So I can sympathize with the threatened feelings of being watched. That's about as far as my weird experiences go, though.

[glitchthe3rd]

Regarding the thing about animus/anima. If OP is a female, she would have an animus. And Jung is rolling over in his grave right now at whoever said he uses psychoanalysis. That's Freud's province, and it was one of the main reasons Jung broke away from Freud's methodology.

[Jabre]

Regarding the thing about animus/anima. If OP is a female, she would have an animus.

 

Yes, but according to Jung, when an unstable male relays his emotions ("letting out his repressed anima"), it challenges his masculinity and causes him to periodically outbreak a lot like bipolar, but less severe. The animus would act differently as he said. I originally thought that OP's "evil presence" might be just a fragmentation of the repressed anima, but since she is a girl, her anima isn't repressed, an she has an animus as you said. But still, it is unlikely OP's problem has anything to do with Jungian psychology, because I just brought it up since I thought OP was a guy for some reason. And, since she was abused, it most likely points to simply an unwanted extra tulpa.

[tania]

Thanks heaps Jabre for sharing your experience with this stuff too. Im curious what you did about your extra Tupla which interfered with things? and how are you helping your friend on IRL get rid of the intrusions coming into the Wonderland? I have ideas on how to get rid of things but wonder what others are doing about things like this. I'll see if I can find your journal to read as Im quite interested in your experiences.

 

Im currently not going to try to get rid of anything either till I work out exactly what is going on or if things took an actual very hostile turn (thou when I saw these others in Jesse's wonderland I did later choose to imagine a huge hand grabbing them and throwing them out of it with force. I treated them as if I would a character of my lucid dreaming in a place I didnt want them to be). The one who took my Tulpa didnt actually threaten me, she just did what she did which was enough to really scare me and make me feel very threatened. I see her as hostile/evil just from intruding and stealing my other and scaring me so but maybe she isnt? (depends on ones definition of what evil is). I dont want to mess with more then I have to without having the knowledge of all the facts.

 

I didnt have Anonymous's issue of feeling threatened at all of my first Tulpa at all and had made that Tulpa (it was supposed to be a servitor but it went Tulpa) as strong as I could (just was threatened by the unknown other), so interestingly had done the complete opposite to what Anonymous did with hers.

 

Anonymous.. I'd like to say to you that I do have a similar past as you with child sexual abuse with repressed memories. I only knew about the abuse due to just a "knowing" there I was abused (but I couldnt remember thou what had even been done to me nor did I feel the feelings to do with it and I have no idea who the perpertrator was). This was then more confirmed to me about 7? years ago when I suddenly had an intense flash back (the only one Ive had) of myself when about 3? years old and suddenly relived an oral sexual abuse experience where someone had me down on a bed (relived due to a trigger event, someone layed me down on a bad in the same manner and suddenly flashback with all the emotions I'd never remembered), as if it was happening again. Not painful but very yucky feeling as even at my young age I knew something wasnt right about it at the time. The flashback was quite distressing. Hopefully that is all there was to my young age sexual abuse.

 

I dont think thou that has anything at all to do with what I experienced with the Tulpa and I dont feel at all traumatised by the sex abuse which Im sure was done by a male and not a female (Ive never felt a need to have any therapy over it-How would one even have therapy over something they cant remember and cant emotionally feel?- but would have to do so if I started getting regular flashbacks).